Hillary is done

[NinjaNick]

so the man's father was of muslim descent, should that be used against him?

...

YES!

Our forefathers would be so pissed if they've seen what this nation has become. It's time for a change and Obama isn't it! People make fun of his name because THEY CAN! Plus the irony is too close to not bash on him AFTER you realize he's not the one you want to win. I personally don't care about his feelings if I make fun of him, as I'm sure he doesn't care that I do.

I don't like ANY of the candidates now, but if all else fails, I would rather have McCain. *sigh*

[Disclaimer]

...

Our forefathers would be so pissed if they've seen what this nation has become....

Can you elaborate on this? I want to know, specifically, some of the major issues they would be pissed about, and what justification you have for this line of reasoning... then we shall discuss.

[Fonzie]

Can you elaborate on this? I want to know, specifically, some of the major issues they would be pissed about, and what justification you have for this line of reasoning... then we shall discuss.

Here's a topic for starters Justin....The Patriot Act & Homeland Security

How do you think the founding fathers would've felt about us giving up some of our "unalienable rights" in the name of safety?!?

Isn't it Franklin that's got that quote about "Any person who gives up their freedom for a little safety shall have neither"?

[magley64]

Our forefathers would be so pissed if they've seen what this nation has become.

I'd also like to see the rationality here...

[psyco1]

You mean like giving corporations the same rights as people? Yea, I don't think they were for that.

I'm pretty sure they were against starting wars of aggression too, but that went out the door in the 1840's in Mexico.

[Disclaimer]

Here's a topic for starters Justin....The Patriot Act & Homeland Security

How do you think the founding fathers would've felt about us giving up some of our "unalienable rights" in the name of safety?!?

Isn't it Franklin that's got that quote about "Any person who gives up their freedom for a little safety shall have neither"?

I am in complete agreement with you on that one.... we are heading toward a police state - which is a whole other thread we can debate on privacy issues. Even though I don't have anything to hide, I don't want the gov't rummaging through my garbage because I said something inflammatory, or something that can be, at best, vaguely construed as terrorism. Speaking of, did any of you see this article? http://www.boingboing.net/2008/05/30/tshirt-with-picture.html If this is what the worlds coming to, it's fuggin' ridiculous.

But I quoted Nick because he quoted something in the Muslim / religious context and I wanted to get further clarification from him on what exactly he meant by quoting that comment followed by the 'forefathers' statement. I'll give anyone an opportunity to clearly state their meanings before I jump to any conclusions on their logic / views - even Nick, knowing we've had many internet disagreements on each of our morals/values.

I didn't want to infer he was a racist, or discriminatory against anyone that is not a pure-bred caucasian Christian, unless he cares to make that statement himself. Which, from the other thread - I took that he isn't even that religious, so - I don't see why black/white, Muslim/Christian, male/female even matters in the context of our discussion.

[max power]

OH GOD NO, wouldn't wanna throw the race card when talking about Obama. His sheep throw the race card whenever someone speaks against him.

Not supporting the man doesn't make you a racist, it just means that you see through him and his lack of political experience. It also means that you have done your research.

[John]

lack of political experience.

obama has six years in the illinois senate, and four in the US senate, for a total of ten years.

hil dog has been a senator for like 8 years...

so im not exactly sure how he has a "lack of political experience."

as for experience, here is something to chew on:

bush was governor for less than 5 years before he was elected president. before that he ran for congress (and lost), ran an oil company that couldnt find any oil in texas and went bankrupt right after he sold all his stock. then he bought the Texas Rangers baseball team where his best move was trading sammy sosa to chicago.

[max power]

obama has six years in the illinois senate, and four in the US senate, for a total of ten years.

hil dog has been a senator for like 8 years...

so im not exactly sure how he has a "lack of political experience."

as for experience, here is something to chew on:

bush was governor for less than 5 years before he was elected president. before that he ran for congress (and lost), ran an oil company that couldnt find any oil in texas and went bankrupt right after he sold all his stock. then he bought the Texas Rangers baseball team where his best move was trading sammy sosa to chicago.

You just proved my point. Thank you.

I don't recall saying that Hillary was qualified either.

[fusion]

You just proved my point. Thank you.

I don't recall saying that Hillary was qualified either.

Who is qualified enough to get your vote?

[InyaAzz]

OH GOD NO, wouldn't wanna throw the race card when talking about Obama. His sheep throw the race card whenever someone speaks against him.

Not supporting the man doesn't make you a racist, it just means that you see through him and his lack of political experience. It also means that you have done your research.

If you ask me, his lack of experience makes him a better candidate. The 'experience' you speak of, has us in the mess we are in now.

Let's face facts..NO ONE HAS THE EXPERIENCE TO BE PRESIDENT. It's WHO they surround themselves with. That whole experience excuse is just a cover up for other reasons.

[InyaAzz]

YES!

Our forefathers would be so pissed if they've seen what this nation has become. It's time for a change and Obama isn't it! People make fun of his name because THEY CAN! Plus the irony is too close to not bash on him AFTER you realize he's not the one you want to win. I personally don't care about his feelings if I make fun of him, as I'm sure he doesn't care that I do.

I don't like ANY of the candidates now, but if all else fails, I would rather have McCain. *sigh*

So, you default to bash someone because of his background, and default to someone who...sounds more..."American"? Help me out here.

[John]

You just proved my point. Thank you.

I don't recall saying that Hillary was qualified either.

i know you didnt, i was just putting it out there for everyone's edification.

but im curious as to how you consider someone with 10 years of public service in the political realm to have a "lack of political experience" ???

[max power]

Let's face facts..NO ONE HAS THE EXPERIENCE TO BE PRESIDENT. It's WHO they surround themselves with. That whole experience excuse is just a cover up for other reasons.

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/03/13/obamas-racist-pastor-god-damn-amerkkkica/

This is who he surrounds himself with. This maniac is his "spiritual leader" who he admits to consulting with for each of his major political decisions.

http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_Church_Racism/2008/01/07/62285.html

Do you really want a guy who consults with a racist bigot running our country? Really?

What other brilliant people is he surrounding himself with?

Don't buy in to the media hype people. Do your research. I'm not saying any other candidate is the answer, but this guy is definatly not the answer.

[magley64]

again, attacks on his religion, friends, family, and history do NOT address the important issues...

health care, economy, taxes, etc....

THESE are what count...not his personal life, not his heritage...his philosophy on how the country should run....that's ALL that matters...

I disagree with his personal views on these issues,AND I disagree with his party's views on these issues (usually), that's why I won't vote for him.

[InyaAzz]

For every story like that, i can find one about McCain and the Clintons..about how they are involved with people of questionable character.

I don't agree with everything Rev Wright says, some of it is crazy. But he does make some good points on other things. You can pick and choose what you want to listen to or link to.It's too easy to do that..instead of saying, yeah, dude said some crazy stuff, but I listened to the WHOLE sermon and it wasn't all like that. Did you listen to the whole thing? I did.

I'm not condoning him at all. But obviously Obama and everyone else don't control what their pastors say or think. Obama wasn't in church that day and didn't co sign to what he said. And you know what? Some people would say that the policies of the government of our country have been racist for hundreds of years. Are people scared now, because they think black folks will get 'revenge'? Because that's what it's sounding like. Everyone says 'oh I don't like his ideas'...but the same people who say that are the same people who in the past would normally vote democratic EVEN IF THEIR CHOSEN CANDIDATE DIDN'T GET THE NOMINATION. Now, all of a sudden, they want to vote for the other party. If people don't want to vote for him because of a valid reason, that's their right. But don't sugarcoat it.

I find it funny that the sources you quote ..are obviously slanted in one direction. Newsmax was created by conservatives, and stoptheaclu.com, well, that speaks for itself.

I agree with you..people should do research, but when you post links to slanted sites, you defeat your own purpose.

[InyaAzz]

again, attacks on his religion, friends, family, and history do NOT address the important issues...

health care, economy, taxes, etc....

THESE are what count...not his personal life, not his heritage...his philosophy on how the country should run....that's ALL that matters...

I disagree with his personal views on these issues,AND I disagree with his party's views on these issues (usually), that's why I won't vote for him.

Exactly! I have much respect for you, because you choose to *not* vote for him based on what is important.

[Fonzie]

Who is qualified enough to get your vote?

I think we can all agree McCain's got the "experience card" hands down. Hell......He was a POW longer than some of these people have "served" their country

BTW.......Love that new sig avatar you got Jeremi. You make it up?

[max power]

OK, so if a white candidate had an obviously racist pastor as an advisor it would be acceptable? Come on. He has folllowed this guys teachings for 20 years. Do you think he doesn't agree with what Rev. Wright has to say? This IS unacceptable.

[shittygsxr]

The problem is that alot of african-american are voting for him because of his race and that is just as bad as the white-americans who are NOT voting for him because of his race.

In all reality he is definately not African-American, his father is from Africa, not four hundred years ago more like fourty years ago. His ancestors were not slaves, did not fight for civil rights, his family has not gone through the struggles that african americans have.

We could/should have had our first black president 8 years ago, but he (Colin Powell) chose not to run. There were plenty of white americans ready to vote for him but since they wont vote for barak obama they are now racists

I think all of the canidates suck, who the fuck would vote for Hillary Clinton? How can we let her run our country when she cant even run her own life? She was cheated on by her husband for decades and she doesnt even have the balls to kick him to the curb?

[InyaAzz]

I think we can all agree McCain's got the "experience card" hands down. Hell......He was a POW longer than some of these people have "served" their country

BTW.......Love that new sig avatar you got Jeremi. You make it up?

Why would we want the same old 'experience'? Isn't government and politics corrupted and just plain convoluted enough without bringing more of the same to the table? What has experience gotten us so far? We are hated throughout the world..mainly because we try to force democracy on others with bullets and bombs. We use countries as proxies, and then throw them away when they don't server our purposes anymore. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my country. BUT we are soo wrong on soo many levels that affect not only us, but people across the globe it's not even right.

You can't force a country to do what we tell them to do, just because we don;t think it's right. We have invaded more countries than ANYONE in the last 20-30 years. When people in the middle east call us crusaders, are they really far from the truth?

ok...rant done. I'm just trying to make the point that 'experience' hasn't gotten us anywhere lately. i think it's time for someone with a fresh view and a different approach.

[max power]

I don't agree with everything Rev Wright says, some of it is crazy. But he does make some good points on other things. You can pick and choose what you want to listen to or link to.It's too easy to do that..instead of saying, yeah, dude said some crazy stuff, but I listened to the WHOLE sermon and it wasn't all like that. Did you listen to the whole thing? I did.

.

Yes I listened to the whole thing and the dude is a racist. If a white pastor said anything remotely akin to this, we would hang him. You may think I am a redneck or whatever for pointing that out, but I wont support anyone who consults with and follows the religious teachings of a racist. PERIOD.

[PrincessPratt]

The problem is that alot of african-american are voting for him because of his race and that is just as bad as the white-americans who are NOT voting for him because of his race.

In all reality he is definately not African-American, his father is from Africa, not four hundred years ago more like fourty years ago. His ancestors were not slaves, did not fight for civil rights, his family has not gone through the struggles that african americans have.

We could/should have had our first black president 8 years ago, but he (Colin Powell) chose not to run. There were plenty of white americans ready to vote for him but since they wont vote for barak obama they are now racists

I think all of the canidates suck, who the fuck would vote for Hillary Clinton? How can we let her run our country when she cant even run her own life? She was cheated on by her husband for decades and she doesnt even have the balls to kick him to the curb?

:lol: I luv the last part Garrett. I don't really care for any of the candidates either. I voted for Huckabee in the primaries. I will be voting for McCain in November. He is just a bit too liberal for me. I am right wing conservative all the way. My reasons have nothing to do with race. I vote the issues that are close to my heart as a Christian. There are people who are black though that AREN'T voting for Barak....my pastor for one. But I see what you are saying.

[max power]

Dont you think a guy who was a POW for as long as McCain would be a little less apt to invade other countries at the drop of a hat? I doubt that his dad has a bone to pick with any certain middle eastern dictators.

I would have voted for Colin Powell in a heartbeat.

[InyaAzz]

OK, so if a white candidate had an obviously racist pastor as an advisor it would be acceptable? Come on. He has folllowed this guys teachings for 20 years. Do you think he doesn't agree with what Rev. Wright has to say? This IS unacceptable.

Of course it wouldn't. I'm not saying he is or isn't racist. I said there are some things he says that make sense. I'm not talking about THAT sermon, I'm talking about a whole slew of interviews I've seen and heard of him. The guy is a media whore..no question about it. I doubt you took the time to listen to the WHOLE sermon. if you did, good for you. Anyways..

Lots of people would say our government and/or certain parties have racist policies..yet you (we) support it. Is it ok when/if racism is in the closet?