Buckeye1647545503 Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 What are the thoughts and real life experances on use of the air to water on a street car that might see some daily use? I am debaiting useing one so I can keep my ac and or not cut the core support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHIEF Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 If your going to daily it every now and then, and also keep it mostly a street car, go with the air to air. Air to water is great for race car, but not a street/daily car IMO. Once that water gets heated up it's just dead weight in the front of your car. Alot of times I see the 1/4 import guys who use them, put ice in the water then after the run(s) drain it all back out and put new in. So if you want to keep filling it/draining it, every so often then that's your call. Air to air would be what I would go with on a street car. You can always use nitrous or co2, to cool the intercooler for some extra hp when needed. BTW: your dad see what happened to his cap window? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 How do you go about adding an intercooler to a non-intercooled car? I want to intercool my GTP but I have no clue??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLD AIR Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Driving around on the street you will not notice much difference between w-a or a-a at the track yes. I have seen liquid I/C start at 20 deg and end the 1/4 at 70 deg, a-a at best 40 deg over out side air temp. w-a usulally cost 2 to 3 times the $$$ as a-a. If you got the jack go with water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_t0wn Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 exactly what shief said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supldys Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 just to give you an idea, on the storm is a water-cooled intercooler. Prior to a run, fill the cell for it with ice and water, after one run...no ice left whatsoever and the water is warm if not hot. Yes theres ways to run a little radiator with a fan and everything, but I just cant see it being as efficient on the street as an air 2 air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mudbutt Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by BAM6I4: How do you go about adding an intercooler to a non-intercooled car? I want to intercool my GTP but I have no clue???Talk to nate, he had an ic on his gtp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Scott, Like alot of people have said, a-w is for a track car or if you can't/don't have the space for an a-a type. Watar can absorb 4 times the amount of heat air can, but the big draw back I noticed was the water in the main heat exchanger (the one used for cooling) will always be slightly above ambient on day to day basis. A-A relys on the car's forward velocity, as you really don't hit boost standing still, well, for long periods of time. Sure if you're doing 1/4 miles passes with an a-w system, theres really no consideration of fluid mixture, just the coldest shit you can get in there. On daily driver basis, I found it was best to use a 25/75% mixture of tap water and dexcool coolant to fight evaporation and for ohio whether, but that lowerd the heat transfer coefficent. I'll just say I'm glad I'm not using that type of system anymore. An a-a system will always be superious (space and airflow permiting) to an a-w car on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by SHIEF: If your going to daily it every now and then, and also keep it mostly a street car, go with the air to air. Air to water is great for race car, but not a street/daily car IMO. Once that water gets heated up it's just dead weight in the front of your car. Alot of times I see the 1/4 import guys who use them, put ice in the water then after the run(s) drain it all back out and put new in. So if you want to keep filling it/draining it, every so often then that's your call. Air to air would be what I would go with on a street car. You can always use nitrous or co2, to cool the intercooler for some extra hp when needed. BTW: your dad see what happened to his cap window?I think the nitrious/ Co2/ water is pointless unless you really need that 10% better charge. As for the topic at hand, air to air is your safe bet. But try and find an intercooler, with as many rows as possible for the size your looking into, and dont worrie too much about depth, cause its all about the rows, but depth certainly helps. What engine is this for, how much boost, what approx. are you flowing as well. I can do some calculations and give you a good idea of the air to air size IC you should run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 somany misconseptions a properly designed A2W system will out perform a properly designed A2A any time of the day, for street and track. water does absorb more heat then air, as long as you put a heat exchanger(lil radiator) with a fan the water wont get heat soaked and continue to cool. Plus when you go to the track you can put ice in the resivoir and run air temps BELOW ambient. main thing with A2W is its more complex and more $$. my car would be done if i hadnt desided to switch to a A2W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by smokinhawk: somany misconseptions a properly designed A2W system will out perform a properly designed A2A any time of the day, for street and track. water does absorb more heat then air, as long as you put a heat exchanger(lil radiator) with a fan the water wont get heat soaked and continue to cool. Plus when you go to the track you can put ice in the resivoir and run air temps BELOW ambient. main thing with A2W is its more complex and more $$. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHIEF Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 The heat exchanger like anything else will get hot, fan or not. Sure it will work for awhile and keep the water temps cooler for a bit longer but like any other radiator it will get hot too. Just not practical or worth the $$ imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 the heat exchanger will get just as hot as an A2A IC so whats your point? the air cools the water then the air, almost like the air cools the air. i too was once decieved and thought a A2A would be better for the street, till i took an unbiased look at some different setups on what there IAT's were, comparing some a2a and a2w the a2w were a good bit lower with just using water in the system (no ice). building my a2w set up its ALOT more complex, sometimes im tempted just to buy some cheap obx and get this brat running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Originally posted by The Jew Thing: the heat exchanger will get just as hot as an A2A IC so whats your point? the air cools the water then the air, almost like the air cools the air. i too was once decieved and thought a A2A would be better for the street, till i took an unbiased look at some different setups on what there IAT's were, comparing some a2a and a2w the a2w were a good bit lower with just using water in the system (no ice). building my a2w set up its ALOT more complex, sometimes im tempted just to buy some cheap obx and get this brat running.OK here is the simple truths. A2A units are more suitable for street use, they have a greater simplicty, greater thermal efficiency at high speeds, greater reliability, lower matiene, and lower cost. A2W units generally will have better themermal efficiency at low speeds, better throttle response with maf equiped cars, lower boost pressure loss, and less compressor surge. Also as for the heat transefer coeffiecents well water wins, by 14:1 that of alumimun. If you really want to be cool and use your brain, get a copper radiatior core with your A2W intercooler, and you can thank me later. You also will have to take a lot of consideration into the size of the resevior and or front cooler (which imo is a must), so the bigger the resivoir , the greater mass of water, which equals the greater thermal inertia ( cooler charge ). As for the front cooler aka radiatior, well its not too important but its usefull. At the start of a boost run, the entire system will be around ambient temperature, as the boost rises, heating the water in the main core, that heated water must get to the front core (radiator) before it has any temperature difference with which to drive the heat out. On avg the time delay is said to be 7-8 seconds, depending on resivoir. So the radiator does most of its work out of boost, because the temperature difference between the water and the radiator is small comparied to that of the boost charge, and water, and it takes a lot more time to cool water down then, to heat it up. All in all Scott they both work well, for what they ar designed, A2A have proublems with pressure loss, which increases the exhuast manifold pressure, which negates some power you gained from intercooling. (I can PM you some equations to size the A2A unit for you and get you as close to zero resistence as possible). A2W units weigh more, more complex, and you have to figure out a way to keep the water cool. So thats about all I can ramble off right now. Oh air/fuel ratio > intercooling device = importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye1647545503 Posted June 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 hmm Well I was looking at the a2w as a way to keep my condencer as a feed and return line for the exchanger would be easier than 2 2.5-3in pipes to route. I am still unsure what I want to do. as I know it will be cheaper to do a2a but I would like to keep as much of the car whole as can be.......hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 So the consensus on A-A IC's is as many rows as possible and as large as you can fit or what? I've heard things like pressure drop, what's that? How to avoid it? Can I just buy like a stock IC (EVO, SRT-4, etc) and do custom piping and be ok? Or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by BAM6I4: So the consensus on A-A IC's is as many rows as possible and as large as you can fit or what? I've heard things like pressure drop, what's that? How to avoid it? Can I just buy like a stock IC (EVO, SRT-4, etc) and do custom piping and be ok? Or what?I will post you a good reply tomorrow. And its important to properly size your intercooler core.(too tired) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Wright: I will post you a good reply tomorrow. And its important to properly size your intercooler core.(too tired)Have to call Clark first? tongue.gif -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by BAM6I4: So the consensus on A-A IC's is as many rows as possible and as large as you can fit or what? I've heard things like pressure drop, what's that? How to avoid it? Can I just buy like a stock IC (EVO, SRT-4, etc) and do custom piping and be ok? Or what? We GTP guys don't have the space to do it. Remember the blower sits right on the intake manifold, with the discharge pointing down, so trying to work out the piping to and from would be nothing short of a maricle. We are stuck with inserting a heat exchanger between the blower and the intake manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Originally posted by MadMalibu: Have to call Clark first? tongue.gif -MarcI would at least make sure to call someone that knows what they are talking about . But its okay Marc, people tend to make fun of something or someone when they are upset their pathetic little mind can not comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelloman4571647545499 Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 go air to air scott. if your talking about the 2.2 go air to air. air to water, which dont get me wrong is great, just seems to carry to much baggage for my lazy ass. A-2-A is all you need for that little street car. brandon when your done coping out of my corky bell book i need that shit back a kid at work wants to read it.. have fun [ 08. June 2005, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Jelloman457 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye1647545503 Posted June 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 will read in morn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ponyfreak Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Read it from the pro's. http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Pages/tech.asp#howcan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelloman4571647545499 Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Originally posted by Ponyfreak.: Read it from the pro's. <font size="]" target="_blank">http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Pages/tech.asp#howcan[/qb] did you find an manifolds yet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye1647545503 Posted June 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Ok so I measured the car today and I have 3 ft by 18in buy about 3 in anyone know a a cooler that fits those dim the best ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.