my turn...Looking for a Turbo....

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by BlackBird:

500+? 500 + 150 or 200

The new motor will have the shit boosted out of it, literaly as much as possible.And I drive it as daily as possible, as it will most likely be Fukin awsome. tongue.gif

the curent set up will be the OE engine of my daily driver, SoI'd rather run rich then lean. Also, like I said, the EEC tune will set the fuel preasure, so I wont need to worry about over doing it no matter what size injector I use.

I'd have to disagree, but its your ride!

 

At some point you will absolutely need at the very least a piggy-back computer, if not a full blown DFI system. If you're talking about making that much power, it would be silly to not have some type of tuning s/w... Or do you think you'll be able to use the same EEC chip for 8lbs of boost as you will for 12+?

[20G TSi]

o btw, the EEC tune will NOT set the fuel pressure as you've previously stated. Also, the stock (or modified even) EEC wont come close to working correctly with 72lb injectors.

 

[ 26 June 2002, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Blupastu TSi ]

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

o btw, the EEC tune will NOT set the fuel pressure as you've previously stated. Also, the stock (or modified even) EEC wont come close to working correctly with 72lb injectors.

Methinks we have a disbeleiver

I'll put it this way, The EEC-V itself is the work of the man that is going to tune my car. Remeber, i said he worked for Ford? Trust me,he knows his shit. And I will most certainly not be running a piggy back chip, it will be a direct reflash, essentialy a custom computer.

I'm catching a hint of "ignorant newbie needs schooling"....dont care for it. I assure you I know my shit.

 

edit: 89 gt?...you're not holding me to the same rules as your EEC-IV, are you?

 

[ 26 June 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: BlackBird ]

[Science Abuse]

well, some fool wanted to pay $800 fot he T66,so i let'm have it. but it looks like a T04E will suit my current project.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by BlackBird:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

o btw, the EEC tune will NOT set the fuel pressure as you've previously stated. Also, the stock (or modified even) EEC wont come close to working correctly with 72lb injectors.

Methinks we have a disbeleiver

I'll put it this way, The EEC-V itself is the work of the man that is going to tune my car. Remeber, i said he worked for Ford? Trust me,he knows his shit. And I will most certainly not be running a piggy back chip, it will be a direct reflash, essentialy a custom computer.

I'm catching a hint of "ignorant newbie needs schooling"....dont care for it. I assure you I know my shit.

 

edit: 89 gt?...you're not holding me to the same rules as your EEC-IV, are you?</font>

You are right, I am basing what I've said on the experiences I've had with EEC-IV. From everything I've read, the EEC-V is MORE of a pain in the ass, has more polution restraints and less performance capability. I'd guess your EEC tuner can make that all go away though.

 

I still dont understand why you wouldnt go with a speedbrain (or similar) piggy-back. You can adjust on the fly, change parameters (like fuel and timing curves) when you up the boost (or lower it), AND datalog.

 

I dont care how much the guy knows about the EEC, there's no way it can be made dynamic, as the input variables are just that, variables. Its easy to burn an EEPROM for ONE boost level, but since you're going with a turbo and not a supercharger, its easy to crank up the boost (and conversely, turn it back down). With the eeprom flash, you'll have one fuel and timing map, that wont be correct for each type of fuel and boost level. Especially at the boost/HP levels you're talking about, you'll need to have the tune right on if you expect it to stay together.

 

I'd still like to know how the EEC controls fuel pressure though

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

[QB I'd guess your EEC tuner can make that all go away though.

I'd still like to know how the EEC controls fuel pressure though [/QB]

its all in the programming man. the computer controls X aspects of engine operation. The newer cars have OBD2 and that kind of shit, all restraints. But they are merely programs and can be changed. I'll bring my dyno sheet out to the meet tonight, you can see the change in air fuel ratio. Also,with a laptop, the software, and a EEC Tuner,you can sit in your car, wired into the EEC V, and tell it what you want. This means you can adjust it for different boost levels, etc. You can sit in you car and play with/monitor things, just like the buzz word "stand alone" unit featured in That Damn Movie.

Adn the flash is just for the current 400hp setup. I'm still open to innovation for the High output version to come, Boost controlers, etc.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by BlackBird:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

[QB I'd guess your EEC tuner can make that all go away though.

I'd still like to know how the EEC controls fuel pressure though

its all in the programming man. the computer controls X aspects of engine operation. The newer cars have OBD2 and that kind of shit, all restraints. But they are merely programs and can be changed. I'll bring my dyno sheet out to the meet tonight, you can see the change in air fuel ratio. Also,with a laptop, the software, and a EEC Tuner,you can sit in your car, wired into the EEC V, and tell it what you want. This means you can adjust it for different boost levels, etc. You can sit in you car and play with/monitor things, just like the buzz word "stand alone" unit featured in That Damn Movie.

Adn the flash is just for the current 400hp setup. I'm still open to innovation for the High output version to come, Boost controlers, etc.[/QB]</font>

OOOOOHHHH!!! Gotcha man. My bad. I was thinking you were going to have a the eeprom flashed with new parameters, and thats it. I didnt know you were doing the flash so you could interface the EEC with a laptop. Thats the best solution I could think of, since you'll always have the factory pre-sets if the battery dies, or whatever... the car will still run. I would still want to datalog though.

 

I'm looking at some software for the eeprom'd ECU's in the DSM's that does the exact same thing. Cool stuff.

[Joe]

The is Relv:

 

The fact that you are building a killer engine, and are NOT using a fully programmable stand-alone ECU shows your lack of experience. Sorry.

 

The fact that you have not done extensive research on VE% curves for these different combinations, researched the individual effects of each modifications, then applied them all to known data for an accurate portrayal of engine performance at different rpm points... The fact that you can't even take all these variables, and then apply the to a compressor map, then do research on how exhaust a/r's and certain turbine trims are affected by different modified mustangs. Research the effects of turbine spool vs. volumetric efficiency.

 

Come on now. The fact that you trust others to do these things for you does not prove you "know your shit". I was going to do this for your combination, but frankly it requires an emmense amount of time. I will do it for free if you can provide the above mentioned data for me.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by More Tools Than Columbus Racing:

The is Relv:

 

The fact that you are building a killer engine, and are NOT using a fully programmable stand-alone ECU shows your lack of experience. Sorry.

 

Revl: Yeah, I was done trying to help.

 

Blackbird: that flash/pc i-face with 30-36lb injectors would be nice for the first setup you talked about, with a realistic goal of 400hp.

 

If i'm wrong, thats fine too, lets agree to disagree...

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by More Tools Than Columbus Racing:

shows your lack of experience. Sorry.

i know dude,thats why I'm here

I am very green when it comes to turbocharging. Mark PM'd me a slew of sites that I need to read up on, and am in the process of doing so. The motor being build with have a setup directly mimiking the TDC stage 2xx mustang kit. The piping is chassis specific, so it wount work on the bird. However, the only difference realy is a bend around the strut towers and the steering shaft. In copying the kit, I am just standing on the shoulders of the inovtors", they've done the work. As for the EEC tuning, the EEC-V is a fully programable ECU.And taping in witht eh correct hardware and software takes no time at all. My car has already been programed for N/A by the same guy. i watched him do it...in bianary and hex. It took him 15 minsincluding strap down time. But he designed the damn thing, kind of an unfair advantage.

not trying ot be cocky, just throwing up what I know.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by BlackBird:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by More Tools Than Columbus Racing:

shows your lack of experience. Sorry.

i know dude,thats why I'm here

I am very green when it comes to turbocharging. Mark PM'd me a slew of sites that I need to read up on, and am in the process of doing so. The motor being build with have a setup directly mimiking the TDC stage 2xx mustang kit. The piping is chassis specific, so it wount work on the bird. However, the only difference realy is a bend around the strut towers and the steering shaft. In copying the kit, I am just standing on the shoulders of the inovtors", they've done the work. As for the EEC tuning, the EEC-V is a fully programable ECU.And taping in witht eh correct hardware and software takes no time at all. My car has already been programed for N/A by the same guy. i watched him do it...in bianary and hex. It took him 15 minsincluding strap down time. But he designed the damn thing, kind of an unfair advantage.

not trying ot be cocky, just throwing up what I know.</font>

Its not binary, its hex. tongue.gif

 

Each byte pair you see, 02 38 for example, is representative of binary code. 02 38h in binary is 10 bits, 1000111000

 

do you know this guy personally? I'd love to get my hands on that *.hex or *.bin file and disassmebly. I've got probably the same peice of hardware for flashing as that guy does (its called "The Pocket Programmer").

 

Anyways, whatever route you go, good luck. I'd love to see the finished product.... if for nothing else, the originiallity.

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

I've got probably the same peice of hardware for flashing as that guy does (its called "The Pocket Programmer")..

eehhh, i doubt it

Notice I haven't brought up his name or where he operates out of? Thats because he uses equipment developed and provided by ford, and I dont think they car efor him using it how he does, he's adimate about anonimity smile.gif I do know him, not exatly personaly, I've met him a few times, exchange e-mail every once in a while, etc.

And the whole reason I'm doing the turbo on the T-bird is origionality. I have the money, I could just throw a Novi 2000 at it....like everyone else.

[20G TSi]

dupe

 

[ 28 June 2002, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Blupastu TSi ]

[20G TSi]

duplicate

 

[ 28 June 2002, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Blupastu TSi ]

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by BlackBird:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

I've got probably the same peice of hardware for flashing as that guy does (its called "The Pocket Programmer")..

eehhh, i doubt it

Notice I haven't brought up his name or where he operates out of? Thats because he uses equipment developed and provided by ford, and I dont think they car efor him using it how he does, he's adimate about anonimity smile.gif I do know him, not exatly personaly, I've met him a few times, exchange e-mail every once in a while, etc.

And the whole reason I'm doing the turbo on the T-bird is origionality. I have the money, I could just throw a Novi 2000 at it....like everyone else. </font>

Welp, I guarantee I have the same peice of hardware for programming the eeprom. I'd bet 500 bones, and I'm not a betting man. All it is, is a serial eeprom burner.. nothing sophisticated...... your average joe could build one for about 30 bucks, and it'd function the very same as what he (and I) am using.

Use freeware jtag interface program and you're set.

 

The hard part isnt programming the chip, the hard part is knowing the address locations that alter fuel and timing in the *.hex file, AND knowing the OP codes to make things work.

 

Even Superchips uses a "pocket programmer".

 

[ 28 June 2002, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Blupastu TSi ]

[Science Abuse]

Actualy,what he plugged intot he computerto flashe hte EEC and to burn chips (for others getting tunes) was abot the size or you're average PC "tower" cpu. What you have is probably what companies like superchips use to burn chips. When you compare what superchip can do to my car, and what one of his chips, or programs, can do....there is no comparison. The chip honnestly does things with the tranny that superchips claims isn't possible, all they can do is raise the limiter and increase line presure (which kills trannies). Like I said,he is a professional, does stuff I dont realy understand, but it's done right. Theres only 2-3 others that can come close to what he does to the EEC-V, and they were trained by him

[Trouble Maker]

Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

Each byte pair you see, 02 38 for example, is representative of binary code. 02 38h in binary is 10 bits, 1000111000

I fucking hate machine code, please stop talking about it.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by Mad Jack Bonney The Crazy Pirate:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

Each byte pair you see, 02 38 for example, is representative of binary code. 02 38h in binary is 10 bits, 1000111000

I fucking hate machine code, please stop talking about it.</font>lol... fun stuff. I became well versed in machine code when DTV decided it wanted to use remedial security on their access cards years ago...

[Spidey2721]

Well Eric you would prolly expect this from me but why dont you forget about the turbo for now and put the money into the cobra block you need to build. Just kinda seems like a little bit of a waste to spend anything on black_and_mild until you get the engine ready to go in. Buy the lower end parts you need such as crank, pistons, rods, rings, etc, etc, etc. You could even sen the block to get the machne work done. LOL I know you just really want to go fast now I understand very well. Get the new engine ready to go so the bird is no longer black_and_mild but black_and_wild

 

Eh.. just my two cents though. graemlins/gives.gif

 

oh by the way you still thinking of trek up here for the 4th??

 

Later,

jay

[SupraGlue]

This thread is being locked, and I'm deleting the personal insult posts. Technical differences of opinion are fine, but you guys need to leave your egos out of it.