JIS screwdriver changes

[ReconRat]

This will be confusing to discuss...

From what I've seen, while looking at JIS screwdriver sets, the standards have changed once again. JIS screwdrivers might not be marked or sold any longer as JIS. The JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) for them was discontinued, due to newer production methods that supposedly work for all fasteners that look like Phillips. But the JIS standard still applies to the production of the JIS hardware itself. Supposedly. What I think happens, is that regular Phillips still don't fit some hardware very well, some times. To add to the confusion, there is a newer standard, that might or might not be used in manufacturing. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1. All I get out of the new standard, is that it is very close to the old JIS. Adding to the confusion, motorcycle manufacturing might use the old JIS hardware, or the newer, maybe, or maybe not. What will remain true, is that if you run across a sloppy fit, which is most likely the old hardware (or perhaps even the newest standards), you will need either the JIS or the DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 screwdriver. Especially if you own an older bike, like before 1980 or certainly 1970.

Here's a bit of a forum article that compares the Phillips vs. JIS vs. DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1

And this, from WebBikeWorld on the subject, where the comments are worth reading. Although they were completely confused by the situation as well.

And I think Hosan JIS screwdriver sets are junk. I suspect the current Vessel sets will work for just about everything. The Vessel sets are no longer advertised as being JIS.

I have older JIS screwdrivers, and a JIS T-handle bit set that the bits work with the impact driver. I just picked up what I hope is old stock JIS Vessel, for a "yankee" right angle bit ratchet, and a handle with 4 reversible JIS bits. Much of what appears to be the "old" JIS is going out of stock.

[ReconRat]

I also have a Reed #2 screwdriver, which is only used in rare situations in aviation....

And some mini sets of tiny tools, that are JIS, for working on Japanese electronics. If you've ever worked on Sony, or a Japanese camera, you have to have those.

Edited October 2, 2020 by ReconRat

[ReconRat]

ok, just bought these, since most impact stuff is done on #2 and #3. A set of two metal ratcheting screwdrivers from Vessel that you can hit with a hammer. Rarely got the larger impact drivers out anyway for much of anything, unless it got mushed up or stuck.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZK6V1GQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

[MSerfozo]

Funny, I just replied in the Chinese Grom thread about this.

Another vote for Vessel crosshead drivers.  Best I've ever used.  I have both of those impact drivers you just ordered.

From my research, JIS has merged with DIN to reduce confusion since they were almost exactly the same anyway.  Phillips is the same as it has always been.  If you only work on Japanese or European bikes & cars, throw out your Craftsman and Snap-On Phillips drivers, they just don't fit the screw heads.

Vessel has adopted the new, more universal standard, at least for advertising purposes.  I have some of the older JIS and some newer but I haven't used the newer ones enough to be able to tell if there's any difference.

Here's how well a Vessel tip fits.  Yes, that is a 150mm #2 being supported in a hose clamp screw by the tip only!

 

[ReconRat]

Yup, I keep reading that is the test. Fit the blade in the hardware, and it holds itself up, it's that much of a fit improvement. Throwback story... Back before people realized the difference. When people mushed up case fasteners frequently, I'd use a little metal drift and hammer the fastener kinda closed. Those old fasteners were rather soft anyway. And then hammer in an impact driver bit for a tight fit. That worked almost every time, but you have to throw the fastener away.

[MSerfozo]

Throwing those screws away was always the best choice even if they weren't damaged.  I remember back in my motocross days, the local shops used to sell hex head replacement kits.

 

Funny story

About 6 months ago, I decided I liked my Vessel crosshead drivers so well that I jumped on Amazon and ordered a set that had flat and crossheads so I could take my Crapsman drivers to work.  In a rare Amazon shipping snafu, the order got damaged and was delayed.

I was showing the Amazon link to a friend who also likes nice tools and he asked if I could order a set for him so I did.

Then a week later, Amazon told me my 1st order, was cancelled so I ordered again and got them in the usual 2 days.  I had now ordered the same set 3 times in 3 weeks.

Then, a week after all this, Alexa lit up and told me, "Based on your order history, you might need to order a Vessel screwdriver set."  😎

 

[ReconRat]

The sad part about those hex head fastener replacement kits, is that many of them were stainless steel. Which when installed, in contact with aluminum, causes the aluminum to rot away, from the dielectric potential between the two metals. I remember putting stainless hardware on an aluminum license plate, only to see huge holes appear in the aluminum, and ruining the license plate. Even with plain steel, I'd dip them in primer paint, or loctite, or something, to slow it down. That was the technique in aerospace assembly. Dip the mismatched fasteners in zinc oxide primer before installing them. Or even for same metal assembly. Saw it mostly done for rivets in aluminum structure.

edit: also remember putting one of those aluminum company parking stickers on a chrome bumper, and having the sticker burn a square hole right through the chrome and steel bumper. Did not expect that...

re-edit: putting fluids on fasteners will alter the torque requirements. I don't remember the details. Another something to look up.

Edited October 7, 2020 by ReconRat

[motocat12]

wet carbon fiber attacks aluminum too.

[Pauly]

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/bolt-torque-load-calculator-d_2065.html

[ReconRat]

1 hour ago, Pauly said:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/bolt-torque-load-calculator-d_2065.html

That will work. Some of the fluids are listed on another page. A typical 40% reduction is proper, except for very slippery fluids like graphite.

 https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torque-lubrication-effects-d_1693.html