Science Abuse

Never been a fan of Colberts form of humor....untill I saw him in that element. I laughed my ass off. His film skit was a bit long, though.

this man deserves a medal, nicely done,

Use the brick, you'll like it alot better, trust me. Metal rims will smell like burning paint for a month. When the paint is burned off, they get hot and stay hot. The brick wont deform over time, you can stack it to your prefered height, and you can easier lay a grill across the top.

Incorrect, it would mean more jobs for other southeast asian nations who's currency is naturaly crap. Vietnam is already sniping what it can from China. you are correct, it would no longer be fruitfull to outsource your production to China. Some US based companies simply could not afford to bring all that tooling and such over here. In many cases, the Chinese factories actualy own the tooling. You dont just move production back over here, it's hugely expensive, trust me, I have very specific knowlege in this feild. So, for the period of time that buisnesses are sinking and swimming, we'll all be paying a premium for the Chinese goods, whatever percent their currency had risen, and there are ALOT. You'd be hard pressed to go a wek without using something produced or handled by the PRC. So immediately your costs go up. After everything settles, US companies are producing, you're costs are still up because it costs more to produce this stuff in the states. You have to pay people more, you have to take care of them, you have environmental regulations. So, overall, we're looking at a perminent price increase for our clothes and stamped metal products, etc etc. the buisnesses that survive, in the long run, wont feel the pinch. In fact, they'll be better off. The costs get passed on to the consumer. If they can afford the costs of moving over here, they'll be in a great position to make a good hunk of cash. Hopefully, with the increased market share, they'll hire more, but you can't predict or count on that.

Less politicaly charged. This is Economics. Everyone's heard about how China keeps their currency artificialy worthless, and it gives them a hell of an advantage on the world market. But think, if China were to suddenly say "Ok you guys, you win, we're floting our currency, we'll play fair now"...How fucked would we American consumers be? Discuss

umm you quoted anewspaper. What was there source? As we know from the Dispatch, you dont need to report facts to print stuff. though, I must say I'm not at all suprised that he curt a check to George Washington University's Cardiothoracic Institute. He's probably planning on spending alot more time there. Interesting fact though, the Gores donations vs the Cheneys. The same year the Gores gave $353 to charity, they reported $197,729 in adjusted gross income. According to income tax information released by the White House on, the Cheneys' adjusted gross income in 2005 was $8,819,006, and they donated $6,869,655, leaving them $1,949,351......you cant argue the vast difference in precentages, but how the fuck did he make 44 times more the Gore? They've both got the same job. The initial point of the thread isn't refuted by this info, its vindicated. He's a rich motherfucker making ALOT more money then anyone in his job ever has. I would love to know how....hmm, Oh yeah, excersising his stock options in companies that have made a fuckton off the war. Imaging the PR nightmare if he didn't give up a shitpot of money. What's he care, he's got lots more options left, and still keeps twice what his boss made, and 8-9 times what his predesessors made. I agree with Adam, this thread is pretty much a stuck pig. I'm starting less charged current event's-type thread, less politicaly charged.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9851/owned49fz.jpg

Jesus spin doctering christ! The shit is getting deep, I should have brought my waders. Yes, the president does need congresses approval to send troops anywhere, if for nothing else then ethical reasons. Unlees you're a cocky premodonna president like our current one, you enforce the will of the people, and congress is supposed to represent them. Secondly: One president began the programs, and dealt with foggy info of a virgining intel program. None of it was nearly as effective back then, it was pretty much all new Apart from the first WTC bombing, all attacks were focussed overseas. Bush came into a much more refined system with an infinately larger base of knowledge. He didn't get a report of supposed positions and plans in lands 10,000 miles away, he got a report entitled "Bin Laden Determined to strike within the US", and it was full of info, like the fact that OBL cronies were already IN the country and learning to fly commercial air liners. If you dont see a difference int he two situations, you need to call up Fox News and get your own talk show, they're looking for just your type. Bwhahaha I couldn't have picked better examples! Accept welfare, it needed trimmed, I'll give you that (see, we can agree!). Vietnam, the most wastefull and tragic military campaign in US history. LBJ, a republican threw us into it "to fight the commies". It economicaly destroyed the nation. But, as is protocol for the Republicans, they boosted national patriotism and jingoism to distract everybody. He burned billions of dollars and, more importantly, 52,000+ american soldiers. Nixon, under pressure by the american public and just wanting to be liked pulled us out. Best descision he ever made, but you cant commend the elephants for that. If you make a mess and clean it up, you dont deserve a medal, especialy if you kill 52,000 americans in some one elses revolutionary war. Social security? I dont know why everyone credits Regan with winning the Cold War, we fuckin payed for it. Yes, there was a whole lot of money there not being used by anyone (yet), they just couldn't leave it alone. The IRS? You're referring the one of the Repubs most valuable weapons. Delay LOVES the IRS, they audited the books of a non-profit organization that made sport of bashing him during campaign years. Try that when you're getting audited, bitches! Of course, they were found innocent of any wrong doing. For "security reasons", the IRS began withholding data on its audit, collection, and other enforcement activities. There is also a push to get private contractors involved in the collections proccess. Such a move would allow administration officials to award contracts to their cronies; those cronies would be able to conceal their collection strategies from public disclosure by claiming immunity from FOIA requests as "trade secrets," protected under 10 U.S.C. 552(b)(4). Effectively, the IRS could prevent public disclosure of how it decides who gets audited; their audit procedures; and what methods are used to collect the "debts" the IRS says are due. You're absolutely right, they got their fingers deep in the IRS puppet. Good point. You know, you're bringing good points, and very well put together. But I cant help but notice something. You're fairly lonely. If I'd posted this a year ago, there'd be 3 pages of folk calling me a hippy-lib and backing Bush furiously. All is fairly quiet on the right'wing front, not so many people backing him up anymore. Why is that?

Source? I'd like to think the Securities and Exchange Commision has their shit together. Yes, I know what I'm talking about, I knew how options work, I posted it int he simplest way possible. The point being that, no matter how/when he got his options, they are worth much more now then they would have been had we not gon to war. If you think he's giving it all to charity, you're very very mistaken. Dick Cheney's net worth has skyrocketed as a direct result of the war in Iraq. i have yet to research what other holdings he's got, this is just one.

Listan to NPR, that's the only place I heard it advertised. Elena said WNCI promoted it, too.

Elena scored tickets, we just got back. Never thought that an hour and a half of 2 guys answering questions would be such a fulfilling experience. 8) It bgan as, more or less, an on-stage enterview with a chick from WNCI. After that, they aired a test that will never see tv*, then opened up the floor to questions. Kids mostly, a couple adults, along with some creepy 30 something overweight chap in a "PEGAN" T-shirt. Hilarious stuff and anecdotes, great to hear the guys cuss. The show ended and we hit the streets to kill 1/2 hour, hoping the exodus from the parking garage would pass. We got back to the garage to find a pack of folk, mostly kids (and the "PEGAN" guy again), behind the theater. They were standing between a Caddilac and a back door chanting "Jamie, Adam!". We watched from our garage level 4 pearch as the two cam out and began signing autographs. I slightly regretted not bringing a camera. The croud thinned out, and the two were still there chatting with strragglers, the "PEGAN" guy had since been dragged off by his woman. It though "Damn, they're accessable as hell", and lamented my lack of camera. I tossed Elena my Keys and flew down the steps and met up with the remaining group. I stuck my hand out, said "Thanks for bringing legitimacy to screwing around!", Adam replied with "It's the least we could do!", and I left them to their picture taking. would have loved to talk more, but I didn't want to be "that guy". I may write them later, deffinately will take in another show if they do one. *The test that never aired, PETA be warned. Whats more nutritious, kids cereal, or the box it comes in? No one wanted to eat cardboard, so they got 12 lab mice, devided into groups of 3. Control - given mouse food Set 1 - given Cereal A Set 2 - given cereal B Set 3 - given cardboard. The cardboard was soaked in water, turned into a paste, and mixed with a simple sugar. They left the 4 groups for 2 days. They come back to a distrubing smell. they look to Set 3 and find that; A: the cardboard pelets wre un touched B: the was only one mouse in the enclosure. A very fat mouse at that. Some time over the course of two days, the mice had done battle, leaving one the champion, the others got eaten. Hilarity. What became of the cannable mouse? They fed him to a pet snake. Comedy gold, shame it'll never air. Also, they apparently have high speed film footage of adam Lighting a fart.

You're as far removed from reality ans those who think Bush knowingly allowed 9/11 to happen (my point was he didn't do anything to prevent it). Bill Clinto couldn't do shit, do you remember the term "Wag the dog" popping up on picket signs everywhere? He had ZERO support to go after Bin Laden. All the intell we had on OBL, we got during the Clinton years. The FBI and CIA both got specific devision devoted to him. They found him, they wanted to go after him....and no one let them. "Wag the Dog" they said, "You're just trying to draw attention from your blowjobs!". Support from the Republican controlled congress was neccesary, and it was lacking. Terrorists just weren't a threat to anyone not in a foreign embassy. They tried, and they were not allowed. The only thing they could do was send a cruise missle into a pharmacuticals plant suspected of making chemical weapons, and diplomaticaly preasure Jordan to do something about Bin Laden....they just kicked him out. Political power plays by the republican party have cost this country alot. Going back on their record, they largely suck as leaders. But they sure as hell know how to get people to elect them. Just look at the primary ads on TV right now. Not one of them is running on their record, all slander. Ask people why they picked bush in 2004, they say its because "Kerry was no better", or because he was a christian.

All I'm going to say: Yes, it was up to par. Besides, Andrew knows I love'm. It's one of the primary reasonsI question the war. He signed up to fight for us, the least we can do is fight for him. "That reason: The only thing needed for evil to prosper is for good men to stand by and do nothing." It's not the only thing. It also helps when they convince good men to fight for them. The top positions in this government are just as corrupt, if not more. The origional post here was just to point out one bit of eveidence. Your devotion to the commander and cheif is admirable, evidence that you're a good soldier. But I also know you're a smart lad, and I'm suprised that you dont even aknowlege the question. 'Bout time you started posting your side, this was getting frustrating. SPLN SUX....dude what are you talking about? also, I doubt anyone at any of those intitutions comes even close to making what Cheney is making.

I didn't miss the point and I dont care want you meant it to sound like. It was disrespectfull, it was tasteless. If you're going to agree with us, please findsd a way to do it that wont discredit the argument. It was a blunt and brutal point, one that was meant to hit a personal nerve, therefore it belongs in the kitchen. Show no respect, get no respect. Using people who gave their lives as fodder in a smart ass remark is disrespectfull. you didn't post an opinion. The only people I've ever met named Christian were males, sorry.

You fuckin better. This is America, it's your responcebility to take all political banter thatway.

Actualy, it was me who wrote that all, hense the mispellings. I wrote it on anther forum. Rather then tout it as new, since people here visit there, I just copy/pasted and quoted. The sources are great and many, keep in mind it covers 5 years of information. I've paid close attention these years and alot of it is memory. Some news agencies are nice enough to aire clips from time to time. If you'd like a source for any particulars, lemme know, and I'll set forth to dig it up. Right now I just dont have the time or drive to write that much. Found it: TRANSCRIPT FROM GLORIA BORGER'S INTERVIEW OF VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY ON CNBC'S CAPITAL REPORT (June 17, 2004) BORGER: Well, let's get to Mohammad Atta for a minute, because you mentioned him as well. You have said in the past that it was, quote, "pretty well confirmed." Vice Pres. CHENEY: No, I never said that. BORGER: OK. Vice Pres. CHENEY: Never said that. BORGER: I think that is... Vice Pres. CHENEY: Absolutely not. What I said was the Czech intelligence service reported after 9/11 that Atta had been in Prague on April 9th of 2001, where he allegedly met with an Iraqi intelligence official. We have never been able to confirm that nor have we been able to knock it down. BORGER: Well, now this report says it didn't happen. Vice Pres. CHENEY: No. This report says they haven't found any evidence. BORGER: That it happened. Vice Pres. CHENEY: Right. It was on Meet the Press a couple months earlier that he indeed said, quote; "It was pretty well confirmed". Have a read of some MSNNC guys recalling dick roller coaster: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6192327/site/newsweek/ "I know what cause they're fighting for; the belief that somehow we have a responsibility as a society to help where it is needed." North Korea Ruwanda Sierra Lione Nepal Actualy, pages and pages of african republics. Atrocities are great and many. Iraq is in shambles, and life is as bad, if not worse then it was under Saddam. How many people have gone without running water or electricity since 2002? Saddam ruled with an Iron fist and kill anyone who looked at him funny. But Iraqi's could walk out their front door in the morning without worrying abou getting caught in a crossfire, or blown up by and IED placed by a foreign terrorist to keill a foreign soldier. Shits fucked up there right now. It'll get better, but dont say things are better off right now. This is why we can't simply pull out. It's a fucking mess, it was wrong to make it, and it'd be just as wrong to leave it. You dont fuck up some ones house without helping them fix it. Bush tossed us into the pool, we're here, not swimming isn't an option.

Apparently we cant afford that for our own troops. If you want to shoot terrorists and make that money, you have to drop out of the military and become a mercanary for Blackwater or other companies like it. You would . not . beleive the money getting paid out to private military contractors for their work in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's appauling the money that is being made. Here's a new term for the Bush administration: Trickle Up Economics We, the masses pay taxes. The tax money goes to the government, who spends most of it on private contractors. The rich who can afford major initial investments in portfolios fat with energy and defense contractor get richer. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. sad shit is, that $43mill that cheney is making on that stock, it's a drop in his bucket. Bush, Cheney, and Rummy with leave office as billionares. You can quote me. W is already worth almost that, and it's mostly Saudi money. Ever wonder why they get away with financing terrorism? Anyone who's ever met the truely super rich (old money), or done any dealings with them, know that they are not people like you or me. They live in a world far far separate from the stimuli and hardships we face. The difference between new-money rich and old-money rich is staggering. There is alot that they simply dont care about, you and I fit in that catagory. the ego's are incomprehensable. .....and this is where you write that reason....

I never argued that, just meathods. We din't need a war to remove him from power. But, a drawn out war makes more money for people then a couple special opps maneuvers or a couple years of diplomatic proccesses. The vast majority of those palaces were built and furished before Desert Storm. Andrew: Who's name is on that report? It's the opposite of what was said in 2000. Odd Will your source on the Al Quaida ties be credible? Or will all your info come from the people who need you to beleive it? Keep in mind, the info that came out just prior totyhe invasion was what the Bush administration wanted you to hear, it's what they wrote. When some one comes out and says "No, thats not what I reported, you're lying", Bush or his cronie Rove does something to smear them, like leak classified info identifying a CIA operative/wife. I saw a rather hilarious intervied with Dick a couple years back. The lady brought up that he said 'Sadam had direct links to Al Quaida, we've got proof of it, its true', and reminded him that it had come out that that "intel" was false, and that Saddam actualy took efforts to keep them out. Dick responded with 'No i never said, that, dont put words in my mouth". she said 'But sir we've got you on tape saying those exact words'. He said something like 'I dont care what you've got on tape' and the interveiw was over. They rolled the tape, she was right. Fuck sake I wish I remember who that was. There's a reason they only do interveiws on Fox anymore.

They couldn't afford them. Their summer trip to Kuwaite nearly bankrupted the nation as a whole, to say nothing about their defence budget. They couldn't afford to fuel and fly their jets, they damn sure couldn't afford the cost of getting controlled substances into the country. No one int he world wanted to deal with him. Those that did, only tolerated him for the oil. After the invasion, everyone cried "for our muslim brothers in Iraq!", but it was politcal play. No one trusted Saddam, no one liked him. He simply could not get the stuff. And hiding a reactor is a bit tougher then putting a 50 year old Mig in a hole.

Poor taste isn't even the word for that, supra boy. For fuck sake, I'm trying to get a productive debate going, take the appauling shit elsewhere. Neither am I, I'm pissed that you were asked to do it. Soldiers sacrifice alot, even if they dont see combat. We should never deploy without damn good reason.

A timeline: Discuss

Are you feeling like a particular dick today, or just too stupid to get the point? This countries leadership lead us into war for money, this is only one hunk of alot of proof. They lied to get troops over there, risked your lives, and ended the lives of thousands of people for it. One would think you'd be more pissed off then anyone, Halliburtons daily earnings are greater then the combined pay of all the US military active over there, but that's assuming you've got a mind of your own. I hope you dont think this is the thread I said I'd post, that's going in the kitchen. That's got alot more in it, this was just a lunch-break FYI post.

The guy made more money then you and I can comprehend, and he made it because we went to war. $43,407,000, say it out loud, Fourty Three MILLION, four hundred and seven thousand dollars. Thats not "some" money. He was directly involved in increasing the profits of the company. For those of us not towing a party line hardcore like never before, it rings alarm bells. He (and alot of other people) made money off of you, quite literaly. Actualy, off of us all, since we pay taxes, those taxes pay for those contracts, and the money from those contracts goes into his share worth.

If you owned 100 common shares of halliburton stock in summer of 2000 ($2100ish), it would be worth about $5400 now. If you owned Dick Cheneys 689,000 shares*, ($21 fixed price, gotta love options), you would have made $43,407,000 pure profit in 6 years. Wonder why their stock shot up so high over such a short period of time? *(He had 1,349,000, but sold 660,000 as a show of good faith when campaigning. The SEC filing showed that Cheney exercised options for 300,000 shares on Aug. 21 for $21 a share. He sold the stock the same day for $52.28 a share.. Wouldn't want a conflict of intrest, now, would we?) Ask yourself how many other people in power in this country own shares in companies that have been making billions off of knocking down and rebuilding Iraq?

Addendum: found it..... http://members.iquest.net/~aca/