smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 If I didn't have to work, I could bring my GF .410 and my buddies 9mm carbine and they can tell us which hurts more. LOLI'll bring a Beretta 391 with foster slugs, an SKS, a Ruger LCP and a Beretta 92FS. Who's bringing the bill's author? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 If I can shoot a deer with a Ruger Super Blackhawk, I should be able to take one with a lever .44 carbine. No? This is all this is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Your graph is flawed because of the very reason you state (I thought it was obvious, but I'm glad you typed it) - You don't see any of the classic long-gun rounds on it. You keep wanting to make comparisons with prior handgun caliber hunting privileges, missing that my statement is in comparison with rifle loads. Yes, that means I have an issue with most pistol calibers used on large animals. This excludes the Casul, .44, .45 long colt, all of the 50 calibers, etc. of course.Look, the 30-06 is a gold standard for deer hunting, as are 12g and 20g slugs. Hunting with FIVE TO SIX TIMES LESS kinetic energy using handgun rounds is, to me, more about the hunter's experience of the kill, than the game's, and that's what I have a problem with. I respect a hunter's quest to practice, practice, practice getting a heart shot or at the very least well-placed lung penetration. I respect a hunter selecting a high-energy projectile to maximize rapid blood loss and unconsciousness. I respect a hunter taking his or her time and selecting the right animal to take.I do not respect the use of low-energy handgun rounds, sloppy technique or settling for the first animal of the day so they don't get their tootsies cold.How is 30-06 the Gold Standard when it isn't even legal in this state? You can say what you want, but if a pistol caliber can kill a human, it can kill a deer. You're acting like a deer is a huge moose or bear. What's a average whitetail weight in at? 200 lbs? Human? I'm 185lbs. Chest cavity to the vitals? Foot to a foot and a half across for both? But yet you act like a deer is built of solid concrete. I completely agree with shot placement and ethical kills. That's the name of the game with bow hunting. That doesn't mean that 38 spl won't get the job done. I shoot to put meat in my freezer, I'm not hunting for a rack. Hell, with crop damage permits I'm not even aloud to shoot bucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 And as for the graph, I think it shows well for the LEGAL rounds to hunt deer in Ohio. Toss the 380 off completely and it's a good graph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 If I can shoot a deer with a Ruger Super Blackhawk, I should be able to take one with a lever .44 carbine. No? This is all this is.Not exactly:Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.It's the lower-energy calibers I'm taking issue with, particularly the .38 special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gump Posted April 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) So why has it worked for years in Indiana? Why do they let you use pistols at all for all these years? As long as you have a pistol with a 5 inch barrel and .357 or larger, you could use it before, so what makes those same rounds out of a rifle all the sudden not capible?What they allowed before or where they allow the calibers now in other states is Irrelevent. Recently allowing the .38 in Ohio, is a step in the wrong direction. Regardless if FPS is increased thru a longer barrel. There's also the aspect that people think they can shoot further with rifles. Now we'll have tards aiming .38's at 100 yards vs. the realistic 40 yards with a .38 pistol. I have .410's and choose not to use that caliber. Based on, if I miss the vitals, I have a higher chance of loosing the deer and prolonging it's suffering. Now more retards, that have never hunted before possibly, with a legal cartridge, will be hitting the woods just because they have that cartridge. Real sportsman simply don't use under powered calibers to hunt any game. If someone shows up with a .38, I'm sending them packing.You're starting sound like one of them, brown its down idiots. Edited April 12, 2014 by Gump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Nope. Not good enough. I suspect many hunters to pitch a bitch over this idiocy. I've actually heard more complaints about the early muzzleloader they introduced last year than I had for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 How is 30-06 the Gold Standard when it isn't even legal in this state? You can say what you want, but if a pistol caliber can kill a human, it can kill a deer. You're acting like a deer is a huge moose or bear. What's a average whitetail weight in at? 200 lbs? Human? I'm 185lbs. Chest cavity to the vitals? Foot to a foot and a half across for both? But yet you act like a deer is built of solid concrete. I completely agree with shot placement and ethical kills. That's the name of the game with bow hunting. That doesn't mean that 38 spl won't get the job done. I shoot to put meat in my freezer, I'm not hunting for a rack. Hell, with crop damage permits I'm not even aloud to shoot bucks.Again, we're not taking issue with capability, but with ethics! Why can't you get that? Call it emotional or call it anthropomorphic, but I'm of the strong opinion and untold experience that animals are self-aware enough to merit consideration of how they should die. I'd rather put meat in a freezer knowing that I used a caliber sufficient enough to seriously expedite an animal's death, and not the smallest I could legal use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 What they allowed before or where they allow the calibers now in other states is Irrelevent. Recently allowing the .38 in Ohio, is a step in the wrong direction. Regardless if FPS is increased thru a longer barrel. There's also the aspect that people think they can shoot further with rifles. Now we'll have tards aiming .38's at 100 yards vs. the realistic 40 yards with a .38 pistol. I have .410's and choose not to use that caliber. Based on, if I miss the vitals, I have a higher chance of loosing the deer and prolonging it's suffering. Now more retards, that have never hunted before possibly, with a legal cartridge, will be hitting the woods just because they have that cartridge. Real sportsman simply don't use under powered calibers to hunt any game. If someone shows up with a .38, I'm sending them packing.You're starting sound like one of them, brown its down idiots. Ah, so my GF, a first time hunter weighing in at 100 lbs wet should man up and shoot a 12g or .500 Got ya..... that's a real sportsman..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 What they allowed before or where they allow the calibers now in other states is Irrelevent. Recently allowing the .38 in Ohio, is a step in the wrong direction. Regardless if FPS is increased thru a longer barrel. There's also the aspect that people think they can shoot further with rifles. Now we'll have tards aiming .38's at 100 yards vs. the realistic 40 yards with a .38 pistol. I have .410's and choose not to use that caliber. Based on, if I miss the vitals, I have a higher chance of loosing the deer and prolonging it's suffering. Now more retards, that have never hunted before possibly, with a legal cartridge, will be hitting the woods just because they have that cartridge. Real sportsman simply don't use under powered calibers to hunt any game. If someone shows up with a .38, I'm sending them packing.You're starting sound like one of them, brown its down idiots.And it's also these folks, and resulting situations that displays hunting in a negative light, thus jeopardizing those privileges for every hunter. Don't believe me? Ask Ducks Unlimited why public opinion is important to their mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Again, we're not taking issue with capability, but with ethics! Why can't you get that? Call it emotional or call it anthropomorphic, but I'm of the strong opinion and untold experience that animals are self-aware enough to merit consideration of how they should die. I'd rather put meat in a freezer knowing that I used a caliber sufficient enough to seriously expedite an animal's death, and not the smallest I could legal use. As I said in my reply to Gump, I'll make my GF take my 12g next time, even though she can't accurately aim or handle the gun. The extra kinetic force should make up for the bad shot..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Ah, so my GF, a first time hunter weighing in at 100 lbs wet should man up and shoot a 12g or .500 Got ya..... that's a real sportsman.....It's about her isn't it. Poor GF. Why can't the deer just play nice, get in close and let hunters use something they can more easily handle? Darned inconsiderate deer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gump Posted April 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 As I said in my reply to Gump, I'll make my GF take my 12g next time, even though she can't accurately aim or handle the gun. The extra kinetic force should make up for the bad shot.....Why not use one of the other capable cartridges or a 20 gauge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Nope, it's about taking what you can accurately shoot and take a deer ethnically. Know your range, the appropriate range for the firearm/bow and make a clean kill. So my grandfather or nephew shouldn't hunt because they can't shoulder a 12g? Your grandma should CCW 380 because it would cleanly kill a robber. Stupid logic. A 38 spl will kill a deer properly within proper ranges. PERIOD. It is upon the hunter to know those ranges. And that's why we don't get to hunt with rifle calibers, idiots don't know ranges and what's beyond..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Why not use one of the other capable cartridges or a 20 gauge? Actually we tried a 20, she had a hard time with the recoil. So we started her on a .410 that she could accurately shoot to 50 yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 And that's prolly what will happen with my nephew. Start on the 410 and move up as he grows. Teach the right the first time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Maybe she should hunt smaller game until she can fire an adequate weapon? It's not fucking golf. So now .410 is inadequate..... LMFAO!!!! Actually we did hunt smaller game with her .410 and .22. And that magically made her weight more than 100 lbs and 5 ft tall. We'll be back out turkey hunting next week. Ask her how upset she was about the turkey we let walk at 50 yds last year because she had the .410....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Man, you guys are starting to sound the 45 ACP crowd..... you can't CCW anything smaller. It's like tossing stones..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Man, you guys are starting to sound the 45 ACP crowd..... you can't CCW anything smaller. It's like tossing stones.....Some are like that. I'm a fan of the .380, myself, because concealment is more important to me in that case than an ethical kill. But then again, I don't hunt humans. Except with sarcasm. I do hunt humans with sarcasm. Muahwhahaha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Some are like that. I'm a fan of the .380, myself, because concealment is more important to me in that case than an ethical kill. But then again, I don't hunt humans. Except with sarcasm. I do hunt humans with sarcasm. Muahwhahaha.... I hear ya Joe Biden..... "Buy a double barrel 12g shotgun" Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccrory Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I hear ya Joe Biden..... "Buy a double barrel 12g shotgun" LolI have idea what you're trying to say there. That I'm Joe Biden because...? I think you're grasping, but I doubt it matters. You're coming off to me like someone more focused on your GF's hunting experience than the ethics of taking another sentient creature's life. How many other hunters are like you these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I have idea what you're trying to say there. That I'm Joe Biden because...? I think you're grasping, but I doubt it matters. You're coming off to me like someone more focused on your GF's hunting experience than the ethics of taking another sentient creature's life. How many other hunters are like you these days?I though you grasped sarcasm well...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Except with sarcasm. I do hunt humans with sarcasm. Muahwhahaha....Must be a mistake. ... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I have idea what you're trying to say there. That I'm Joe Biden because...? I think you're grasping, but I doubt it matters. You're coming off to me like someone more focused on your GF's hunting experience than the ethics of taking another sentient creature's life. How many other hunters are like you these days? Since we obviously missed the "a small person with a large caliber doesn't work well" reference (I thought the video would make the connection), I'll let you swap GF for nephew, because I have 7 of them that I'm sure will all hunt. So I should just throw my nephew on a 12g and say go for it? Or should I teach him with the .410 and let him build up to the 20 and 12g? EDIT: guess the video didn't post...... Edited April 12, 2014 by mango_sv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango_sv Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) http://youtu.be/jEG6im_0GFk Maybe Tapatalk won't let me link the video. EDIT: guess it does, don't know why it didn't the first time. Edited April 12, 2014 by mango_sv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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