COTA: It's real simple

[motociclista]

Although I initially loved the idea of seeing a MotoGP race on a real road course, I won't be sending any ticket money to the Circuit of the Americas. The reason is very simple: If Kevin Schwantz isn't good enough to be allowed on the hallowed grounds of your racetrack, then it's obvious I'm not either.

That bad COTA aftertaste

P.S. -- Some of you have had positive words for my blog. I just want to mention that one way you can see when I've posted something new is to give my Facebook page a like, if you're a Facebook user.

And for those of you who aren't interested, please feel free to ignore me. I'm generally pretty easy to ignore.

[CephasGT]

I'm game. Just wrapped up a blog piece on the very same topic, but with a very different take.

Behind the Visor - The Infallible Kevin Schwantz

[Moto-Brian]

Listen... Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. But, unless anyone here has solid info as to the exact business issues between the two, it is really unfair to be slanderous on either side. Promoting not to buy tickets and support MotoGP and road racing in this country is really, really stupid.

I am a HUGE fan of KS. I ran his number for a few years and he was one of the reasons I started racing. I have friends that are close to him, that work for him and he is by far as great a dude as it appears.

However, COTA is a business. They have a lawsuit against them from Kevin's company. It is strictly a business and pretty much a sensible decision considering. If you have a lawsuit against you and that person attends your facility, why would you want him there? It is a pure business decision and something ANY company would have done. Apple suing Samsung. Think the CEO of Samsung would be allowed to attend an Apple meeting while that lawsuit was on? Maybe not a good example as he wouldn't be allowed even if they were not. But, you get the idea...

Kevin IS God. He is... To us racers and race fans. Accomplishments may only include a single MotoGP championship, but understand what he has done for the sport. Much greater things than a MotoGP championship. What has Eddie Lawson given us beyond his racing? Not much...

Kevin is a coach, teacher, designer, racer, businessman, etc. He is and will always be a guy that we can all look to and see the results of what he has given this industry. I personally think he has done more than most in this industry.

BUT... He has some issues between his company and COTA. A game of he said, he said? Maybe. But, as in anything between non public companies - we will not know the whole situation and even if it reaches to a climax and has an end result, we may still never know details. That's the way it is.

But, no offense to Moto's post and blog, but I always tend to feel these blogs are something to shout "Hey, look at me and my opinion". It's all cool and all, but I am siding more on that of Cephas' blog as it is his opinion and allows him to express what he feels. The other blog comes as an opinion of course, but like a guy pushing religion, you seem to be pushing your beliefs on us and I sorta think that stinks. Your opinion is cool and I think if you think it makes a dent, by all means. But, I have a bit of distaste towards you that if you are in fact an actual enthusiast of racing and the sport of road racing specifically, you would look beyond the lawsuit and try and support the sport.

What happens if all you guys get on your BS wagon and prevent ticket sales and TV viewership to a point that COTA and Dorna say "Screw it - it isn't worth it and we will lose sales and profits. Let's bail on the US market."? What if that did happen? That's your goal to hurt the wallet of COTA, right? That hurts the sport, man. That hurts an already fragile sport that BARELY has any traction in this country.

I dunno. I understand your being upset. Again, I love Kevin and have always worshiped him. I can show you more posters, books, helmets, signed stuff than most will have. But, I am also a business guy and know what happens when lawsuits pop up. Justified or not, let the courts handle it and let the results speak for themselves.

I told people on the WERA board that it would be better to take your crew of people and rent a big ol bus/buses and travel down with the same flow yellow Kevin used when racing and make a bold comment on your shirt supporting Kevin. Stay together and shout as loud as you can. TV will catch it, the press will catch it and above all, Kevin will see it. That is supporting Kevin. Not taking MotoGP away from a great venue.

Are you going to protest everything that is at COTA? We just did our WORLDWIDE press launch of the new 1199R at COTA. Will you be protesting the purchases of the new bike? Reject the magazines that attended because they should have stayed home in protest?

It's silly, man. Passion is fine. Lord knows I have a ton of that for this sport. But, it is a fragile sport that NEEDS support - not opinions driving people away.

[RHill]

sounds like a bunch of drama....support what you love with what you can.

[redkow97]

What I agree with most above is that we can't really judge without knowing more facts.

But based on what has been reported, KS isn't winning. Now if he sued claiming quasi contract, he might at least get some money for the pre-contract legwork he put into establishing the relationship between COTA and Dorna.

[motociclista]

@Cephas:

I see your point. Believe it or not, I'm not a huge Schwantz fan. That's not my motivation. Whether he was better than Rainey or how many titles he won is irrelevant. As someone who has worked a little in public relations, I would tell any company that you gain nothing by treating a popular public figure poorly. Maybe you get 30 seconds of personal satisfaction by throwing him out. But you would look like the bigger man if you kept the business dispute in court and treated him courteously, like any other team associate at the test.

What happens if all you guys get on your BS wagon and prevent ticket sales and TV viewership to a point that COTA and Dorna say "Screw it - it isn't worth it and we will lose sales and profits. Let's bail on the US market."? What if that did happen? That's your goal to hurt the wallet of COTA, right? That hurts the sport, man. That hurts an already fragile sport that BARELY has any traction in this country.

@Brian:

You say it's a business decision, like Apple vs. Samsung. I'll agree, insofar as the lawsuit. But not letting Schwantz into the track for a test wasn't a business decision. If it was, it was a stupid one, because it brought negative PR. His presence in no way hurts the track. He can't steal any information from them or hurt them at all. Having him kicked out by security is just pettiness.

I have no illusions that I have any kind of effect over ticket sales and TV viewership of the race. If COTA ends up backing out of MotoGP in the future, it will be because they've alienated so many fans for so many other reasons, such as their ticket and parking prices, restrictive policies, etc.

And I long ago gave up on this idea that we have to support everyone in the motorcycle industry no matter what they do. If a company makes a crap bike, do I have to buy one to support a fragile industry? If a track puts on a lousy race, do I have to attend to support the industry? No, I'll just buy a better bike or attend a different race. And no, I certainly wouldn't attack any other company associated with COTA. They are not guilty by association. That would be foolish and petty. Kind of like kicking a former world champ out of your race track.

[fireman_343]

I'll have to agree with Brian... Support this sport or it will be gone like a fart in the wind! Hell, I can't even watch MotoGP races on my TV anymore.. The gears have started to turn.. Stop the BS, put on KS shirts or something and support him and the sport.

[shittygsxr]

I thought this was about busses

[swingset]

I thought this was about busses

Me too...I thought this was gonna be about riding with crazy people who smell like pee.

Thread disappoints.

[TSB67]

Kevin IS God. He is... To us racers and race fans.

Problem with Kevin is he thinks he's God, too.

[motociclista]

I'll have to agree with Brian... Support this sport or it will be gone like a fart in the wind! Hell, I can't even watch MotoGP races on my TV anymore..

For those reading what others think I said, a couple of clarifications:

I did NOT tell anyone else they should boycott the MotoGP at COTA or MotoGP anywhere.

Realistically, I will attend one MotoGP race this year. Due to what has happened at COTA, I'll just go to Indy instead of Texas, as I originally considered.

I'll attend the exact same number of races as any other year. I didn't tell anyone else what to do, just stated what I was doing.

If that's not supporting the sport, then I'm guilty. I don't think I have to attend every motorcycle race in the country to support the sport.

As for those saying we don't know the full story, I agree -- in reference to the lawsuit. Again, I was talking not about the lawsuit but about kicking Schwantz out of the track.

Edited March 23, 2013 by motociclista

[Moto-Brian]

You have met and been around Kevin? You obviously have not so, don't use jealousy over his success and popularity to be negative towards the guy. Jesus.

[CephasGT]

Or it's possible that he did meet him, and just didn't get along. Some friends of mine got to meet him at the IndyGP a couple years back, and got the same impression. I know that's not necessarily a full indicator of the man, I'm just saying it's possible for different people to have different personal impressions of him.

[Moto-Brian]

The problem is that in these types of BS blogs where you make some seriously stern claims and paint a picture that COTA is evil for kicking someone they have a legal issue with out. You the. Mention the fact that you are not going to support COTA and essentially are using your forum to promote your actions make sense.

The issue with blogs a d the way you come on the site and promote your blogs is that you try and influence opinion. Influencing opinion is the same as telling everyone that reads it in an underlying way, they too should follow your lead.

You agree with the idea that you don't know all the facts yet you are making claims as if you do. You also see it being a business ordeal and yet again, you make a comment to my response that says it was stupid to boot out a popular figure from the track.

Here's the drill. COTA's business IS the race track. It IS the racing. It IS MotoGP. They did not want any negativity as a result of a legal issue imposed by the individual that was there. In the interest to keep things 100% business, they did not want that individual at the facility.

Yes, the likelihood is that Kevin wouldn't have done anything I poor taste or do anything dramatic. But, press was there, factory teams with big bucks and who are opinion leaders were there and too shelf racers were there. Allowing the suing individual there and being amongst that level of people that are essentially customers of COTA could have been very one sided and could have generated favorable press for Kevin's case or negative light on COTA with no ability to counter.

Point is that is DOES make perfect sense to ask Kevin to not attend not come back at any time. It is a private facility and much like other tracks, they have a list of people who are not permitted to attend events. Just because Kevin is famous, why does that matter? There are people not permitted at Mid-Ohio. Are you going to stop attending races because of that? Or, are you stirring the lot because of Kevin's popularity? It can't be both ways, bro.

It's a legal situation. How about a better scenario. Owner of COTA sues Kevin over an issue regarding the Swantz school. The CEO of COTA shows up to do a swantz school after. Is it a good business decision to decline his attendance? Probably so. It's a conflict of interest as in the same scope as what COTA did at the test.

Again, you writing an article as to your opinion and the fact that you are trying to hit COTA in the wallet by not buying tickets nor watching the race (which I bet you still do) and because you have a site and write stories about things in this industry, people will follow your lead. Which you know. Thus, you are truly going against our fragile sport as a whole. Support the sport. Protest the track all you want, but do it with facts you know and not leading up to this awesome event.

[Moto-Brian]

Or it's possible that he did meet him, and just didn't get along. Some friends of mine got to meet him at the IndyGP a couple years back, and got the same impression. I know that's not necessarily a full indicator of the man, I'm just saying it's possible for different people to have different personal impressions of him.

It is possible. But, meeting him one time and in an environment where he easily could have a deadline for something he needs to be at, etc could come across as the wrong thing. To say in a fairly stern way that he is arrogant is different than "when we met him during an autograph session, he seemed very arrogant" is quite different. I've hung with a group and Kevin for a fairly long time. He was awesome and very articulate. He was showing us his new road bicycle and we all were talking MotoGP. People came up and interrupted the conversation to get autographs. He was totally cool.

Was he engaging and perky like Pastrana? No. What people need to understand is that these guys are A-Type personalities. They are at the highest level of competitiveness to a point most never see. Two, they are in no way friends with everyone they meet. They try and be as polite and flexible as possible, but at some point they have things they need to do.

It's like Mladin. A lot of people thought he was an asshole. I've talked to him a few times and not after asking for a signature. We had an Oakley deal and he was talking and I asked a couple of questions regarding the previous gen GSXR vs the current at the time. Someone told him he was 't an asshole like people said he was. We all laughed. He simply said "I'm here to win championships. Not be a spokesperson. Sometimes that rubs people the wrong way." He's right. But, he signed pics, took photos, shook hands, etc. she. It was time to leave, he was outta there. He fulfilled his deal and moved on.

Pastrana is opposite. I've known the guy that essentially discovered TP and can tell you from the moment he's entered this industry even up until this day, the kid is fucking awesome. I've seen his plane arrive late and he got to the shop close to the end of the event. He stayed until everyone got something signed. 2 hours after he should have left.

These athletes are hammered with events and full schedules. It can be tough sometimes.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Desmo-Brian

[motociclista]

Or it's possible that he did meet him, and just didn't get along.

I certainly don't know him, but I met him when I took his class. I liked the guy a lot, the little I was around him. When I said "I'm not a huge fan," I meant just that: I have a level of respect for all pro racers, and especially anyone who has reached world champion level, but it's not like he's my all-time favorite.

But again, it's irrelevant whether I like him or not personally, whether he won one world championship or seven, whether he is or isn't better than someone else.

And Brian, I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. My "BS blog" probably has a lot less influence than you do. You're now in company with the president of the AMA, who also declared me an enemy of the sport because I disagreed with him.

[Rjettman]

I did Kevin's school at Indy last year, and my avatar picture is from there. A buddy of mine was doing it as well to write an article about it for his magazine and asked me if I wanted to do it with him, so I went. At the time, I knew Kevin's name and that he was a championship racer, but not much else.

My personal impression of the man isn't really relevant, but all during the school, he was always approachable and seemed very even tempered. Like a guy without a care in the world. We did everything you would expect at a school, plus he took the time for pictures, autographs if you wanted one, made some barbecue, and hung out after the riding was over just like you would at a track day. He even gave me six laps of personal lead/follow after I got separated from my group for taking off without strapping up my helmet. Whoops.

I don't know what the beef is with COTA, but according to Kevin's web page, he was there for the Attack team, with a proper credential, to coach Blake Young. Blake was also at the Indy school I attended doing laps and generally having fun interacting with the coaches and students in attendance for those two days. Now, to throw out Blake's coach could have an effect on Blake's performance in the race, and to me, that is taking it a step too far. Even if Kevin's advice can be gained from watching film, its an added distraction for one team, that the other teams don't have to deal with. COTA should have handled themselves differently, at least in a way that would minimize the impact to the Blake Young team.

[Moto-Brian]

And Brian, I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. My "BS blog" probably has a lot less influence than you do. You're now in company with the president of the AMA, who also declared me an enemy of the sport because I disagreed with him.

I do worry. You are influencing people and with stuff like this, it isn't supportive of the sport which leaves me concerned. I am heavily passionate towards our sport and will do whatever it is to help it grow.

As for the president of the AMA, I've never met Jeremy Lazarus in my life... So, not sure what that comment means if anything...

You arent disagreeing with me - you have the right to your opinion. I just think the manner by which you expressed it is aggressive in tone and influential in spirit. I think what Cephas did was better done in that he had an opinion same as you, but had it tied to being solely his own and expressed it as such. Not using pieces of fact to make it sound as if he was speaking factual vs opinion... That's all.

If you are an enemy of the sport, that's Jeremy's opinion. Something caused him to say that... But, in this case, I just feel you are using your emotions to hurt our sport and it isn't because you hate it or want to kill it - as the description fits when calling you an "enemy", but rather because your blog could be used to influence others in doing the same thing. "Stand up and protest" is what I sense and feel.

Again, better served wearing shirts, paying the ticket prices to support the sport and protest in a professional manner, but to get impactful results.

[Moto-Brian]

I did Kevin's school at Indy last year, and my avatar picture is from there. A buddy of mine was doing it as well to write an article about it for his magazine and asked me if I wanted to do it with him, so I went. At the time, I knew Kevin's name and that he was a championship racer, but not much else.

My personal impression of the man isn't really relevant, but all during the school, he was always approachable and seemed very even tempered. Like a guy without a care in the world. We did everything you would expect at a school, plus he took the time for pictures, autographs if you wanted one, made some barbecue, and hung out after the riding was over just like you would at a track day. He even gave me six laps of personal lead/follow after I got separated from my group for taking off without strapping up my helmet. Whoops.

I don't know what the beef is with COTA, but according to Kevin's web page, he was there for the Attack team, with a proper credential, to coach Blake Young. Blake was also at the Indy school I attended doing laps and generally having fun interacting with the coaches and students in attendance for those two days. Now, to throw out Blake's coach could have an effect on Blake's performance in the race, and to me, that is taking it a step too far. Even if Kevin's advice can be gained from watching film, its an added distraction for one team, that the other teams don't have to deal with. COTA should have handled themselves differently, at least in a way that would minimize the impact to the Blake Young team.

The deal is that COTA was holding a private test and can choose whom they allow and whom they do not. Had Kevin been listed on the staff that was coming to attend, it might have been different or maybe COTA would have stepped in and told Attack that at this time, they cannot permit Kevin to attend due to a pending legal case they are in with his company. i assume that Kevin was not specifically listed with Attack.

There is a crew of people that attend these tests and usually a list of names or a QTY of attendees. Had his name been on there, I would assume someone would have caught it. But, maybe he was and COTA missed it until word got out he was there. Once word got out, they asked him to leave and from the sounds of it, they did it professionally and without a big scene.

In the end, it is a business deal, folks. Business. We let our passions and emotions run at times, but had it been just a regular Joe with the same lawsuit and COTA asked him to leave, we wouldn't think twice about it... Even if he was a coach for Blake...

[CephasGT]

Or maybe they should have considered that problem before engaging Schwantz's services. Or maybe Schwantz should've considered that wrinkle before he sued the place.

Look, I can't comment on what the man is like as a person, because I haven't met him. I know that many who have, say he's the best, and others were put off, and I know how both of those things can happen. I've been around enough paddocks, met and hung out with enough racers to know that they're just people, like the rest of us in that it's sometimes easy to catch them at a bad moment and get the wrong impression.

I've also worked with fighter pilots for most of my adult life, so I know a thing or two about type-A personalities. I've learned that the whole type-A thing is largely a myth, too, because some of the most laid back dudes in the world are absolute demons in the cockpit or on the racetrack. The paddock at any given motorcycle race, at just about any level, is full of mostly regular guys and gals with highly irregular levels of talent, ambition and work ethic. And mostly, they're the best people you'll ever meet. But we do have our share of jerks, too. And I can't say that I'll give anybody a pass, world champion or club race backmarker, for being a jerk just because they race motorcycles.

What I mean to say by all of that, and one of the points I hope I raised in the article, is that being a racer, indeed being a world champion, does not excuse one from the human trait of occasionally being wrong.

[Rjettman]

The deal is that COTA was holding a private test and can choose whom they allow and whom they do not. Had Kevin been listed on the staff that was coming to attend, it might have been different or maybe COTA would have stepped in and told Attack that at this time, they cannot permit Kevin to attend due to a pending legal case they are in with his company. i assume that Kevin was not specifically listed with Attack.

According to Kevin, he had a proper credential. I don't know how these things work having never been an insider, but I would think that would be enough.

the end, it is a business deal, folks. Business. We let our passions and emotions run at times, but had it been just a regular Joe with the same lawsuit and COTA asked him to leave, we wouldn't think twice about it... Even if he was a coach for Blake...

Ahhhh.....business. Well, if it was strictly business, I would think if you are in the business of hosting races, you have to let the teams bring their support staff to the track. If the business at hand is not subject to the lawsuit, then it would seem that kicking a properly credentialed member of Blake's team off the track is something other than just business. And if you are going to do that, he should have never been given a credential in the first place.

[CephasGT]

Having a proper credential is a somewhat misleading concept. I've had "proper credentials" at GPs before, because they were courtesy credentials from Rizla Suzuki, arranged by a friend of mine. Basically, the team signs up for the test, is issued whatever number of passes they request, and can give them out as they see fit. There's not a name-by-name guest list, as one might suppose.

[Moto-Brian]

Cephas hit the nail on the head. We are given an allocation of passes. Some high level all access, some general admission. In this case, I am willing to bet that Attack was issued passes for staff for a set amount and one of the passes was offered to Kevin with the connection to Blake. Maybe even Blake used an allocation he had been given.

Whatever the case, the idea is that it is possible (I am guessing as I do not know the facts) that Kevin was there as a guest or as part of the staff of the Attack team and Honda team. Very easily could have been a deal where it was not known by the track owners and admin people until reported or viewed. It's simple as that. I think he actually made the full first day if not mistaken... So, it wasn't until it was made aware by the higher ups that he was there.

Rjett... The way you are looking at it is very skewed. The business is racing. The track is a privately owned entity. Several racers have been kicked out of facilities for reasons from rental car racing and jumping to violating rules like dogs or bicycles. Whatever the reasoning for asking someone to leave, the track does what it feels is necessary. No matter who the team is, no matter who the rider is, you have to follow rules. Rossi could easily be asked to leave if he is doing smokey burnouts and tearing up the surface of the track for example...

In this case, there is a conflict of interest. That conflict is between Kevin's company and COTA. Again, look at it with an open mind. Two businesses with a lawsuit between them. One is right, one is wrong or maybe the truth is in between. BUT, we DO KNOW FOR FACT THAT THERE IS A LAWSUIT between the two. That being said, COTA feels it is not a good idea to have the person that is the face and name of the company suing them attending one of their events. Simple as that.

Attack and Blake can do without Kevin. He isn't the electronics guy. He's a mentor and coach for Blake. He does have an important role in the minds of Blake and Attack, but it isn't like they need to scramble to find another mentor.

The fact is that lawsuits are messy and they can cause people to act crazy and even act in a way we view as extremely uncalled for. Look at divorces. They can take two people that cannot get along and are cordial at the initial stages of divorce and turn them into raging lunatics that want whatever the other has. COTA has all the right in the world to ask Kevin to leave. Again, I think Kevin would have done the same if it were something at his school like I gave as an example.

I'm just saying it is not our place to judge right or wrong. Does it make sense? Maybe. Would you allow someone to be at your workplace or company if they have a serious lawsuit placed against you? I think you would feel that was inappropriate. I think Kevin should have seen that he would not be welcomed. I think he knew that it could have occurred this way. It sucks and it looks messy for COTA, but again. Take the personal and the fame out of it and ask yourself if someone like Ben from Ohio Riders was asked to leave because he had the same lawsuit. We on here due to our feelings towards him as a friend and motorcycle enthusiast would protest. But, would the average guy in CA that never heard of him stand up and shout and write a blog asking people to voice their opinion to COTA why this sucks? I really doubt it...

[CephasGT]

You sure use a lotta words.

[granda080]

Just to play devils advocate a bit. Do you think it is possible that he knew he would not be welcomed and that in all likihood he would be asked to leave, casting a negative image for COTA and a more sympathetic view for him and his case?

I think the whole situation is a bit out of sorts. Professional curtisy would say, even if invited one would decline as to not "force" this exact situation. This could, and should have been avoided.