Well I havent ridden with them and probably never will, and my basis for dislike probably wont change and theirs about me probably wont either. I am not judging them as human beings but as riders, I have never met them in person so i cant tell you if they are this or that but i disagree with what they have done sa far as a riding entity Well everyone has their own defenition of "dumb riders" and that alone will create arguements but if you can keep yourself from getting wrapped up in it then tip of the cap to you. If they changed your life then great, but the again Hitler changed a lot of Germans life and look how the Nazis turned out. I <3 U