Safe Room planning?

[madcat6183]

So the new house is going to be home for a long time, unless by some grace of God one of us gets relocated to somewhere like VT/NH/CO/MT, but in the meantime no plans to move until our son is graduated and moved on.

 

With that said, I've been thinking a lot about transitioning our walk in closet to a semi-safe room.  It's not a huge one as we also have a normal closet in our master bed, but about 8x8 or maybe 8x6 really.  It is currently finished with some stupid closet system that my wife and I both hate, so we plan to remodel it shortly anyways.  With that said I figure it'd be a perfect time to tear it down to the studs and remove the carpet and make it a safe room, or at least bullet proof, not so worried about fire/smoke as if that is the case we'll be leaving the house.  But in the rare instance we may have an intruder, I'd rather be over prepared then under.

 

So my questions is, I figure steel plating would be the cheapest, but no idea on thickness or anything as I've never shot steel.  I'd like to have it stop up to 7.62, as I figure that's probably the most intense firepower someone would have.  If they bring a tank, maybe we'll give up first.

 

I'd like to cover the walls, floor, and take it to almost the cieling or at least 6 feet high.  Would also probably have a "box" setup, to enclose the kid from any ricochets, not RPGs, just bouncing bullets.

 

I am actually serious about this and figure if we're going to tear it down anyways, might as well lose the 1 inch or so when we do it, and just "bite the bullet".  Nice ey?

 

Anyone have any idea what the cost of steal is for larger areas?  I am guessing not cheap, but have no idea really. 

 

Thoughts, helpful info, all would be appreciated. 

 

I've already priced bulletproof backpacks for when he goes to school, cheap, no big deal there.  Same with bulletproof clipboards, so he'll be plenty equipped with those when not home along with plenty of proper firearm and fleeing training both.

 

We already have our escape routes covered for flight vs. fight, and his room exits to a tree and the front street so feel pretty safe we'll never need any sort of safe room, but I bet a lot of people have said that and wish they had one at a later time. 

 

 

 

 

[e-flores]

I work for a metals supplier and to give you an idea for the metal a 1/4 60x120" piece of cold rolled carbon steel is going to run you around $300 a piece depending on the day. Cold rolled steel is close to ar500 plate steel as you can get without having a hard time sourcing it to as big as you would like. You can pick up plain old Cold rolled at any metals supplier in any area of ohio. If you would want to cut cost you may think of only bulletproofing the bottom 60" or 48" of the room. The standard sizes for the plate are 48x120 60x120 or 48x144 and 60x144. And those are going to be a bitch to hand carry anywhere.

[madcat6183]

I was also considering just doing the bottom few feet as well, or like a smaller section.  I definitely thought that steel price would be way higher then that though.  What's something like that weigh, no really lol?  Also how does it get cut to size per say.  Like say I wanted to do the floor in pcs, or walls in pcs.

 

Appreciate that info too.

Edited July 1, 2014 by madcat6183

[e-flores]

A full sheet will weigh you just over a couple hundred pounds. If you want it cut there are a few suppliers that will plasma or water jet something like that but I have no idea how much that will cost.

[Limitedslip7]

You're going to need to go thicker than that if you want to stop a 5.56 or 7.62 round, especially at nearly point blank range inside a house. Likely 1/2" thick at minimum, maybe even thicker. At that point you are going to have to take the structural loads into consideration. Is it on a concrete slab? Above a basement? At 1/2" thick, that's 650lb per 4x8' sheet. 

[MidgetTodd]

A 7.62 round will pierce everything Flores mentioned.

[Josh1234]

Just line the room with bulletproof backpacks and clipboards.

[ReconRat]

Level III

.308 Winchester Full Metal Jacket =
7.62 X 51 mm NATO
6 rounds at ~ 2,750 fps
( ~838 mps).

~1/4" Ballistic Steel (6 mm)
~1/2" Ceramic (13 mm)
~1" Polyethylene (25 mm)

 

Level IV

3006 Armor-Piercing
.30 M2 AP
One round at ~ 2,850 fps
(~869 mps)

The highest rating for Body Armor.

~ 3/4" Ceramic (18 mm)
~1/2" Ballistic Steel (12 mm) for vehicle armor (too heavy for Body Armor)

Or... the Army still uses three to five rows of sandbags to stop incoming fire for 30 minutes. In 30 minutes, continuous fire will break down the barrier. There are also ballistic blankets, but are only good for shrapnel and handgun fire. Not rifles.

 

Notice that 1 inch thick polyethylene works for basic usage.

 

edit: 4x8 foot 1 inch thick high density polyethylene is under 400 plus shipping

12x12 inch 1/2 inch tiles are about 14 bucks

Edited July 1, 2014 by ReconRat

[madcat6183]

Recon, English please  

 

From what I got ~1/4" Ballistic Steel (6 mm)

Is what I need?  

 

Either way, I want to stop a 556 or 762, at point blank.  I have the green light from wife so want to make this happen this summer before winter.  Yeah that was too easy.  

 

Josh thanks, but that isn't cost effective, he'll just have that at school and stuff like sleepovers.

 

Midget, you smell like spaghetti, I like it.  Are you going to tell Bowdog to buy my TH after this winter is over?  What plate thickness are you using at the range?  I m not overly worried about a 308 at point blank like I said, just 762, which is close I guess.

 

I actually have a guy that runs a machine shop and all that out of Mansfield and I know he has a water jet that cuts things as thick as axles so I think he's got me covered.  Totally forgot about him earlier.

 

Sounds like I need to borrow the FILs trailer and my truck when I pick it all up, but also need to do the teardown first and make sure I provide good measurements on studs and where I want holes drilled for mounting.

 

I think I am going to go 7 feet high, I figure the angle of any gun over that with a ceiling cannot ricochet enough to bounce back, and then surround the whole room and floor.

 

 

Next question; Wife said it's fine to make it fire/smoke proof, who the fuck do I talk to about a high powered exhaust fan?  HVAC guys?  Or someone who does fire extinguisher systems?  I have the 2nd option on speed dial but they do big shit like FedEx warehouse.  

 

Basically I think this is turning into Panic Room 2.0, I like it but damn I wanted to keep it basic originally.  But happy wife = happy life.  Just ask Maxpower, that little shit, going out of town for the 4th leaving Casper and I in Groveport to fend for ourselves.  Actually we aren't even going now, and neither is Casper and his wife and son all because of Maxpower.  well also because Luke sleeps like 6 hrs a night and we can't be out late.

 

Im drunk but I hope you get the gist of that.  I need to know what thickness I need to stop up to 762 at point blank and would love to pay Eflores for this so he can make some $$ on the side.

[MidgetTodd]

308 is 7.62

We had 1/2 steel at the house swinging on chains and pierced it all day long at 100 yards

[ReconRat]

Yes, it looks like 1/4 inch ballistic steel is a good choice. But repeated fire in just one spot will break through anything eventually. Heavy rifle will, anyway.

Edited July 2, 2014 by ReconRat

[Bubba]

You planning on installing this on the lowest level or on a slab?  The kind of weight you're talking needs to be checked for structural loading with respect to your construction details.  If you're planning on cladding a room over a floor joist construction, best get specs on current design loading, existing load specs, joist span from beam supports, etc.  If you're loading the basement steel support beam, get that spec'd also.  They ain't gonna need to shoot you if the room collapses into the basement and crushes you….

[madcat6183]

You planning on installing this on the lowest level or on a slab?  The kind of weight you're talking needs to be checked for structural loading with respect to your construction details.  If you're planning on cladding a room over a floor joist construction, best get specs on current design loading, existing load specs, joist span from beam supports, etc.  If you're loading the basement steel support beam, get that spec'd also.  They ain't gonna need to shoot you if the room collapses into the basement and crushes you….

That was a concern also, was hoping that the thickness wouldn't be that as much as it is.  May need to start looking into some lighter weight stuff or making the dimensions smaller.   Poop, my plans are getting ruined.

[e-flores]

308 is 7.62

We had 1/2 steel at the house swinging on chains and pierced it all day long at 100 yards

Wow that impressive. ... i would think half inch would be more than enough. That's pretty crazy.

[MidgetTodd]

Now I don't know exactly what steel it was made from, but none the less it was 1/2 and had several OR people out with AR and AK. All plates looked like Swiss cheese. I expected better. Flounder was out and brought plate also, AR500 I believe. It was pierced too, I think with a 300blk

[madcat6183]

Dang, didn't know that.

[vf1000ride]

I have rounds for my .30-06 that will punch up to 3/4 inch of regular steel. I have not tried it but they are rated to punch upwards of 3/8-1/2 inch of armor plate AR500 steel. Most things in normal life are bullet resistant. Bullet proof is a myth.

[mello dude]

Interesting thread... Ever consider Kevlar?

[jbot]

line it with phone books, biatch.

[ReconRat]

Kevl

 

Interesting thread... Ever consider Kevlar?

Kevlar works for handgun rounds. But not rifle rounds. Have to add a ceramic plate for that.

 

30-06 AP (armor piercing) is pretty much top dog. Next in line is old style 7.62x39 AK stuff that was steel case bullet and outlawed. Until you move up to 30cal and 50cal MG stuff.

Edited July 2, 2014 by ReconRat

[redkow97]

Have you considered installing a fire pole in the closet that takes you down to a basement panic room?

I know it sounds extreme, but the specifications you want are going to weigh far more than your floor can handle, and this seems simpler in the long run...

[mello dude]

Kevl

 

Kevlar works for handgun rounds. But not rifle rounds. Have to add a ceramic plate for that.

 

30-06 AP (armor piercing) is pretty much top dog. Next in line is old style 7.62x39 AK stuff that was steel case bullet and outlawed. Until you move up to 30cal and 50cal MG stuff.

So whadif -- this something I have been wondering about --  a combination of composite fibres, and figure out to get a ceramic weave in it and autoclave the thing? Probly simular to armoring a limo. 

[Casper]

Now I don't know exactly what steel it was made from, but none the less it was 1/2 and had several OR people out with AR and AK. All plates looked like Swiss cheese. I expected better. Flounder was out and brought plate also, AR500 I believe. It was pierced too, I think with a 300blk

We also threw how many rounds at it for how many hours?

[ReconRat]

So whadif -- this something I have been wondering about --  a combination of composite fibres, and figure out to get a ceramic weave in it and autoclave the thing? Probly simular to armoring a limo. 

ah, composite armor - something that mil-spec has been working on for decades. There would be a lot of testing to validate. Latest is really exotic polymers that flex and dissipate energy sideways. What you describe reminds me of Chobham armor on modern main battle tanks. Multi layers of who knows what since they won't quite ever tell. Something like 8 or more layers of steel, ceramic, and polymers.

 

For lighter weight it's hard to beat simple sheets of ballistic ceramic. Titanium also works. I've heard of work done with exotic weaves, but not sure if anything has developed from it yet.

[Josh1234]

Have you considered installing a fire pole in the closet that takes you down to a basement panic room?

I know it sounds extreme, but the specifications you want are going to weigh far more than your floor can handle, and this seems simpler in the long run...

 

Lots of other uses for a private pole that runs ceiling to floor, also