88lx5oh Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 gonna be throwin a cam in my 88 lx 5.0 dont know which one to get... give me a few ideas. i was thinkin the E303, but im not quite sure. tell me what ya think. The heads are gonna be sent out here in a month or so, Port and polished and valve job, gonna pull the motor, got a leaky rear main seal. so gonna do the cam and heads together. give me some ideas... and what kind of powe gains you think ill get, also what it will raise my rev to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 IMO, I wouldnt waste any money on the stock heads. For a few hundred more you can get a set of twisted wedge heads completely assembled. Putting a cam on a motor with stock heads is almost a complete waste (hey, it DOES sound cool ). Even ported and polished stock E7 heads arent going to flow greater than 200cfm (on average, some have done better than 200cfm int., but exh still sux). I think you'd be better off spending the money set aside for the cam on upgrading the heads to a good set of high flowing aluminums (like the TW). You'd make more power with the stock cam/aluminum heads than with a B,E,F cam and stock ported/polished heads. JMO though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 I agree... get a set of GOOD heads. If you are gonna do it do it right. I think you could get a good set of GT-40 heads for really cheap completely assembled and ready to go. As far as the cam, is it an Auto or Manual car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88lx5oh Posted December 16, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 well i plan on getting a good set of heads... but the guy whos gonna port and polish my stock heads is a friend of the family and i can get it done for $150 so.... i will gain more for my money right now. that way i spend a lil money on a throttle body, cam, and gears as well. And my car is a 5 speed... it was an auto, but i did a t5 conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 or jack a set of GT-40P heads off of a totalled Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by OSoSlow5.0: well i plan on getting a good set of heads... but the guy whos gonna port and polish my stock heads is a friend of the family and i can get it done for $150 so.... i will gain more for my money right now. that way i spend a lil money on a throttle body, cam, and gears as well. And my car is a 5 speed... it was an auto, but i did a t5 conversion.Unless your friend has a flow bench, or extensive experience on flowing his finished product, he's not going to make much of a difference, ESPECIALLY on the intake side (any moron can pick up a die-grinder and carbide cutter on the exh side and make improvements). If he does ANY bowl work, you'll undoubtedly need a valve job as well, so that adds to the total cost. Spend the money and get a good set of heads. Your motor can only make as much power as your heads can flow, so why not do it right the first time? [ 16 December 2002, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Jasons TSi ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 I TOTALLY agree. If he does not have a flowbench, ect don't let him do it. He may be your sisters boyfriend's uncle who has been doing heads for 30 years but if he does not have the proper tools to flow a set of heads don't let him touch them! Hogging out the ports on heads will NOT make them flow better. Heads cannot be just "ported out" like an intake where you make the runners bigger. Heads MUST be done by a trained professional that has the tools, research, and knowledge to flow heads. "Been doing heads since before you were born" doesn't cut it... if the heads are done wrong in the smallest way they will most likely make your car SLOWER. I also agree that a set of GT-40P's are a good bang for the buck and can be found easily, although you will need a new set of headers made for the "P" heads. I think MAC sells them for the same price as their E7 headers. I reccomend the E303 cam for your Manual car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88lx5oh Posted December 16, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 he isnt some run of the mill guy, he has a flow bench, and he has been doin the work for a while now, my uncle has 2 drag cars and thats where he gets his heads done at. The guy does an impressice job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyinbrian Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 I've been there and one that with the heads. Personally, I wish I would have saved all the money I spent on inferior stocks and put it towards a set of new, aftermarket castings that outflow hogged out stockers straight out of the box. The nice thing is, this guy is doing it for little money. Since he has a flowbench, he can give you flow numbers. This will come in handy when you go to sell them once you decide to step up to better heads. I see no reason you shouldn't be able to make your $150 investment back whenever you sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 sounds like you already have your mind made up on the heads (hey, we tried ) You could at least find a set of 1969-1974 heads for him to port... You should be able to find a set for very cheap OR for free (if you lived down here, I'd give you a set!!). This way, the stang would have no down time. OR find a set of GT-40P's at a junkyard for 50-100 bucks, Here's a page that has all kinda info on the GT-40P. http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/5755/gt40p.html Personally, if I were on a budget, I'd either find a set of C90E (1969 351w castings) or GT40-P's and let him port'em. On the cam, I agree, the E cam is probably going to be your best choice. I used an E on my 'stang when it was supercharged and ran 11.60@118. You can use 1.7 roller rockers to increase lift w/ plenty of valve clearance. [ 16 December 2002, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Jasons TSi ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 Again, I agree with everything. For $50-$100 more buying a second set of E7's you could get a set of GT-40P's complete ... man do it right. Stock heads suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 I did a mild port job on my e7's and saw a decent gain. I couldn't give you any solid #'s though. I run the E7 cam, it's pretty decent. Good 3,500 rpm's and up. The stock cam is a really nice cam, especially with any kind of boost. I have a set of decent '89 E7's. They're your's for $50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOZZER Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 Hey if it were me i would get a set of afr 195's and a lunati .536 cam. it works very well in a stock bottom end. If you don't want to go that route my brother has a set of aluminum j 302 head that are extensivly ported of his windsor car. they are refreshed and ready to go for $1000. the motor they came off of ran in the 10's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DarkSVT Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 Unless your going with a blower, then don't get heads. Port your heads with 1.94/1.6 valves and 1.7 rockers. I would leave the stock cam in. You can get your car in the 12's with stock parts. Don't waste your money on heads and intake parts. There is too much BS about after market parts. Its all about having a well thought out plan. I do recommend putting in a windage tray if your gonna have the motor apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by DarkSVT: Unless your going with a blower, then don't get heads. Port your heads with 1.94/1.6 valves and 1.7 rockers. I would leave the stock cam in. You can get your car in the 12's with stock parts. Don't waste your money on heads and intake parts. There is too much BS about after market parts. Its all about having a well thought out plan. I do recommend putting in a windage tray if your gonna have the motor apart.Yeah, aftermarket heads are just a ploy to get you to waste your money. CFM what? [ 17 December 2002, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: Jasons TSi ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mauter Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 I have to agree with the aftermarket heads being a waste of money. You'd be better to spend the little extra money and get a supercharger. There is a good article in 5.0 mag this month of bulding up a stock 5.0. They put a supercharger on a stock motor and dyno'd it, than pulled it off and went step by step with bolt ons including heads, e-cam, intake, etc. dynoing each and the supercharger made more power. Than they showed what happened if you put them together. It was a good artical I wish I would've read it a few years ago. If you're going to add any aftermarket parts don't forget about the suspension, you'd be suprised what a difference suspension parts will make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by mauter: I have to agree with the aftermarket heads being a waste of money. You'd be better to spend the little extra money and get a supercharger. There is a good article in 5.0 mag this month of bulding up a stock 5.0. They put a supercharger on a stock motor and dyno'd it, than pulled it off and went step by step with bolt ons including heads, e-cam, intake, etc. dynoing each and the supercharger made more power. Than they showed what happened if you put them together. It was a good artical I wish I would've read it a few years ago. If you're going to add any aftermarket parts don't forget about the suspension, you'd be suprised what a difference suspension parts will make.Yeah, but how much does a supercharger cost compared to him geting a set of gt-40p's or e7's heads from a junkyard and having his buddy port them along with puting a cam and 1.7 roller rockers into them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 LITTLE extra money? Dude, the cheapest supercharger kit is $1900 not including install time if you aren't doing it. We're talking a $100-$150 set of GT40P heads here. You must be on drugs. As far as heads not doing anything? If he put a set of blower or nitrous designed heads then yea, his heads would be outflowing his motor. But in this case, and I think you'll agree here, compaired to a good set of cheap GT40P's E7's suck. Ported and flowed to the max they aren't shit to a good set of GT40's which you could have for $150 for a complete set? I also disagree about the cam, the stock cam sucks. Especially the 93 stock cam but we won't go into that. Hell even a super mild cam like the B303 is better than a stock cam. Anyone who knows shit about motors will tell you much more power is to made out of a cam than a set of rockers. If you have the motor apart do a cam and you can later customize your lift with rockers. Don't do rockers by themselves if you can help it, and you want power. Rockers by themselves are a good kick in the ass, but a cam is better and makes more power. THEN you can put rockers on your cam later and make MORE power and customize your setup for what you want to do with your car. smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 i'm with ya OneBadBlowDryer... I'm amazed at the wealth of mis-information and advice given on this site. Who in their right mind would say aftermarket heads are a waste of money????? yeah, they're a waste if you're not TRYING TO MAKE HORSEPOWER! :sarcasm: I guess I should have went with another supercharger instead of going naturally aspirated. I'm kicking myself now for buying aftermarket heads and not sticking with a set of stockers. 600 naturally aspirated horsepower is a waste of money too, god knows I could have made atleast 900 if I had kept the stock heads. Everyone knows naturally aspirated HP is harder on an engine than a power adder. :/end sarcasm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by mauter: I have to agree with the aftermarket heads being a waste of money. You'd be better to spend the little extra money and get a supercharger. There is a good article in 5.0 mag this month of bulding up a stock 5.0. They put a supercharger on a stock motor and dyno'd it, than pulled it off and went step by step with bolt ons including heads, e-cam, intake, etc. dynoing each and the supercharger made more power. Than they showed what happened if you put them together. It was a good artical I wish I would've read it a few years ago. If you're going to add any aftermarket parts don't forget about the suspension, you'd be suprised what a difference suspension parts will make.Sir, put the magazine down, and back away. [ 17 December 2002, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Jasons TSi ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mauter Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 "IMO, I wouldnt waste any money on the stock heads. For a few hundred more you can get a set of twisted wedge heads completely assembled. Putting a cam on a motor with stock heads is almost a complete waste (hey, it DOES sound cool ). Even ported and polished stock E7 heads arent going to flow greater than 200cfm (on average, some have done better than 200cfm int., but exh still sux). I think you'd be better off spending the money set aside for the cam on upgrading the heads to a good set of high flowing aluminums (like the TW). You'd make more power with the stock cam/aluminum heads than with a B,E,F cam and stock ported/polished heads." I would agree that a set of $100 p-heads would be worth the money but someone mentioned twisted wedge heads "aftermarket" those are good heads but a set of $1000 heads, the $160 cam, $70 timing chain, and all the gaskets and all the other small parts you need to buy add up. And you can't get the power out of heads and a cam that you can with a $1900 supercharger. Not to mention the cost if you have the heads gone over by a good shop. I've done a b-cam with stock heads and have run 12's with it and I have aftermarket heads and they didn't pick me up much more and for the money spent I wish I would've put a supercharger on. The article in 5.0 just went over it step by step both ways read it before you tell me to put my magazine down because it was right on the money. I'm just tring to help someone else out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 aftermarket heads are stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20G TSi Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 we're going further and further OT with this thread, but wtf, I'll entertain your suggestion. OK, so a lightly modded (exhaust, timing, etc)5.0 'stang makes ~180hp at the wheels. The el' cheapo supercharger you're suggesting might add 40% at 6psi, that brings us to 252 rwhp. Not too impressive. What next? You've hit a brick wall in performance until you upgrade heads and can flow more air. You might be happy with 252hp for about a week before you want more.... Relate this to stereo equipment. You can buy a set of 15" subs, but w/o a nice amp you'll never get the full potential of the subs. Sure you can use that 75 watt pos you have in the closet, but it wont sound worth a shit. About the magazine.... It wasnt intended as a flame. I'm talking from experience here (and quite a bit of wasted money). If you're intention is to make HP, heads is where its at. Its my theory that you cant have too big of a head in an EFI Ford application (aside from all out 350+cfm pure race heads). The greater cfm capability of the head, the greater potential the motor has. [ 17 December 2002, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Jasons TSi ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mauter Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 I agree everytime you do something to your car and get use to the new power you'll want more. I hit that point and thought that after market heads were the way to go. And if I had done a complete motor rebuild and not kept the stock bottom end I could've gotten a bigger cam to go with my heads and made the power that after market heads can make but in my case I didn't. I think the for the money I spent a supercharger would've made more power for me. But I am glad that I have the heads so in the future when I do rebuild the motor I can get the power out of them. I was just disappointed with the money spent for the power it gave me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by mauter: I agree everytime you do something to your car and get use to the new power you'll want more. I hit that point and thought that after market heads were the way to go. And if I had done a complete motor rebuild and not kept the stock bottom end I could've gotten a bigger cam to go with my heads and made the power that after market heads can make but in my case I didn't. I think the for the money I spent a supercharger would've made more power for me. But I am glad that I have the heads so in the future when I do rebuild the motor I can get the power out of them. I was just disappointed with the money spent for the power it gave me.True, heads + cam + rockers = MAY not make as much power as just bolting on a blower. If you do it wrong... when done correctly you can make the same power as bolting on a blower. But what happens when you want to make more power and OOPS! Now you can't outflow your stock heads, cam, and rockers. Back to square one. Ever heard of building a motor FOR a power adder? Cause that is the way normal folks do it. "Bloting on a blower" is not the cure-all solution for more power. In most cases just bolting on a blower will NOT get the gains you would like ($2000+ dollar gains) and certainly the blower is WAY more efficent if you can actually flow the air through your motor first. I'm one of the guys you don't want to debate superchargers with, I wouldn't have a decent car if I didn't know a thing or two about them. I have plain high ratio (1.90 VS 1.60) rockers on right now. This weekend in goes my cam and 1.75's. Cam's are how you do it, especially with a blown car. But ANYWAY he was asking for an economical solution which a blower is NOT. He's talking about ported stock heads so obviously he's on a budget. Not all of us have $2000+ sitting around to buy a blower. Now, it seems pretty obvious to me that he is sticking with his plans of porting stock heads. Now I will still say if you are going to do it, do it right and get better heads. To each his own as they say, so I won't touch the heads anymore unless asked. I still say go with an E303, it's a good solid cam that you can add rockers to later to custom tailor your lift. smile.gif ... and Jason thanks for keeping the debate going whilst I was working today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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