i think there has been enough pointless debates in this thread already with out starting anouther people will think what they want to think.. why need to drag it out enough.. i dissagree with some of both sides.. but i still dont believe a "non" perma ban was ever warranted.. what pisses me off is that this thread continues to go on with out the OP.. its should be locked and forgotten not drug out talking about infractions my 2 cents are in.. and im going to sleep.