Mallard

As far as replacing the gas tax..do you really feel any current tax plan would be revoked?

No, I don't think the gas tax will ever go away, and it will most likely need to increase as fuel economy goes up and we try to shift to renwables.

But I also don't think it's a guarantee that every bro dozer out there will get double taxed. There definitely has to be a solution in place before mass adoption of EVs takes place. Maybe it will still end up being higher registration fees. Maybe not. That's what the study is for.

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First what is there to not trust? 26,000*$0.08=$2,080 Simple math. No there is not a proposal but to begin the discussion and look at numbers, you have to start somewhere.

What's not to trust is, even as you said, there is no proposal on how much per mile to charge, there's not even a proposal for whether everyone would pay the same rate (based on type of vehicle, where you live, what roads you drive on, etc), or whether this would completely replace the gas tax or be in addition to it where implemented. Yet this "news" station is presenting this (and people here are too) as if it's a government estimate going into this trial. People on here are even acting like it's a done deal and there's a new tax on every citizen, while this is a study using volunteers where no one is being charged anything. These studies typically take years before presenting any findings, so a decision will most likely not even fall under this current administration.

I like my news to be FACTS, not made up bullshit that's only meant to rile up a base. If there is a source for this 8 cents per mile estimate, then I would like to see it. So far I haven't found anything.

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Can we not?

 

"wE WoNt TaX tHe PoOr"

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684/text?fbclid=IwAR3eOJXCqYcZ7f0DtQ9TG_XNa37GfogzFk8PPM5tpMyI1WpoAiYaBrAC13c

Everything I've read says that what was approved is a pilot program to study the viability of a mileage tax that will be made up of volunteers who will carry GPS monitors in their vehicles. These types of pilot programs happen all the time for other things, like V2X communication, driver monitoring tech, AEB, etc. This is not an approval to implement a mileage tax.

There has been no proposal from the gov on how much to charge per mile, if everyone gets charged the same fee, or if this completely replaces the gas tax because those are the questions the pilot program is supposed to answer. IMO, this Newsmax story is just fear mongering, and it appears to be working. Stop living in fear.

P.S. They used 26,000 miles a year? Isn't the average more like ~12,000?

It's all you, Clay

I did find a clean looking Dodge Stealth R/T TT in this range today. It's tempting but I know it could also be a basket case.

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It's been fun watching he and Emilia battle back and forth. TJ Hunt thinks he's gonna take the record soon too.

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Biden’s admin kills 10 civilians in afghan - mainstream media….meh.

 

If trump did that, impeachment #7 would be voted on Immediately

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-civilian-idUSKBN22I2X3

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/papers/2020/AirstrikesAfghanistan

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The problem I have with "taxation is theft" is that even hardcore libertarians concede that some government is necessary (K-8 schools, national defense, etc). And if that's true, then some form of taxes need to be levied to pay for it. And once you've conceded that some taxation is necessary, then it stands to reason that if taxation is theft, then some theft is necessary. And what has that accomplished other than diluting the meaning of the word "theft."

 

Thoughts?

Maybe the military should start a Go Fund Me.

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Holy crap! That's mint.

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Genesis Coupe wasn't on your list, was it? It doesn't get a ton of love but that does mean prices stay low...

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I realize this is just a meme, but can you explain to me how someone "takes care of their immune system" such that they don't get sick, or in the extreme case are immune from COVID?

I ask this because I see this phrase commonly thrown around in my Facebook community pages, including one of the anti-vax anti-mask moms on our school pages who claims that because she and her kids don't wear masks and go out to socialize with people (restaurants, parties, etc) that they are "exercising their immune system" so that it is strong and they won't get sick. There seems to be this group of people that believe that all they need to do is take Vit C, D, and roll around in the dirt in order to not get sick. It's too bad that the ~700k dead people didn't just take their daily vitamins.

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I'm assuming Clay is talking about post-COVID, when prices go back to normal. Nothing good can be purchased for under $6k right now, as far as I'm concerned. The market is a complete shit-show.

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Yes it does. Dying from COVID and dying from getting shot in the face with a 12g while having COVID are very different. Getting your head blown off should not go into the "COVID death" category.

But if you got shot in the face COVID would/should not be listed on the death certificate unless it was a condition that led to being shot in the face...which is, uh, highly unlikely. You'd have to ask a real medical examiner how they would list this if someone committed suicide while having COVID.

STILL, my point is that if these cases exist they are the outlier. There are people that claim only 13,000 people have died of COVID and that all the counted deaths are due to falsified death certificates. The data overwhelmingly shows that COVID deaths are very likely undercounted by a lot. We should not minimize the severity of COVID and those who have died from it by giving credence to this disproved conspiracy theory.

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And this just popped up on reddit:

 

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I guess I was spoiled by the vaccines we received as kids..1 shot and you're done..that is how I view a vaccine.

 

 

 

These others are shots that must be re-administered every several months to keep up.

 

 

 

Sorry it's my word prejudice.

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From a "driving in the twisties" perspective:

 

NC (06-15) Miata -- These were dipping into the 6k range pre-COVID. NA/NB prices have started trending upward and I don't see them coming back down (for clean examples), and while the NC is finally starting to see some love, it's still a bit of a black sheep in the Miata world.

 

00-05 MR2 -- Not as plentiful as the Miata, but was a sub-$10k car pre-COVID and if you weren't picky you could get them in your price range

 

Scion FR-S -- was easily sub-10k pre-COVID, but it's still a "newish" car and I never saw them for 6.

 

 

Of that least, 2 don't have back seats and one doesn't have a sunroof or targa, and the 'verts would require a rollbar to be trackday legal. Aren't I helpful?

I looked for clean MR2's and FRS's for a while (trying for same price range as Clay) and can't find anything. All the FRS/BRZ's that I find want $12k+. All the MR2's are rusty piles of junk under $10k.

Clay, FWIW, I've been looking for the same thing. I've seen a few 2nd gen Audi TT's (one has a slipping trans so unsure about that), first gen IS300's and BMW 335i coupes are in that range too. Lots of G35/350Z's. I've tried to find a decent Lexus GS300/400 but most up here are ragged out.

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I believe that would/should be listed as Blunt Force Trauma with underlying cause being able to be argued as COVID/Hypoxia. Cause of death is the final action, the straw that broke the camels back... the death blow. The causes listed are relatively immediate medical causes, but the ultimate cause of death might be described differently.

I would agree.

The death certificate lists a) Immediate cause of death, and b), c), and d) conditions leading to immediate cause, underlying cause, and/or disease or injury that initiated events resulting in death.

This is why COVID-19 is listed in b), c), or d), but it does not mean that it shouldn't be counted as a COVID death.

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Already in end of life care, fell out of bed under care of nursing facilities and for the most part immobalized and then died of covid just because we gotta get those numbers up people!

Additionally, it's easy to look from a far and say that someone who dies from a fall shouldn't be listed as a COVID death, or be confused (or worse, tell people there is malicious intent) as to why it's being tallied that way, but there are legitimate reasons why that can be the case.

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This is 100% true, my sister in law is a nurse in Ohio and was reassigned to handle critical patients during the worst of it last year and saw exactly this constantly. They had 100+ yr old people die from head injuries from falls and were mark COVID death among other things where people were already terminal.

FWIW, the day after my dad was diagnosed he got up in the middle of the night and went to the bathroom. He said he was feeling pretty bad and wanted to take an ibuprofen. Well, he passed out on the way and hit his head on the way down. Luckily my mom heard the fall in the middle of the night (she was staying in another room) and called the squad. He got 7 staples in his head.

So if he had died from the fall, what would be the cause of death? Bleeding to death while laying unconscious and/or completely disoriented? Blunt force trauma? In reality COVID would be listed as a contributing factor, since the fall was caused by a lack of oxygen due to COVID.

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We have been asked to vaccinate, we have not been mandated. We have also never been made to carry a passport to prove any medical status to enter a restaurant, purchase tickets, etc. We have not had businesses face legal repercussions for employing people that do not comply. Nazi Germany did not occur overnight. The party started in 1920. The war started in 1939. 19 years they grew before they became a problem that needed dealt with. First Jews just needed to identify themselves. Then it was adding markers to their papers. Then It was carrying papers. Then it was wearing arm bands and sewing stars on their clothing. Do I think that the vaccine hesitant (we aren't anti) are being forced into train cars to be sent off to camps? No. Do I think this is a dangerous slope? Yes. There has already been talk have the need to have the vaccinated easily identified with a mark on their clothing. There are places you have to prove it with a passport. There are places only allowed to be entered by those people. Their are financial penalties for not complying. There are rewards for turning in your peers. Do you think that in 1925, 1930, that most of Germany understood where they were headed? What freedoms are okay to lose? What mandates are okay? If it is so good, why are some people exempt?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First they came for the Communists

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a Communist

 

 

 

Then they came for the Socialists

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a Socialist

 

 

 

Then they came for the trade unionists

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a trade unionist

 

 

 

Then they came for the Jews

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a Jew

 

 

 

Then they came for me

 

And there was no one left

 

To speak out for me

In past pandemics you did have to show proof of vaccination in order to get into certain places. The difference was with the smallpox vaccine you were left with a scar, so you'd just be asked to roll up your sleeve. And yes, back then people were selling fake scars to stick on, much like people are doing now with vaccine cards. During the Spanish Flu people were required to wear masks in order to go places.

This is nothing like the beginnings of Nazi Germany, and I find it repulsive that people compare it to that while saying nothing about Trump's authoritarianism, his cult following that turn violent against their own country, his vilification of immigrants and refugees, his vilification of anyone who disagrees with him (whether Democrat or being labeled a RINO and pushing someone out of the party), Georgia and Texas's new voting laws (among other states now copying it), or Texas's new abortion law.

You say there are rewards for turning in people for being unvaccinated, but I'm not sure what you're even referring to. Maybe you could explain that, because all I'm aware of is people being turned in for selling or using fake vaccination cards, which is fraud. Compare that to $10k any one can get for turning in someone they even think had an abortion, or even the person who drove them to a doctor's office.

The policies around COVID are the same as have been practiced in the US in the past and present when working to control viruses. This is nothing like Nazi Germany, and if people are so concerned with resembling the Nazi's they should be more cognizant of the alt-right politicians they have elected and continue to worship.

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Looks like a Cheetah

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We're not allowed to like each other.

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Not cast doubt. Ask questions, ask for transparency, ask for time and answers. These are all showing examples of how our knowledge is changing with time and asking what more we will learn with time. First it was 2 weeks and masks will fix it. Then it was a 90% effective vaccine. Now it is a 60% effective vaccine that causes some side effects. What will we know after a full study? What will we know after peer reviews? What will we know after reviewing data and cleaning up numbers that were compiled in a panicked frenzy?

This reads like a Tucker Carlson transcript.

He's always just asking questions (often times that already have answers) for the sole purpose of casting doubt.

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When does the vaccine passport become a yellow arm band? There is only one side trying to force anyone to do anything. The other side just wants education and options.

I hate the false equivalency the Right is trying to make about vaccines and Nazi Germany. This is nowhere close. We have all been forced to vaccinate ourselves and our children for school and travel for many, many years. George Washington was responsible for the first vaccine mandate in the US, changing his mind after he saw how badly it would affect his army. Do not belittle the experiences of the Holocaust by equating it to an anti vaxxer 'struggle.'

That said, the 'other side' does not just want education and opinions. Look at FL and TX making laws and punishments against masks (among other things). They're putting mandates in place too, just on the opposite side, making it that much more difficult to change course based on data, or for an organization to determine their own countermeasures based on their determination of risk.

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https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/

 

 

 

There are tons of numbers from tons of sites. There is where the 80.1% came from.

 

 

 

I agree risk stacking works. Again flip side of the coin. A non-mask wearer who frequently washes their hands, isn't constantly touching their face, etc. against Karen yelling at you about your mask while she half wears her unwashed fabric peace mask while touching everything in site. There are extremes on both sides. I think there is a time and place for everything. Do i think there should be 100k screaming maskless fans in a stadium? No. Do I think it is a big deal to walk down an empty aisle in my local gas station to grab a candy bar? Also, no.

Vaccination

 

Israel has administered at least^14,511,866^doses of COVID vaccines so far. Assuming every person needs 2 doses, that’s enough to have vaccinated about^80.1%^of the country’s population.

 

^About this data

 

This vaccine rollout data is reported by the number of doses of coronavirus vaccines administered,^not^the number of people who have been vaccinated. Because most vaccines require two doses and many countries have different schedules to deliver the second dose, we don’t know with this data how many people have ultimately received both doses.

So it's admittedly inaccurate, knowing that a large portion of those who have received 2 doses have already got a 3rd (the chart I attached earlier)

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Israel has administered 14,511,866 doses. That is enough for 80.1% of the population to receive 2 shots. Not 80.1% of the eligible population but, the total population.

 

 

 

To look at your exact words "Recommendations are made based on data, data is gathered through studies that take time, and those studies can be run in different ways, and results must be peer reviewed." That is all many of us are asking for is time. We want people to have the freedom to do as they choose. We want to see the data from studies. We want to see them run different ways. We want them to be peer reviewed. Sadly, those wants make us the devil incarnate and means that we are wishing death on our fellow humans and that we think this all a hoax. In reality, I just don't want to be the subject of the next commercial asking "Did you take the vaccine in 2020? Are you experiencing _____? Call Lawyer XYZ now!" After watching my Dad take FDA approved Humira for psoriasis and then have to fight for months to get a doctor to take his complaints serious only to find out he had developed cancer. The drug was FDA approved in 2002. Dad started taking it in August 2010. Diagnosed January of 2011. Dead February of 2012. I and many others just want long term data before we do something irreversible.

First off, sorry about your father. And I understand your hesitancy.

Those 14.5 million doses account for 61.3% of the population. Most have had a 3rd shot by now.

As for masks and or vaccines not being effective, we're all playing a game of statistics here. Nothing is a 100%. I hear people around here saying things about "COVID doesn't exist there" when they see where masks are/aren't required as a way to confuse people, or convince them that all the rules are arbitrary.

Studies show a "basic" mask can be 20-50% effective over some interval of time. Obviously mask effectiveness depends on the construction and fit as well. Staying 6+ feet apart also lowers the probability by some %, as does better ventilation, and so on. All the rules are doing is trying to stack smaller, easy to implement actions on top of each other in order to achieve an overall probability of transmission that is much lower.

I see this constant argument from parents in my kids district arguing against masks by saying that they're not effective because it's not a 100% solution and it drives me crazy.

Like I said a long time ago in the other thread, I wish more people understood the concept of risk management and actually used it.

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