GM dumping 25,000 employees, closing a few plants?

[Mowgli1647545497]

Anyone heard this?

 

If true - good for GM. Make the hard choices, and play ball. They have WAY too much supply for their demand. Close all the SUV plants I say.

[AngryBMW]

I read about it this morning. It's one of those things that you have to agree with, but it still sucks to see all those people out of a job.

-Marc

[Buckeye1647545503]

Now lets see if (other than caddy) they can again start making cars people want and will but with out 10 g off the price

[Guest DagoRcR]

They are cutting the jobs mainly because of "health insuance woes"

 

Way to go bleeding heart liberals, +1 for helping the common man

 

:ugh:

[Mallard]

No, they are cutting jobs because there are too many redundant jobs with the union and they can save money by outsourcong stuff overseas.

 

The health insurence is a different issue that they have been trying to work out. GM stands to lose a ton of money under the current plan which isn't good considering they're already junk bonds. Everyone that works for them will still have coverage.

[SquirrelyNutsDSP]

Originally posted by Mallard:

No, they are cutting jobs because there are too many redundant jobs with the union and they can save money by outsourcong stuff overseas.

Maybe they're just curbing production since they can't seem to move the current amount of vehicles off the lots?

[Wease]

The first step, in my opinion, is killing the union... graemlins/nod.gif

[villision1647545496]

Why do you want to kill the union? From the owner perspective of course that is the logical option. Honestly, who wants to hear about 25,000 people losing their jobs? That is just wrong man, have a heart.

 

Ty

[Akula]

The union is causing them loads of problems. They aren't cutting the jobs until late 07 early 08 due to a union contract that makes them have to pay everyone until then (hourly, salary doesn't matter). Their biggest problem is they have over grown thier market. People aren't buying that many cars from them right now but they are making them at a break-neck pace.

 

If they would keep focus on their core, throttle back some of their market focus (you don't need to make a compact car 'cause the japanese/koreans will eat you up on cost savings) and build cars Americans want (where is the camaro/firebird?) they could put it together. Plus they have some quality issues (or perceptions of quality issues) due to aging facilities and their unwillingness to rip their old Detriot facilities down and move to Alabama or somewhere the cost of production is much less.

 

The union is a big part of what drives their total operating cost up, but it really isn't their only reason for their current financial problems (makes one hell of a good scape goat though).

[smokin5s]

unions should be done away with... they were great back in the depression and maybe bring them back if something like that happens again, but in today's world, they kill companies... I strongly blame unions for Lucent's demise (anyone that worked there will agree with me... because of unions, no one worked, but got paid a shit load) Quality goes through the toilet, but cost of producing goes through the roof. (I'm not saying GM's quality sucks, I'm just saying that, that is what today's union does)

[Guest powers]

Originally posted by Mowgli:

They have WAY too much supply for their demand. Close all the SUV plants I say.

Not sure if I heard this right but there was a commercial on tv saying that GM was gonna offer theri employee pricing on all brands to help reduce inventory. I'm sure there are specifics but that is pretty agressive.

[Akula]

http://www.gm.com/employeediscount.do?cmp=gm_com

[Mowgli1647545497]

Originally posted by Akula:

.... build cars Americans want (where is the camaro/firebird?) ...

Nobody wanted the camaro/firebird, its why they killed it in the first place. Nobody still wants them - look at GTO sales.

 

Now having said that... if GM does go the way of what I heard at the Kentucky conference couple months back with regards to manufacturing strategies, that is, if production run targets are tens of thousands of cars and not aimed at hundreds of thousands of cars per model, then the definition of a successful car becomes not one that sells 216,000 units, but 20,000 units. The GTO and cam/birds definitely will survive at those sales levels. I do hope GM goes this way.

 

Agreed completely with the rest of Akula's post.

[Mowgli1647545497]

By the way - regards the unions, here's a quote from another forum's thread on the GM topic:

It's more than that...it's 2200.00 off the line for pension and bene's. GM's unions, according to Fortune, do not pay a dime for insurance.....

 

I used to work for UPS (Teamsters). While some were concerned and wanted to partner with the company to make it work for all the vast majority (80%) would rather see UPS go out of business then look for solutions. It was crazy....during the strike I had my "friends" shoot at me with a BB gun, knife my tires and break my friends jaw as we were driving across the line....just so you know what your talking about here...One of my friends was killed when they cut him off in his tractor and he tumbled over the ramp....he was 54, family and one year from retiring....nices guy you ever met....

I'm sure Jimmy Hoffa would agree.

[Wease]

Originally posted by 1 DIRTY 7:

Why do you want to kill the union? That is just wrong man, have a heart.

I never said I wanted people out of a job. I've been out of work before, for like 3 months right after September 11th. It sucked. I don't wish that on anyone. However, read what I said again. I said the first step is to do away with unions. Read the other responses to unions in this post. That's what I'm talking about. It's no secret why the Japanese don't have auto unions... smile.gif

[Mowgli1647545497]

Most asian and european companies benefit from the fact that their governments pay for the health benefits.

 

Even so - I don't want a socialized medical system in the USA.

 

I just want tort reform. Kill the lawyers. It'll solve so much. Lower medical bills, lower insurance costs, lower costs for cars, homes, booze.......

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Mowgli:

Most asian and european companies benefit from the fact that their governments pay for the health benefits.

 

Even so - I don't want a socialized medical system in the USA.

 

I just want tort reform. Kill the lawyers. It'll solve so much. Lower medical bills, lower insurance costs, lower costs for cars, homes, booze.......

Tort reform for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lustalbert]

unions must die.

[Rally Red Evo]

Originally posted by ( . Y . ):

unions should be done away with... they were great back in the depression and maybe bring them back if something like that happens again, but in today's world, they kill companies... I strongly blame unions for Lucent's demise (anyone that worked there will agree with me... because of unions, no one worked, but got paid a shit load) Quality goes through the toilet, but cost of producing goes through the roof. (I'm not saying GM's quality sucks, I'm just saying that, that is what today's union does)

I tend to disagree with you on the Lucent statement.

 

Lucent main issue was not the union, it was and still is they have no management that knows how to compete in a competitive market(back in the late 90's way too many AT&T cronies). I worked there for 5 years starting in 97 (was in management, not the union)and had never seen a company so slow, and so poorly managed. Very slow and poorly desinged project teams, lack of cost reduction upfront in new products, and way too many people overall who like you said didn't work and had no real jobs. Union there IMO was a small factor in their issues.

 

 

Side note, has anyone gone to a GM dealer and seen pricing? Sounds like everyone gets the A plan right now.

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by D:

They are cutting the jobs mainly because of "health insuance woes"

 

Way to go bleeding heart liberals, +1 for helping the common man

 

:ugh:

They are cutting jobs because there are too many people up top making too damn much money and they'll be damned if they give up a peice of their pie to save the job of a 20 year veteran. The CEO sucks at his job and still brought in $4.66 mil last year, plus 6 figure bonuses. Cut his salary by 75% and his ass still aint starving.

[SHIEF]

GM = graemlins/gay.gif

They are sending those 25,000 jobs over to China. Good job GM way to make a stand graemlins/jerkit.gif Maybe they should cut back on Executive pay and grow some balls, instead of outsourcing those jobs. Get someone who knows business and find a better solution. Instead of selling out. Sure it's good for their business, but I would expect nothing else from this POS company. I will never buy a GM anything...

[Mr.COS]

SUV plants are still their bread and butter.

 

Trisha's GM SUV/Truck stamping plant is still working overtime and Saturdays on three shifts.

 

They want to reduce production, and bring in cheaper workers.

 

Trisha is almost making as much as I am after 6 years, and I'm a college educated Senior Systems Analyst with 7 years experience.

 

I could design a robot to do her job, and I'm not an engineer. She just grabs a door frame off a belt, and puts it on a rack.

 

It's definately a union that keeps those jobs alive.

[Science Abuse]

wonder if they made this descision based on focus groups, too. graemlins/nonono.gif

[Mowgli1647545497]

Originally posted by The Stig:

They The CEO sucks at his job and still brought in $4.66 mil last year, plus 6 figure bonuses. Cut his salary by 75% and his ass still aint starving.

I'm not a fan of Wagoner, but to be honest $4.6M annual for a CEO with the revenue the size of GM is low. There are CEOs of MUCH smaller companies pulling in more than that. Good CEOs aren't cheap.

 

That being said, I think Wagoner should get the boot. But I beleive whoever runs GM deserves more than $4.6M actually. I'd say give it to Lutz, but then we'd lose him as the top product guy, but he's just getting started, and he's the first "car guy" GM's had in his post for a LONG time.

 

Maybe bring in Richard Branson as a new CEO. Now THAT'D rock! Can you imagine what he'd do with GM and a mandate to change it? *drool*

[Mowgli1647545497]

hmmm....

 

But analyst Michael Bruynesteyn of Prudential Equity Group said that eliminating 25,000 or more hourly jobs through 2008 would only be in line with the normal 5% annual retirement or attrition rate at GM.

 

“These plans are not surprising given market share losses and efficiency gains but we do not think they should be viewed as a new strategy,” added Goldman Sachs analyst Robert Barry.

 

Wagoner said GM had been in intense discussions with the United Auto Workers union about ways to reduce the company's massive healthcare costs. But he said it was not certain an agreement would be reached.

 

A senior UAW official suggested Wagoner was unlikely to win any major concessions from the union under its current labour contract, however. The contract expires in September 2007.

 

“It's one thing to present in a speech specific targets for job reductions and closing plants by the end of 2008; in reality, various important factors will come into play,” Richard Shoemaker, the UAW vice president in charge of union affairs with GM, said in a statement.

"New strategy"? Or "spin" to bounce out of junkbond status?