Turbo DSM question(s)

[20G TSi]

You guys have probably seen me being cracked on because of the "limited" performance (or lack there of) of my 16G/MKIV talon.

 

I used a stock exh housing from my 1992 TSi, which I believe is a 6cm^2 housing. I DID port and polish it nicely though. If this is the case, could this be why I only picked up .5 seconds in the 1320 after the swap? It ran 14.7 with the T25 and 14.2 with the 16G. MPH seems to be unchanged, as it has stayed between 96-98.

 

I had expected 13.8 out of the combination since I have most of the necessary supporting mods (minus fuel and timing control):

 

3" turbo back exh

larger SMIC

1G BOV

190lph fuel pump and rewire

2 1/8" turbo inlet/maf tube

2 1/8 IC piping

1G throttle body

 

Do you think a 7cm^2 housing would get me to the 13.8 I wanted? I know 4 tenths is ~ 40hp. keep in mind it IS an automatic FWD car, which have smaller cams and poor traction.

 

If not, what should I do next (besides sell the car and get a AWD 5speed!). When the auto finally goes, I will be swapping in a 5 speed.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Jason

[slow4now]

You would definitely see an improvment with the TD05-7cm housing.A larger exhaust housing will increase your top-end (will also increase lag a little, but hey you have an auto!). You can get a 7cm^2 Mitsu Exhaust housing from Turbotrix for about $230. I'm pretty sure you will make up that 4 tenths you want.

[20G TSi]

great! Thanks for the reply. looks like I'm in the market for a new 'housing.

[slow4now]

I forgot to add that the manual and auto second gen DSM's are the same (other than the tranny of course!). The cams and injectors are the same.So don't waste any money buying those parts! Have you though about the valve body kit or the end clutch kit for your car? I forget who makes them (I can find out though) but they would improve the performance of your auto tranny. If I remember anything else I'll let you know. Later.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by bigbabyjesus:

I forgot to add that the manual and auto second gen DSM's are the same (other than the tranny of course!). The cams and injectors are the same.So don't waste any money buying those parts! Have you though about the valve body kit or the end clutch kit for your car? I forget who makes them (I can find out though) but they would improve the performance of your auto tranny. If I remember anything else I'll let you know. Later.

How about the 1G M/T cams? Its about time for a tb swap, so it'll be a good time to change out cams as well.

 

So far as the automatic, I looked into the valvebody/end clutch kit but I dont want to drop any money into the auto. I believe for a street/strip car to be truely fun, you need a 5 speed. As soon as I waste the auto, i'll swap in a 5 speed.

 

Thanks again!

Jason

[BOOST_ME]

What kind of boost are you running? An AFC/AFR would help as well (I think the rewired pump may be keeping you rich). You should be in the 13's, but without the tranny mods, it'll make things more difficult.

 

Jamie

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by BOOST_ME:

What kind of boost are you running? An AFC/AFR would help as well (I think the rewired pump may be keeping you rich). You should be in the 13's, but without the tranny mods, it'll make things more difficult.

 

Jamie

It seems to run best around 16-17psi. Could the 6cm housing be causing crazy back pressure in the exhaust manifold, creating excess heat? The intercooler is now hot to the touch after normal driving, but with the T25, it was always right around ambient temp., even after beating on it.

 

Definately, an AFC is on the list, but its past the cost of the 7cm housing. Which do you think I should do first?

 

[ 01 August 2002, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Blupastu TSi ]

[stealthmonkey]

ask the peeps on the dsm board as well if you haven't done that already. Columbus DSM

[Turbotrio]

Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

You guys have probably seen me being cracked on because of the "limited" performance (or lack there of) of my 16G/MKIV talon.

 

and since i assume this is referring to me ill try to help out.

 

whats your 60fts like? as im sure you know, strong fwd cars SUCK for 60fts. what kind of tires are up front? i dropped over a half second with nitto 555rs on 15psi. of course ETs or another good set of slicks would be much better, but like me, you have another car for full race duty.

 

definetely need some suspension mods. motor mount inserts help (road race sells them for $80) and even awd equal-length half shafts wouldnt hurt. an lsd from quaife would be ideal.

 

i personally hate launching a fwd car. whats worked best for me is just bringing it out at around 3500 and just letting it get the tires spinning and then nailing 2nd. 1st gear is pretty much useless any way you do it. my best 60ft has been a 1.9x on the nittos.

 

dont have much experience with autos--but if you have any specific questions 12sectalon (dan weaver) or pavo could more than help you out on converters and upgraded trannys etc etc.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by turbotrio (in bold), commented by blupastu TSi:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

You guys have probably seen me being cracked on because of the "limited" performance (or lack there of) of my 16G/MKIV talon.

 

and since i assume this is referring to me ill try to help out.

 

Yeah, actually I was Thanks for the input, and for not being salty about my shit talking

 

whats your 60fts like? as im sure you know, strong fwd cars SUCK for 60fts. what kind of tires are up front? i dropped over a half second with nitto 555rs on 15psi. of course ETs or another good set of slicks would be much better, but like me, you have another car for full race duty.

 

actually, traction hasnt been a problem with the 16G. I cant get it to spool enough off the line for traction to be an issue. With the t25 and its lower rpm/spool point, traction WAS an issue - I could leave with 10psi. Now, the converter is trying to flash (at say 2800rpm) and the 16G is only making 3-5psi. Best 60' with the t25 was 2.1xx, best with the 16G is 2.4xx.

 

definetely need some suspension mods. motor mount inserts help (road race sells them for $80) and even awd equal-length half shafts wouldnt hurt. an lsd from quaife would be ideal.

 

Yeah, I've heard the motor mount inserts are a huge help. I'll have to look further into that when I can actually put enough power to the ground to need'em!

 

i personally hate launching a fwd car. whats worked best for me is just bringing it out at around 3500 and just letting it get the tires spinning and then nailing 2nd. 1st gear is pretty much useless any way you do it. my best 60ft has been a 1.9x on the nittos.

 

not bad at all for fwd

 

dont have much experience with autos--but if you have any specific questions 12sectalon (dan weaver) or pavo could more than help you out on converters and upgraded trannys etc etc.

 

Yeah, I was talking to them a few months ago about beefing up the auto. I think I've decided to try and swap in a 5speed when I finally screw up the auto. You just cant match the fun of a 5 speed car with an auto, imo. [qb][/qb]</font>

 

[ 01 August 2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Blupastu TSi ]

[BOOST_ME]

Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BOOST_ME:

What kind of boost are you running? An AFC/AFR would help as well (I think the rewired pump may be keeping you rich). You should be in the 13's, but without the tranny mods, it'll make things more difficult.

 

Jamie

It seems to run best around 16-17psi. Could the 6cm housing be causing crazy back pressure in the exhaust manifold, creating excess heat? The intercooler is now hot to the touch after normal driving, but with the T25, it was always right around ambient temp., even after beating on it.

 

Definately, an AFC is on the list, but its past the cost of the 7cm housing. Which do you think I should do first?</font>

Well, you should be able to run 17-19 PSI safely--especially with the MKIV sidemount. The heat has me puzzled thought--are you using an EGT? Have you checked for leaks? If you're leaking boost, you could be overworking the turbo.

 

I'd grab the AFC/AFR first (you'll "need" one sooner or later) and an EGT if you don't have one already. You have an upgraded BOV don't you?

 

Jamie

[slow4now]

Originally posted by BOOST_ME:

You have an upgraded BOV don't you?

 

Jamie

Theres another thing I forgot about! 2g BOV's are notorious for leaking!

[20G TSi]

Yeah, I do have a 1G BOV on the car.

 

Guess I'm looking for a s-afc AND a 7cm housing.

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Jason

[20G TSi]

so, in anticipation of an AFC, I hooked up a 02 sensor voltimeter and a BCS LED.

 

The LED does nothing at peak boost (right now, 18psi) but the voltimeter acts stupid.

 

I know its supposed to cycle, but its going way down into milivolts (200 or so), and doesnt register at WOT?

 

Do you think my voltimeter is junk or the O2 sensor is bad?

[BOOST_ME]

Since your LED isn't lit at full boost, I'm willing to bet your O2 sensor is gone--otherwise you'd be getting some knock--as long as everything is hooked up right. When was the last time it was replaced? (The front one, don't worry about the back )

 

Jamie

[20G TSi]

I have never changed the O2, and HAVE run 90% 114 (leaded)/10% 93 octane thru it, so maybe the O2 IS screwed up. BUT, I finally got some O2 readings that make sense. Under full throttle and 16psi, I get 1.02 - 1.03 volts!! Just to make sure, that IS a LEAN condition isnt it? Very lean? I think i'm supposed to be at .96v MAX?

[Mr. Jones]

Originally posted by Blupastu TSi:

I have never changed the O2, and HAVE run 90% 114 (leaded)/10% 93 octane thru it, so maybe the O2 IS screwed up. BUT, I finally got some O2 readings that make sense. Under full throttle and 16psi, I get 1.02 - 1.03 volts!! Just to make sure, that IS a LEAN condition isnt it? Very lean? I think i'm supposed to be at .96v MAX?

IF you've run 90% Leaded I'd assume your 02 is totally shotzored!

[20G TSi]

hehhh... on multipul occasions. It probably fuct up the first time when it made its best run with the T25, 96mph. Since then I was never able to repeat the 96mph, and after the 16G and the same ratio of gas, it still only turns 96mph.

 

I got one tonight (a new o2) but the incompetent bastards at autozone gave me the wrong one.

[20G TSi]

woohoo! I got my SAFC ($117.00!!) and a new o2 sensor.

 

My question now is this:

 

I dont have an EGT gage YET, but o2 voltage is stupid rich, like 1.04-1.1+ v at WOT.

 

i would think that by turning down the boost, say to 15psi (for saftey reasons) and adjusting down to .96v would still be safe without having the EGT immediately??? Wouldnt this produce more HP safely?

 

Or should I just leave the AFC alone until I get a EGT gage?

[BOOST_ME]

Yes, that should be plenty safe. Glad to hear it's coming together smile.gif

 

Jamie

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by BOOST_ME:

Yes, that should be plenty safe. Glad to hear it's coming together smile.gif

 

Jamie

Goood deal. Time to do some tuning.

 

A friend of mine is going to GIVE me his 1G turbo M/T cams, do you think they would be worth the trouble of installing? Its about time for a t/b swap anyways...

[iwishiwascool]

I am in the same boat. After my engine swap I realized it was from an automatic....smaller cams and injectors...and turbo. The lift difference between the auto/mt cams is significant. It is definitely something you should do.

 

My problem is finding someone to do it. Ill take on any project, but when it deals with timing issues Ill pay the extra cash for the confidence in quality.

 

Let me know if you find someone who competently can handle the task, Im hoping the change puts me in the 12s.

[20G TSi]

Originally posted by iwishiwascool:

I am in the same boat. After my engine swap I realized it was from an automatic....smaller cams and injectors...and turbo. The lift difference between the auto/mt cams is significant. It is definitely something you should do.

 

My problem is finding someone to do it. Ill take on any project, but when it deals with timing issues Ill pay the extra cash for the confidence in quality.

 

Let me know if you find someone who competently can handle the task, Im hoping the change puts me in the 12s.

great info, thanks! The swap is a peice of cake though, there are dowl pins in the cams, so you cant put the cam gears on wrong. If you've ever done a timing belt swap (yourself), a cam swap should be easy.