Honda RC213V-S

[Tpoppa]

Agree to disagree.  

Pretty much every review of the FZ-09 mentions the fueling issues.  It has nothing to do with newer riders.

 

Also, in the spring compare the resale value of a 2 or 3 year old (outdated) cbr600 to a more modern design  like a zx6r.  The Honda sells for more...and it isn't even close.  

Edited November 16, 2014 by Tpoppa

[zx3vfr]

And every forum review says that magazine editors are turd muffins for complaining about the fueling. Even BMW cars after using throttle by wire for nearly 20 years now and not even using the throttle control aiflow today... Yes there is always a stumble. That's like some wine tasting professional dick head saying a 13$ bottle of wine is shit when 99.9% of people will enjoy it.

[turnone]

And every forum review says that magazine editors are turd muffins for complaining about the fueling. Even BMW cars after using throttle by wire for nearly 20 years now and not even using the throttle control aiflow today... Yes there is always a stumble. That's like some wine tasting professional dick head saying a 13$ bottle of wine is shit when 99.9% of people will enjoy it.

To be fair there is a lot more slop that would go unnoticed in a car vs bike simply due to power/weight ratio. If your 3500-4000# car is slightly abrupt during on/off/on throttle transitions, would you feel it? Would it upset the vehicle as much?

Never ridden the bike in question but manufacturers have been fighting this issue likely forever, but it happened again during the FI revolution and again with the throttle by wire (instead of cable) transition. My first year RC-51 FI was touchy as a first year FI bike. Interestingly it had a manual fuel enrichment knob.

Seems to me that manufacturers just get it close enough to get the product to market.

Edited November 17, 2014 by turnone

[Tpoppa]

and the suspension not being as good as a first gen SV.. thats laughable.  the fz suspension isn't great, but a set of springs and its pretty good. at least it is inverted forks unlike the damper rod setup in the first ten and current SV.  

 

One bad review I can discount as maybe the particular reviewer just didn't like it.  But, when all reviews point out the same flaw I tend to believe them.

 

I get that it's a price point bike, but it doesn't cost more to get the spring rates and damping rates correct.  Yamaha did a better job with the FZ07, which is at an even lower price point.

 

Do me a favor, find some SV reviews or an SV rider that discribes it's handling as:

http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2014-yamaha-fz-09-long-term-test

 

"It’s also basically un-rideable and feels like it could be trying to kill me.

"The suspension is way too soft and gets unsorted incredibly easy, and the front end dives to almost comical lengths under any sort of braking."

"However, I kid you not when I say that I weigh under 150 pounds, and it seems a little ridiculous that I should ever be trying to stiffen suspension settings on any stock motorcycle."

"Trying to hustle this thing through the twisties is an exercise in both cojones and skill, as most rider inputs and any imperfection in the road set the chassis a-wobbling, which becomes quite unsettling."

"The alternative is to spend around $2,500 to improve the suspension, brakes and fueling on the FZ-09, which means a little higher cost overall for the Yamaha."

 

It's a good platform with lots of potential, unfortunately it has unsorted suspension and fueling.  

Edited November 17, 2014 by Tpoppa

[Moto-Brian]

The number of FZ09s that are shown nationwide tells a different story.  Remember one simple thing - the internet forums are where people typically post negative or poor experiences.  The people that have good experiences typically do not ever post them.  So, the weight is in favor of issues being posted...

 

The bike is a solid selling unit and that is MIC data which are registered to customers that you guys do not see. 

[Hoblick]

I have had the pleasure to ride an FZ 09 this past summer for a bit, and i will say.. dollar for dollar, that is an amazing bike.  you cannot buy a new bike for the money thats better IMO.. atleast in that platform.

that motor is a peach, and the chassis is damn good.  the brakes are what you'd expect on a budget bike, and the suspension as well for that price point.  but that engine, my god.  just amazing.

 

the owner of the bike had me do install a Penske shock and Traxxion Dynamics Cartridge kit, it transformed that bike.  i don't think the brakes are terrible, but they are not on par with a super sport bike.  i think they are SS brake lines away from being good, if it were me id do SS lines and a R^ master cylinder and i think there would be no complaint.

 

 

if i owned the bike and was on a budget, a simple fork spring upgrade, and a different used OEM shock would be a low cost solution, and would be great.

 

but still even if you spent the money that my customer did you would still be under 10k for a brand new machine with top of the line shock, forks, and an amazing suspension.

 

 

anyways since when does anyone leave stuff stock?

 

Yamaha offered a low entry cost bike that is an amazing performer and a great base to make a killer bike.

 

 

if it had premium suspension and brakes it would cost 12k or more.  Then everyone would bitch about the price.

[Tpoppa]

Agreed.  It's a ton of bike for $8k.  I wasn't quoting random internet complainers.  It's a long term test article, which should carry more credibility. 

[Hoblick]

Agreed.  It's a ton of bike for $8k.  I wasn't quoting random internet complainers.  It's a long term test article, which should carry more credibility. 

ride one and decide for yourself.  i think you'd be surprised

[Tpoppa]

I know what bike you worked on.

 

I've sat on a few.  I can tell you that the stock suspension is not as good as even a a Suzuki Gladius (which is actually pretty good by budget standards).

 

I think Yamaha could have kept the same price point while better sorting the suspension.  Like they did on the FZ07.

[Hoblick]

I know what bike you worked on.

 

I've sat on a few.  I can tell you that the stock suspension is not as good as even a a Suzuki Gladius (which is actually pretty good by budget standards).

 

I think Yamaha could have kept the same price point while better sorting the suspension.  Like they did on the FZ07.

 

sitting on one and riding one is 2 totally different things.

you can't tell how a suspension works by sitting on a bike

[Steve Butters]

Lol first yall are hating on boring beginner bikes, and now you're jerking off to a cheap beginner bike...I love yamaha, like I said it's my favorite manufacturer, but nothing about the fz09 impresses me... I paid 1k more for my cb1k new off showroom floor, and it beats out the fz09 in every category... Even low end torque... And I'm not riding around on a bike that feels like a wet noodle

As far as fueling... I can't think of many stock bikes with good fueling, so that's kind of a null point.. I think US emissions regulations are to blame for that

[Tpoppa]

sitting on one and riding one is 2 totally different things.

you can't tell how a suspension works by sitting on a bike

I appreciate your opinion.   Yes I can on a beginner bike with limited suspension adjustment.  It's not terribly difficult.    Specifically spring rate and rebound I can tell with certainty if it will get unsettled by mid corner bumps.

 

I would't make that same claim on a bike with high end suspension.  Although, I would expect to be able to dial out any bad habits with proper adjustability.

[Tpoppa]

Lol first yall are hating on boring beginner bikes, and now you're jerking off to a cheap beginner bike...I love yamaha, like I said it's my favorite manufacturer, but nothing about the fz09 impresses me... I paid 1k more for my cb1k new off showroom floor, and it beats out the fz09 in every category... Even low end torque... And I'm not riding around on a bike that feels like a wet noodle

As far as fueling... I can't think of many stock bikes with good fueling, so that's kind of a null point.. I think US emissions regulations are to blame for that

 

I think the CB1R is a spot on example for this conversation.

 

Honda's design for the CB1R is a bit more conservative than say a Z1K.  Honda could have built it with class leading power if they chose to...they didn't.

What Honda did decide to build they executed quite nicely and it's a refined package.  In the hands of skilled riders, a stock CB1R can leave a stock FZ09 for dead in the twisties...and it should.

[Moto-Brian]

Agreed.  It's a ton of bike for $8k.  I wasn't quoting random internet complainers.  It's a long term test article, which should carry more credibility. 

 

 

But it is one long term test article.  The bike is a high seller for Yamaha.  If the word on the street was that it was a pile, people wouldn't be buying it...

[Moto-Brian]

I appreciate your opinion.   Yes I can on a beginner bike with limited suspension adjustment.  It's not terribly difficult.    Specifically spring rate and rebound I can tell with certainty if it will get unsettled by mid corner bumps.

 

I would't make that same claim on a bike with high end suspension.  Although, I would expect to be able to dial out any bad habits with proper adjustability.

 

I will agree you can possibly note lower end performance of suspension by bouncing the forks and pushing down on the seat.  But no way you can determine how it will handle mid corner by doing so.  You haven't even talked chassis.  The chassis can assist or even harm performance while the bike is moving.  Especially mid corner.

 

If you are that good a suspension whisperer, you'd make a shit pile of money coming to the track and sitting on bikes and determining the mid corner ability or lack thereof...

[Hoblick]

I appreciate your opinion.   Yes I can on a beginner bike with limited suspension adjustment.  It's not terribly difficult.    Specifically spring rate and rebound I can tell with certainty if it will get unsettled by mid corner bumps.

 

I would't make that same claim on a bike with high end suspension.  Although, I would expect to be able to dial out any bad habits with proper adjustability.

well then id love to see what you'd think on a new hypermotard base model, they have little to no fork adjustments, but the spring rates are to high.  sitting on it it feels like it would be good, but riding it you can tell it has to high a spring rate, and bounces you all over the place, and isn't as stable in corners as it should be.

 

most bikes have to low of spring rate, I've done i don't know how many suspension setups, and more often than not i suggest stiffer springs for the forks.  stock springs rates are on average for a 130# rider in my experience.  when you have to crank the preload nearly to its limit is not a good thing.  yeah you can get the sag set correctly, but then you have to try and dial in the damping to compensate for that spring tension you created, which is not ideal, and most times the damping isn't good enough to compensate for that.

[Hoblick]

 

If you are that good a suspension whisperer, you'd make a shit pile of money coming to the track and sitting on bikes and determining the mid corner ability or lack thereof...

 

i don't usually agree with brian on things, but this i do

[Tpoppa]

I will agree you can possibly note lower end performance of suspension by bouncing the forks and pushing down on the seat.  But no way you can determine how it will handle mid corner by doing so.  You haven't even talked chassis.  The chassis can assist or even harm performance while the bike is moving.  Especially mid corner.

 

If you are that good a suspension whisperer, you'd make a shit pile of money coming to the track and sitting on bikes and determining the mid corner ability or lack thereof...

 

It's pretty easy to "predict" how budget suspension will behave when approaching max lean angles on bumpy Ohio roads.  I can do it, I'll bet you can too.  Answer:  they're all crappy  Some are worse than others.  All would benefit from suspension upgrades, some absolutely require it for any kind of serious sport riding.

 

I'm pretty confident that I can dial in any bike that can be dialed in.  But I know street riding, not track.  Max braking and WOT corner exits have different setup requirements than what is typically encountered on the street...even aggressive street riding.

[Tpoppa]

well then id love to see what you'd think on a new hypermotard base model, they have little to no fork adjustments, but the spring rates are to high.  sitting on it it feels like it would be good, but riding it you can tell it has to high a spring rate, and bounces you all over the place, and isn't as stable in corners as it should be.

 

most bikes have to low of spring rate, I've done i don't know how many suspension setups, and more often than not i suggest stiffer springs for the forks.  stock springs rates are on average for a 130# rider in my experience.  when you have to crank the preload nearly to its limit is not a good thing.  yeah you can get the sag set correctly, but then you have to try and dial in the damping to compensate for that spring tension you created, which is not ideal, and most times the damping isn't good enough to compensate for that.

 

Bring it by.  We'll get it sorted.  There are lot's of bikes where you just aren't going to get sag set correctly (per typical standards) with stock suspension but you can still get the handling to behave quite nicely.  Ignore sag on the HM.  One of the best street/track riders I've ever known told me that softer is faster...meaning just firm enough to dial out bad habits.  He was right

i don't usually agree with brian on things, but this i do

I'm too busy making shit piles of money other ways.  

Edited November 17, 2014 by Tpoppa

[Tpoppa]

well then id love to see what you'd think on a new hypermotard base model, they have little to no fork adjustments, but the spring rates are to high.  sitting on it it feels like it would be good, but riding it you can tell it has to high a spring rate, and bounces you all over the place, and isn't as stable in corners as it should be.

 

most bikes have to low of spring rate, I've done i don't know how many suspension setups, and more often than not i suggest stiffer springs for the forks.  stock springs rates are on average for a 130# rider in my experience.  when you have to crank the preload nearly to its limit is not a good thing.  yeah you can get the sag set correctly, but then you have to try and dial in the damping to compensate for that spring tension you created, which is not ideal, and most times the damping isn't good enough to compensate for that.

 

In all seriousness...this sounds like an interesting challenge...the bike not you

 

What are the recommended settings and how do you have it set up currently?  Are you setting it up for street or track riding?

[Hoblick]

In all seriousness...this sounds like an interesting challenge...the bike not you

 

What are the recommended settings and how do you have it set up currently?  Are you setting it up for street or track riding?

I don't own one. I had a hyper SP with the better suspension. My friend had the base.

But really who are you. Dave Moss