Disclaimer

I do, I travel everywhere at 190mph on my Hayabusa. Point and shoot. I get pissed that they put these things called "turns" in the road. WTF is this, NASCAR?

It'll have to be Photoshopped then because I don't think kawi kid can reach that high.

He would show up. Black Tod's like a ride ninja. You don't know where or what he's gonna do until right before he does it. I bet he comes back w/o hair if you guys didn't stick to a strict military schedule.

770 miles... nucking futz mang.

I kinda wanted to get out today...I'm just not feeling doing a ride alone today with nowhere to go. Especially because I have to be back here later this afternoon.

No, YOU established they are treated differently. I just concurred that in the instance of abuse, they are. But, conversely, they are also treated the same as an inanimate object, depending on the situation. I'm trying to figure out why they are different in one aspect, but are the same in others. Yes, there is a lot of grey area. The key to your verbiage is try to persuade -- whereas a regulation/law has immediate real consequences, not just monetary, if they are caught (the key verbiage for me). So our debate now comes down to what method is a more effective deterrent. You believe one way, I believe the other and I'm having a tough time finding supporting data for either. But once again, it was a win-win for both via private/public cooperation. I can't take that bet on Conklins because we won't ever be able to get the data. http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/document/March_2010_Sales_Chart.pdf Sales, year over year for Q1 2009 vs. 2010 (Before and After the recall) are up 8.7% for Toyota Group. And I guess if you want to get into specific models - both the Camry and Corolla are up 3.5% and 8.4% respectively. So, either buying more cars is an odd way of free market punishment, or buyers really are that shortsighted and irrational? Unless I'm missing some extenuating circumstances...??? See Toyota Sales figures.

You can honestly say it was a GOOD day after meeting Black Tod?

Yea, ya squid!

Unrestricting the later model ones is a simple $60 part (TRE - and that's if you don't want to make the jumper harness yourself, it's even cheaper then). They just can't claim to be the "fastest production bikes" because they need an aftermarket part to get the same results from the '99-00 OE bikes. Those early models had swingarm problems too, avoid.

If a cop comes into your house and shoots your dog, or shoots your lamp -- they are treated equally in the eyes of the law. The State has to pay for civil damages, they aren't charged with murder or cruelty. http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/family-mourns-after-pet-shot-by-cop And as a CCW holder, you know that you don't have legal justification to shoot someone that is hurting/stealing/killing your pet because they are property. I don't know how that is off topic? And I don't think EITHER BP or Conklin will have an acute impact other than emotional outrage, and here's why. People see the Conklin and BP things and may be disturbed, upset, or outraged, but if anything - human psychology says people are resistant to change. They love the status quo. So, how many people do you think went out of their way to research Conklin/BP connections within the supply chain, write letters to those companies, willing to change their buying habits and preferences (even if it means finding a more expensive substitute) in order to make any sort of economic difference? That was a rhetorical question - they're not. Look at Toyota - people still buy those cars regardless of the bad press, and the failure-mode there has potential to KILL you. So, I contend there really isn't 'free market' punishment as people like to think because the "free market" isn't really as free as you like to think. You have limited income and therefore limited options to take your economic/political stand. You are constrained by that, which is why I have a little more optimistic view on regulations and laws (not necessarily the execution of the agencies that enforce them) as a deterrent. There are also a few other benefits from basically having a semi-standardized level playing field for all the industry players.

Finally Bad324 comes through with the story. I share Todd's disappointment we can't turn this into a Shinko debate for eDrama. In summation, Timotheus went down "spirited" riding in dry weather, and Bad's buddy went down because of the rain slicked road - and because cruisers handle balls, not corners.

That's a nice Hawk and everything, but why is that picture hosted from: http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/

I understand what the laws are, I just think it's interesting that animals are a special type of property class, and legally treated differently dependent on the circumstances involved in the situation. We have differing views on this as well. I have no empathy for BP regarding what happened. I couldn't care less that it's financially harmful to BP (boo hoo, here's my oil soaked mini violin)...They are just as culpable for having failed safety systems. And PEOPLE died because of it. As well as wasting natural resources and contaminating the environment. Their "disaster response" if you can call it that, is laughable. Seems like there was no "Exit strategy" or emergency plan if things went wrong (a la spill containment). I could rant on about the missteps regarding the BP issue, but we can take that to another thread. Contrast this to a few sick-in-the-head farmhands getting their jollies off of beating cows. No harm was done to the environment, no disruption in the food chain, no people were killed... but this outrages people more than destroying a large portion of the oceanic ecosystem. Perspective.

Yea, I think we are saying the same thing but our glass is at different levels of 'fullness', or 'emptyness' in your case. And I guess that's my crux, "assuming the public believes the action to be illegal"... In the case of animal cruelty, the law has already determined animals are property. We have property rights/law. On the other hand, we as a society, have recognized animals should be treated humanely as 'organic beings'. So, they're property, but...they're not?Regardless, I don't see how they market would punish them? I mean, if it's anything like the BP fiasco, that dairy farm probably supplies to multiple labels and is intertwined enough in the food chain that it would be almost impossible on a consumer level to boycott them. The distribution chain doesn't allow it. I may be wrong, but that's an assumption I'm making.

:werd:We're like the frickin' Associated Press after our rides... we write multiple page press releases for our shit.

WTF, it rained? Not a drop here. Now the puzzle is starting to come together.

You just divulge YOUR account of the events... your interpretation... it's like art... what did the ride mean to YOU?

You guys do move slooooooow with information. A writeup is due immediately following the ride while details are fresh... Duh!

Proceed.

What am I missing here? No drama, just a podunk gas station, right?

At least he wasn't a cow in Plain City.