school supplies going too far?

[2talltim]

I know it's only $20 but it's the principal of it. And $20 here, $40 there, $100 around the corner it all adds up. With $60 in school fees, $120 for band camp, $140 pay to play fee, just say all supplies add up to about $60, and i can safely say another $75ish of other things i could sit here add up through out the year,  there is about $450 (ish) for one school year and that's just one kid, where does it end? Then a couple times a month the kids are bringing home fund raisers and shit they want you to donate to.

[Helmutt]

While I understand Tim's complaint of needing to buy an ITunes card as a school supply, the day and age has changed vastly since I was in school, too. My daughter will be a Senior this year, and the math alone is far superior to what I learned in HS/Tradeschool both. I learned the same precalc and basic trig my first year of college, but not as a highschool jr. May be good for the kids, developmentally....but I dont see it being a necessary curriculum for highschool kids that aren't taking any sort of advanced level math.

I do know a teen that is home schooled and is very socially immature for a 16 yr old. But in his defense, his parents are really controlling with what he is exposed to and they shield him from all types of violence/language/sex, he is basically clueless about anything mature. Sort of sad that he will likely end up caught in a mosh of emotion and exposure when/if he goes to college or gets a job

[Helmutt]

I know it's only $20 but it's the principal of it. And $20 here, $40 there, $100 around the corner it all adds up. With $60 in school fees, $120 for band camp, $140 pay to play fee, just say all supplies add up to about $60, and i can safely say another $75ish of other things i could sit here add up through out the year,  there is about $450 (ish) for one school year and that's just one kid, where does it end? Then a couple times a month the kids are bringing home fund raisers and shit they want you to donate to.

It's amazing what it costs anymore compared to how seemingly dirt cheap it was for us back in the late 70's and 80's. It would be cheaper for everyone of lower income households if school levy's were simply adjusted into everyone's taxes instead of being voted on, but that could definitely open a huge can o' worms in other aspects.

[2talltim]

On the home school topic: There was a guy i worked with that was home schooled his whole life and was VERY sheltered. He was very naive and awkward, never got the jokes, never fit in and really didnt know how to communicate with us or know how to take things we did or said. He is now in a registered sex offender ad served jail time because he fell for one of those "to catch a predator" stings where he thought he was hooking up with a 14 year old girl onine. And in my opinion i think he was so uncomfortable with women this is what he thought he had to do so seek companionship. NOT DEFENDING HIM IN ANY WAY, HE"S STILL A SICK FUCK. but i honestly think his social retardedness lead to it.

[2talltim]

It's amazing what it costs anymore compared to how seemingly dirt cheap it was for us back in the late 70's and 80's. It would be cheaper for everyone of lower income households if school levy's were simply adjusted into everyone's taxes instead of being voted on, but that could definitely open a huge can o' worms in other aspects.

I know sports are extra and not a required thing but i talked to a parent that had 2 kids in many sports and band and said the one school year where one child was a senior and the one was a freshman he shelled out over $3000 in fees and equipment. His boy played football, basketball, track and had all his senior thing to do. And his daughter was in band, vollyball, and softball. So if you dont have that kind of money how can you tell your kid no? I'm glad i don't have that problem, my kids can do what ever they want and ill find a way.

Edited August 1, 2014 by 2talltim

[Tpoppa]

On the home school topic: There was a guy i worked with that was home schooled his whole life and was VERY sheltered. He was very naive and awkward, never got the jokes, never fit in and really didnt know how to communicate with us or know how to take things we did or said. He is now in a registered sex offender ad served jail time because he fell for one of those "to catch a predator" stings where he thought he was hooking up with a 14 year old girl onine. And in my opinion i think he was so uncomfortable with women this is what he thought he had to do so seek companionship. NOT DEFENDING HIM IN ANY WAY, HE"S STILL A SICK FUCK. but i honestly think his social retardedness lead to it.

Wow.  That's a pretty extreme case.  Who knows how differently he would have turned out if he wasn't so sheltered and developed this skill to build social relationships when he was school aged.  

 

I know someone who was home schooled and very poorly adjusted socially.  He was book smart, but very uncomfortable in social situations.  In his middle teens he became convinced that he was his own reincarnated sister (she died in a miscarriage about a year before he was born).  He actually uses his sisters name and lives his life as if he was her now, bizarre.  Is his case, I blame over protective parents that felt there were to many bad influences out in the normal world.  His bother and living sister aren't so weird, but do have social anxiety and do not like being in large groups of people.

[Connie14]

Overly sheltered kids will never learn the value of a slump buster. The poor souls. That is definitely one of the keys to a successful college life.

Tim, at least your kids are nearing the end of their schooling. Costs are only going to increase with time. Before you know it, your kids will be adults.

[smccrory]

Well, since home-schooling didn't turn out to be off topic, I'll indulge a moment about school funding. ;-)

 

Nobody here had better complain about high pay-to-play costs and academic fees while simultaneously voting along teapublican lines in opposition of school levies.  The economic reality is that someone has to pay to educate our kids, so when levies are shot down, direct costs go up.  It's basic physics, man.  We saw it swing dramatically in Westerville several years ago when a badly needed levy failed and as a result, pay-to-play fees almost doubled overnight.  Only more affluent families were able to involve their kids in sports, which was a real shame because some of the most in-need kids were ones not getting strong parental guidance at home, and there they were - disenfranchised and left with extra time on their hands.  As a high-school nerd, I never fully appreciated the impact that great coaches and sports programs can have on a young person, but I've seen it first-hand as a grown-up.

[Casper]

Well, since home-schooling didn't turn out to be off topic, I'll indulge a moment about school funding. ;-)

Nobody here had better complain about high pay-to-play costs and academic fees while simultaneously voting along teapublican lines in opposition of school levies. The economic reality is that someone has to pay to educate our kids, so when levies are shot down, direct costs go up. It's basic physics, man. We saw it swing dramatically in Westerville several years ago when a badly needed levy failed and as a result, pay-to-play fees almost doubled overnight. Only more affluent families were able to involve their kids in sports, which was a real shame because some of the most in-need kids were ones not getting strong parental guidance at home, and there they were - disenfranchised and left with extra time on their hands. As a high-school nerd, I never fully appreciated the impact that great coaches and sports programs can have on a young person, but I've seen it first-hand as a grown-up.

Imagine this point of view instead:

The average public school superintendent makes $225,000 - $275,000. The average high school football team has 53 players on the roster. If the pay-to-play fee is $500, that's $26,500.

If the schools REALLY cared about the sports and the kids, I think they could find places to pull it from.

But hey, why make concessions and spend your budget wisely when you can just guilt the public into passing levies and continue making your fat salary?

What happened to the days of the football team, band, choir, etc doing fundraisers to pay for their program? We sold wreaths around Christmas, mulch in the spring, and did car washes in the summer. The community willingly gave these programs money. I don't know how it is in most places, but I haven't seem this in years.

[Helmutt]

Ridiculous. Sounds like the supers need to kick back half of their salary to fund all of the sports programs

[smccrory]

Imagine this point of view instead:

The average public school superintendent makes $225,000 - $275,000. The average high school football team has 53 players on the roster. If the pay-to-play fee is $500, that's $26,500.

If the schools REALLY cared about the sports and the kids, I think they could find places to pull it from.

But hey, why make concessions and spend your budget wisely when you can just guilt the public into passing levies and continue making your fat salary?

What happened to the days of the football team, band, choir, etc doing fundraisers to pay for their program? We sold wreaths around Christmas, mulch in the spring, and did car washes in the summer. The community willingly gave these programs money. I don't know how it is in most places, but I haven't seem this in years.

 

Casper I know, that sounds like a fat salary but remember what every CEO makes - 5x or more for a similarly-sized company.  Is their job THAT much more valuable to society than educating the people who will be making decisions for us when we're too feeble to carry their asses?  Heck, these days you can readily make $250k a level or two down in a company with more than 1000 employees.  Personally, you couldn't pay me $250k to balance the needs of student education, life safety, constant personnel challenges, labor unions, ignorant parents, fuel costs, facility planning, community relations and a shit-ton of liability to mitigate.  I bet none of us here could do that job, so why should we be any less critical of 6-digit corporate salaries than of public ones?  Can't we as a society come to the realization that teaching (and running a school district) is fucking hard work and deserves commensurate pay?  Not every teacher is as stupid, cranky and unfair as the proverbial Mrs. Crabtree who was older than dirt, so it's not appropriate to punish other teachers for that time we were embarrassed in front of the class for writing a bad essay.

 

And of course not everyone in a district makes that kind of money - my kid's history teacher makes $54k/yr and he's been at it for 10 years.  By contrast, I know a college intern in I.T. who was offered a job last week for $45k right out of school and will likely hit $60-70k in 5 years.  I think more often than not, people get to SEE public salaries, and feel jealous and justify an extra case of beer (or finance a $25k motorcycle) instead of giving their neighbors a competitive salary with $10/mo more taxes.  Plus, it's easier to bark "no" from the bleachers, complain about stupid kids and how society is becoming self-indulgent (I wonder if that irony will be lost) than it is to invest time and money to improve things.  You know that Tonik and I have had some lively exchanges about it and he has great points especially about Cleveland's district, but the perspective I'm critical of is worlds less informed.

 

But I get it, I have neighbors who truly are struggling to keep up with tax increases with their fixed retirement incomes.  In fact, one neighbor I'm close to is never more than a month away from missed utility bills because she failed to save a dime for her retirement and now lives on social security and a small PERS benefit.

 

Our school has fundraisers, and they're helpful, but like your comparison, you gotta sell a LOT of magazines, cookie dough, car washes and brownies (not the Colorado type unfortunately) to make even a small dent in a program's costs, plus those fundraisers are already depended upon.

[Casper]

Casper I know, that sounds like a fat salary but remember what every CEO makes - 5x or more for a similarly-sized company. Is their job THAT much more valuable to society than educating the people who will be making decisions for us when we're too feeble to carry their asses? Heck, these days you can readily make $250k a level or two down in a company with more than 1000 employees. Personally, you couldn't pay me $250k to balance the needs of student education, life safety, constant personnel challenges, labor unions, ignorant parents, fuel costs, facility planning, community relations and a shit-ton of liability to mitigate. I bet none of us here could do that job, so why should we be any less critical of 6-digit corporate salaries than of public ones? Can't we as a society come to the realization that teaching (and running a school district) is fucking hard work and deserves commensurate pay? Not every teacher is as stupid, cranky and unfair as the proverbial Mrs. Crabtree who was older than dirt, so it's not appropriate to punish other teachers for that time we were embarrassed in front of the class for writing a bad essay.

And of course not everyone in a district makes that kind of money - my kid's history teacher makes $54k/yr and he's been at it for 10 years. By contrast, I know a college intern in I.T. who was offered a job last week for $45k right out of school and will likely hit $60-70k in 5 years. I think more often than not, people get to SEE public salaries, and feel jealous and justify an extra case of beer (or finance a $25k motorcycle) instead of giving their neighbors a competitive salary with $10/mo more taxes. Plus, it's easier to bark "no" from the bleachers, complain about stupid kids and how society is becoming self-indulgent (I wonder if that irony will be lost) than it is to invest time and money to improve things. You know that Tonik and I have had some lively exchanges about it and he has great points especially about Cleveland's district, but the perspective I'm critical of is worlds less informed.

But I get it, I have neighbors who truly are struggling to keep up with tax increases with their fixed retirement incomes. In fact, one neighbor I'm close to is never more than a month away from missed utility bills because she failed to save a dime for her retirement and now lives on social security and a small PERS benefit.

Our school has fundraisers, and they're helpful, but like your comparison, you gotta sell a LOT of magazines, cookie dough, car washes and brownies (not the Colorado type unfortunately) to make even a small dent in a program's costs, plus those fundraisers are already depended upon.

Sure, but they aren't CEOs of huge profitable corporations. They're heads of underperforming (on a global scale) public institutions.

[smccrory]

Sure, but they aren't CEOs of huge profitable corporations. They're heads of underperforming (on a global scale) public institutions.

You don't need to be profitable to make $250k. Or $1MM. Or $25MM. Or even make a "product" that fuels our country's growth in science, infrastructure, health, business and culture.

And we're going to make US schools perform better by cutting their funding? How's that supposed to work?

[Casper]

You don't need to be profitable to make $250k. Or $1MM. Or $25MM. Or even make a "product" that fuels our country's growth in science, infrastructure, health, business and culture.

And we're going to make US schools perform better by cutting their funding? How's that supposed to work?

Many (especially the large inner city and suburban) districts have plenty of funding. That's the point. They simply don't spend it well. I've contracted for several local school districts over the years. The amount of waste is incredible. The entire education system needs an overhaul.

For the record, I'm an advocate of one state level school system broken into regions. Equal funding per child. Vouchers for anyone. No more rich vs poor public school divisions. Every child in public education should have an equal opportunity to learn. The savings of having consolidated HR, IT, accounting, etc would be mind boggling. And furthermore, school taxes should not be based on home values. It would be a flat tax or other variant.

[smccrory]

Could work. Devil would be in the details of course. And you'd have to deal with folks saying you were making a governmental power grab.

[Tpoppa]

Salary attracts talent, plain and simple.  CEO and executives of non-profit hospitals make large 7 figure salaries.  Why should a superintentent be any different?  People like to shake their fists at something they see as a high salary.  Seriously, the superintendents salary is such a small, insignificant % of the district budget...it's not even part the problem.  If a shcool district lowers the pay they are willing to offer, they can expect the more talented applicants to look elsewhere.  It's just how it is.

 

In the media there has been talk of limiting CEO salaries.  If that happened (it won't), talented CEO's would look for more lucritive jobs outside the US and the less talented ones would remain in the US.  It would cause more problems that is solves.   

[bloodninja420]

I think part of the problem with superintendent pay as it relates to schools is that public schools are so heavily regulated in terms of curriculum, union labor force, etc., that the superintendent isn't really able to move the dial one way or another. It's a commodotized job.. probably the main differentiator is a superintendent's PR skills in keeping up staff morale and community outreach.

Teacher pay is the big money sink, though. When you have 200 qualified applicants applying for every public school opening, you know something is out of wack with pay. Unions have done a great job for their incumbent members.

[ohiomike]

Our school system is adjacent to the city school system which just built a new high school and is finishing up building all new for the elementary and middle schools.  So, our schools now want to build new.  Instead of being considerate of upping taxes and build in stages so the cost is spread out, they instead want it all in one shebang, so the proposal will up our yearly taxes by over $400!  Then they will ask for the parents to supply things like on the list the op showed.  A few years back when my daughter had her kids in Circleville schools, she was given an even longer list of things to provide, then on top of that, a $25 per child fee was being required.  Plus she had to pay school taxes on top of that.

 

Talk about a real need for reform.  These people running these schools need a run in with reality if you ask me.

[ReconRat]

Maybe it's for podcasts. Actual learning. That would be ok.

[Earache]

......  A few years back when my daughter had her kids in Circleville schools, she was given an even longer list of things to provide, then on top of that, a $25 per child fee was being required.  Plus she had to pay school taxes on top of that.

 

Talk about a real need for reform.  These people running these schools need a run in with reality if you ask me.

Nobody forced ya to have kids.  (not trying to be mean there - sorry if it reads that way).

 

I've lived in the same school district for over 25 years and have paid the highest taxes in the state for that school system. They've built a shitload of new schools in the district as well. And I was unfortunate to have been here to pay for it all.

 

The sad part? I don't even have fuckin' kids! Have never stepped a foot into a school building here.  

[ohiomike]

Nobody forced ya to have kids.  (not trying to be mean there - sorry if it reads that way).

 

I've lived in the same school district for over 25 years and have paid the highest taxes in the state for that school system. They've built a shitload of new schools in the district as well. And I was unfortunate to have been here to pay for it all.

 

The sad part? I don't even have fuckin' kids! Have never stepped a foot into a school building here.  

Shoot, my kids are probably as old as, or older than you....lol.  So that was in a different time.  Plus where I lived then we paid property taxes that also paid for the schools and salaries for teachers and admins.  It was also consistent across the state.  We also never got 'lists' of things we had to supply or charges for a 'per child' attendance.  When they built new schools in our district, they did one school at a time so they could spread the cost out and not hit property owners with such huge increases.  I know many of these changes are because of the economy and all, but that same economy hits the homeowners as well.  If only the school district would take this into consideration instead of wanting it all right now.  It might actually get voted in.