pot, shouild it be leagal????

[Mowgli1647545497]

Originally posted by CaptainTerrific:

 

I challenge you to ping pong and soccer we can play 2 games, 1 sober then one with me F-ed up. All in the name of science, of course

You just want an excuse to light up. But ok. How about Forza, raquetball (ping pong requires too much restraint), and football -shared qb (I don't do soccer - dutch wife and its a household argument: soccer's for europeans, football's amerakun).

 

And I get to say when you're done smokin.

[Guest Crankshaft]

Originally posted by 151:

Morality should have absolutely nothing to do with it, since every single person in this great country of ours has different moral values. That's really the whole fucking reason those people with the funny hats and buckles on their shoes made the trip over here in the first place, remember? The last time we tried to ban something for "moral reasons", it required a constitutional amendment some ten or so years later when the government realized that prohibiting things based upon the people in power's moral values was unconstitutional.

graemlins/slap.gif

 

<font color ="midnightblue"> Then on what grounds do we find it acceptable to outlaw murder?

 

My neighbor is loud--all day and night long. My religion speaks against loud noises for fear of disturbing the gods. So I am thusly obligated to kill my neighbor. I don't see it as morally wrong, who cares what anyone else thinks. We all have our own moral codes after all, right? I mean hell, that's why men in funny hats and buckles on their shoes made the trip over here in the first place, remember?

 

graemlins/slap.gif

 

All laws are based off of a moral judgment ruler. Some moral laws are too far one way or the other to be popularly accepted, but they are moral laws, nonetheless. And impairing your ability to maintain complete control of your body by injesting harmful alien substances purely for the purpose of 'recreation' is immoral.

 

A recent study conducted found that engaging in multiple tasks during the work day, such as talking with friends online and on the cell phone, managing copious amounts of paperwork, and not taking time to rest for a few minutes here and there decreased your overal IQ by an average of 10 points at the end of the day. You recover those points at night, but still--10 points. That same study also found that pot had the same effect, though the body recovered at a much slower rate due to the lingering residual toxins. 10 IQ points. Think about it.

[Devils Advocate]

... Did you seriously just compare MURDER and Smoking Marijuana?!

 

1. Murder is one person Killing another, maliciously. Again, that is one person Harming another, and in this case, mortally

 

2. Smoking marijuana (in 99.9999% of cases), last time I checked, does NOT invlove One person Harming another, and literally NEVER on purpose, unless they are drug dealers. Which, incidentally, would be reduced drastically if marijuana was legalized.

 

Give up, man. I'm pretty sure that your back is against the wall when you compare a first Degree felony to a fourth degree misdemeanor. I know it's crushing to you that you can't prove a valid point (since debating, masturbating, posting unfunny videos on the internet, and learning dead languages seems to be all that you do with your life), but seriously... Take some riddlin, turn on some spongebob, and relax a little.

[Berto]

he was just making a point.

[Devils Advocate]

Originally posted by RX7dood:

he was just making a point.

Bullshit. If he was making a point, then he wouldn't be a prick about it and post those homosexual ass smilies. He honestly believes that comparing murder and smoking pot is a valid argument. I still can't understand how smoking marijuana is immoral, but drinking is not...

[Dr. Pomade]

Actually, murder is normally considered a "special" felony - a level higher than a felony of the first degree. Felonies of the first degree normally have an upper limit to the penalty that can be imposed, which do not include life imprisonment or capital punishment - those two are reserved for "special" felonies.

 

Also, it's Ritalin, not Riddlin. The latter is something I suppose the Riddler would do.

[Guest Crankshaft]

Originally posted by 151:

... Did you seriously just compare MURDER and Smoking Marijuana?!

 

1. Murder is one person Killing another, maliciously. Again, that is one person Harming another, and in this case, mortally

 

2. Smoking marijuana (in 99.9999% of cases), last time I checked, does NOT invlove One person Harming another, and literally NEVER on purpose, unless they are drug dealers. Which, incidentally, would be reduced drastically if marijuana was legalized.

 

Give up, man. I'm pretty sure that your back is against the wall when you compare a first Degree felony to a fourth degree misdemeanor. I know it's crushing to you that you can't prove a valid point (since debating, masturbating, posting unfunny videos on the internet, and learning dead languages seems to be all that you do with your life), but seriously... Take some riddlin, turn on some spongebob, and relax a little.

<font color ="midnightblue"> You obviously haven't taken an ethics class. Or if you have, either you or the professor was lacking in their understanding of the concepts.

 

Yes, I "seriously" just compared murder to smoking marijuana. No, my back is up against no such proverbial wall. In theory, if something is immoral, it should not be done for any reason, no matter the degree of harm resulting as a consequence. There is no negative consequence morality scale equalizer to determine the viability of actions. Stealing a cookie after you've been told not to, for any reason, is actually immoral. What harm comes from it? Little, if any. Immoral. Murdering someone in cold blood, even if you believe it is the right thing to do, or you will never be caught, is still immoral. What do we have as a result of both situations? Something immoral. There is no varying degree of immorality. It is, or it isn't. This is too black and white, however. We say things are "grey" because of the extent of undesirious effects which result from them, not because one thing is "more" immoral than another. It is, or it isn't. It is our perception of the consequences which decides our willingness to do a thing.

 

And when, in all of the arguments that we've had, did you honestly come to the conclusion that I support drinking in any way? When did I say it was "moral"? I didn't. The only difference between drinking and smoking is one is legal, the other is not. The government is an arbitrary judge, and should not be trusted to make our moral decisions.

 

"I know it's crushing to you that you can't prove a valid point" ... I think what you meant to say was "make a valid point". I don't need to "prove" a valid point, as its validity would already have been proven......which makes this whole debate seem a little silly, but tally-ho. And if that doesn't work for ya, then consider the structure of that sentence seems to indicate your opinion that my position is valid, thereby making yours invalid. Ahh, semantics.

 

"(since debating, masturbating, posting unfunny videos on the internet, and learning dead languages seems to be all that you do with your life)"

 

debating is self-obvious, but where did masturbating come into it? If you don't like the videos, that's fine. Don't watch 'em. Dead languages? Since when is a language that over a hundred and fifty million people speak considered dead? You left out playing computer games, travelling all over the world, working construction, and going to college.

 

Dr. Z06: The latter is something I suppose the Riddler would do.

graemlins/lol.gif

[Berto]

Originally posted by Dr. Z06:

 

Also, it's Ritalin, not Riddlin. The latter is something I suppose the Riddler would do.

if you become a rap star. that will be your name.

[Trouble Maker]

Originally posted by Mowgli:

Here's my cliff's notes:

What I'm saying is I don't care if its legal or not. Its your life, not my life, not the state's life either. It will hork your life up if you become a pothead, but I won't stop you or even really give a shit. And these posts are as far as I'll go to help you avoid it too.

Then you obviously didn't read the title of this thread.

 

Oh god, thank you for saving me from becoming a pothead. graemlins/nonono.gif

[Mensan]

Riddlin the Riddler.

[Mowgli1647545497]

Originally posted by Trouble Maker:

Then you obviously didn't read the title of this thread.

 

Oh god, thank you for saving me from becoming a pothead. graemlins/nonono.gif

I read it. And one of my first posts was ~"eh, make it legal or not, I don't care." and proceeded to take my potshots (pun intended).

 

Thats called a thread hijack.

[Trouble Maker]

Originally posted by Mowgli:

Thats called a thread hijack.

That's not nice! tongue.gif

 

Originally posted by Mowgli:

[rimshot]proceeded to take my potshots (pun intended).[/rimshot]

[Drunkendubber]

Yes, I "seriously" just compared murder to smoking marijuana.

 

yet you still think it would be immoral if it was made legal, your basis of opinion is a little skewed. Whats your basis on underage drinking? what about underage drinking at church?or drinking at a restaurant with your parents? Your immorality issue is not cutting it. you should stick to facts, they were doing much more for your credibility. What about someone that smokes in amsterdam? im interested in your position on this, or even better someone in a state smoking it for medicinal purpose Legally, is that immoral to you?

 

and on a personaly level i just dont buy people blaming the substance for their problems. They chose to do this or this and when it hits a repeat level, thats a choice. And if they personally find a more satisfying indiffernce curve by choosing to ruin their life with a substance than they were going to fail anyways. But thats just based on the various people ive met in colleges, construction, farming etc...

 

Ive seen both you guys make better arguments than this. MOwgli of course your challenging me to activities in which you have experience and with that a comparitive advantage. Just like i called out two sports in which finess and fitness that i have experience with play key roles in winning. YOu chose sports where brute force usually plays the "talent" and from the pics of you im sure your quite strong. As for playing forza im down cause im boycotting puchasing it until classes are over. Never played it in order to reduce my need to. we should pick a new medium where we're both noobs or experts and then compete.

*left field question*

Mowgli are you a little xbox controler guy or a large xbox conterler guy? 2nd gen lil, 1st gen big?

[Nate1647545505]

Originally posted by 420GSXR1000:

but even if you did need a civil designer, i dont think you could afford me

You make (on average) what an MCSE & CCNA Admin does...if not less.

 

If I were a beting man, Mowg could afford you, and your dime bag.

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue">

 

Yes—and I think you’ll agree with me on this one—that smoking pot would still be wrong if made legal because I can safely say that I think murder would still be wrong if it were made legal. I think I’ve said this twice now, but I’ll say it again: the government is not a proper arbitrator of moral actions. The last presidency should have told you that. There are higher codes of ethics that the government does not adhere to, nor subscribe to. If we wish to be ethically and morally sound, we need to examine the social mores around us to discover if they are, in fact, the best thing for us.

 

Underage drinking is made only worse than drinking at or after 21 by the fact that it is illegal. So doing something that is wrong, that you know to be wrong, is certainly immoral. And I’m not sure exactly what you mean by underage drinking at church. Does this refer to communion? If so, then that is a totally different situation. Taking less than a shot glass’ worth of alcohol into your system for the purpose of observing a holy sacrament is not immoral. If the sacrament demanded that one become intoxicated, however, that would be (though if this were the case, I doubt Christianity would be the same as we know it today).

 

And I fail to see how allowing someone “at the bottom of the barrel”, so to speak, take a lifestyle of further degenerating habits upon themselves’ is a moral thing to do. If a husband lost a family member, let’s say, and he takes up drinking and becomes an alcoholic, and then loses his wife in divorce and his kids to custody, you can’t tell me it’s not due to the drinking. “Yeah, but that’s alcohol. We’re talking about weed.” That’s true, but you did say, “I just don’t buy people blaming the substance for their problems.” Ok, now we’ve all been over the psychotropic and physically negative effects one experiences from marijuana. Taking in an alien toxin into your body when you’re at a low point in your life is certainly not going to help matters. In fact, if anything, it is only going to worsen the situation, costing you your time, money, and mental constitution.

 

I should stick to facts? See, this is where we have the problem—people are all moral relativists today. There are moral facts, it’s just more difficult to find them because, when you come to a “solution”, there is no definitive “answer”, as it were. As in mathematics, when you solve an equation there are methods of checking it that can, without a doubt, prove your answer right or wrong. This is not the case in philosophy, which is why some people seem to devaluate it. If you say there are no moral facts, you sir are a nihilistic anarchist. Period.

 

What about someone who smokes in Amsterdam? What about someone who kills someone else in Antarctica, with no one around for hundreds of thousands of miles—where there are no rules? Is it not still wrong?

 

And about that medicinal marijuana…that’s a good question. I’m not entirely sure about my position on this one, I’ll be honest. Because on the one hand, we can, without a doubt, say that they are not smoking it for immoral purposes. Relieving their pain would not be considered an immoral endeavor. However, it still comes down to how they are doing it. If we say that a man is legally permitted to be wasted on alcohol 24 hours a day because it is one of the only ways for him to relieve his physical pain, then I don’t doubt many of you would consider that to be a fallacious line of reasoning. Yet when it comes to pot, we somehow think that it’s ok, because the negative effects of marijuana are much less visible in nature. The medical effects of other pain relieving drugs, such as morphine, can also be called into question. For example, morphine, “Morphine, a narcotic , directly effects the central nervous system. Besides relieving pain, Morphine impairs mental and physical performance, relieves fear and anxiety, and produces euphoria. Morphine's effects also decrease hunger, inhibit the cough reflex, produce constipation, and usually reduces the sex drive. In women, Morphine can even interfere with the menstrual cycle. Morphine's euphoric effects can be highly addictive. Tolerance (the need for higher and higher doses to maintain the same effect), as well as physical and psychological dependence develop quickly.” ( Source Here ) Such drastically negative effects for the purpose pain relief can and should have their legitimacy called into question. We cannot go into a discussion which considers all of the pain relieving drugs out there, but I will say that when such a drug has a tendency to produce such seriously negative effects within the body, it should not be used, even for pain relief. Pain is a natural function of the body; inhibiting it with an alien substance is not. Therefore, I would venture to say that I do not agree with those using marijuana for medicinal purposes. The only scenario I could possibly see in which marijuana’s medicinal uses might be condonable would be in cases of severe injury resulting in eventual fatality. Yet even then, I do not think it is wholly permissible for a person to abandon their higher functions of reasoning to relieve a pain that will be naturally relieved before too long anyways.

 

And I’m sorry if you think you’ve seen both of us make better arguments. I cannot speak for Mowgli, but I can say that an argument, in my opinion, is good if it is consistent with what the speaker has been saying before, it is true (to the point that it can be debated legitimately), and is well thought out. And, per these criteria, my arguments have remained the same, in spite of your perception of them. Your arguments, however, have gotten better and better, and I must commend you (please excuse any condescension, it isn’t intended) on your efforts.

[Guest 420GSXR1000]

bump!!!!!

 

...ill get back to this tommorrow....can only write on this shit soo much in one night....talk soon FOLKVANG

 

graemlins/popcorn.gif

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue"> Yeah, you really strained yourself with that last one.

[Guest 420GSXR1000]

unlike you i have better things to do( and time) then write a novel on a BBS......but ill have time later......and thats not spite???? hmmmmmm

 

and about spelling and the such....read sum of ur own posts bright boy.....im @ werk gotta go

[Guest Crankshaft]

Originally posted by 420GSXR1000:

unlike you i have better things to do( and time) then write a novel on a BBS......but ill have time later......and thats not spite???? hmmmmmm

 

and about spelling and the such....read sum of ur own posts bright boy.....im @ werk gotta go

<font color ="midnightblue"> What about this has to do with your perspective on pot? Exactly--this isn't about your opinions on the subject at hand at all, it's about trying to make me look foolish. Grow up.

[Miller]

Originally posted by pgsrt-4:

I actually prefer to study in my so called "altered state of mind" and have found that I can memorize things much easier and understand things better like that.

This is because unlike alcohol which kills your brain cells, MJ increases brain wave activity. -Fact, look it up. As for me I usually will smoke a dime in a weekend and take about a 7-8 week break before doing it again. This is for two reasons; 1. it lowers your immune system if you do it frequently and 2. I have a ton of shit going on and if I smoked often or anywhere else but at a party I’d begin to feel shitty. I've been on an even longer break as of late because unfortunately the last stuff I tried was laced (still don’t know what), and i got really fucked up.

And what is this about unsuccessful smokers? A guy I played paintball with (helped me win some metals) started his own paintball company and he wasn’t even 21...and I still remember the day I met him. He had a tie dye grateful dead shirt on and he smelled like he had a chipotle burrito of dank in his back pocket.

Pot is not addictive; it is like masturbating...it’s just something to do.

[Miller]

I hate to pull this card guys...Murder and alcohol - both created by man. Weed - Created by God. no sac religion intended.

[Guest 420GSXR1000]

fang...i believe that in the other post you were crying about my spelling sarcasticly, so what should i do???? if you cant see the connection im sorry for not explaining it etter its too late to get into, rode all night long..."debate" ya later

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue"> *gah* bring up a genuine point man, or let it go. This isn't worth anyone's time, yours or mine included. No, I wasn't being sarcastic in the other posts. As I explained to Kyle (Captain Terrific), having proper grammar in a debate shows respect for those your debating with by courteously allowing them to read without having to stop and try and determine what you are saying. A good example? This:

 

Originally posted by 420GSXR1000:

unlike you i have better things to do( and time) then write a novel on a BBS......but ill have time later......and thats not spite???? hmmmmmm

<font color ="midnightblue">

 

What's not spite?? You've indicated no subject. The fact that you'll have time later? That you've compared my posts to BBS novels? That you have better things to do? What, exactly, is not spite? Thus, we see the trouble that arises from bad grammar/spelling.

 

And Mackzilla, I'll "pull your card" tomorrow. It's 2:43 am, and I ain't in the mood for this. As the good Doctor John said, "consider this a stay of execution."

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue">

Mackzilla---Pot isn’t addictive, eh? Prove it. And while your scrounging around for evidence, take a look at this site. I’d also like you to prove that MJ increases “brain wave” activity. I’ve never heard this before, and neither have the people who work at that drug and alcohol rehab center. I won’t say with certainty that it isn’t true; I’d just like you to show me your research on the matter. And for every person you show me who smokes weed and leads a “normal” life, I’ll show you a pot head loser who’s living from meal to meal and is going no where, who has no future. There are exceptions to every rule, but the mellowing effects of marijuana can not be claimed to be conducive to a successful lifestyle. Why go look for a job or career when you could just stay on the couch listening to Marley and toking up with colorful posters? And although it may be in dispute that pot is the sole reason for creating these delinquents, it cannot be argued with any impetus that someone with an inherently laid back constitution will find it any easier to shake it off and break free into the real world and a promising future with the aid of marijuana. It might feel good, but unless you’re a dealer or an avant-garde artist, it does nothing for your career.

 

And you yourself seem to be of the persuasion that becoming a habitual user has negative consequences, implying that you in some way acknowledge the fact that marijuana is a detrimental substance to one’s health. “…and if I smoked often or anywhere else but at a party I’d begin to feel shitty.” By your own admission you are able to discern the fact that marijuana has deleterious consequences upon a body. Why then would you defend it? Certainly you might take the stance that, “well, eating too much is bad for you too. Are you going to condemn that?” Well, yes, but eating, particularly healthy foods, is something natural and what our bodies were designed to do. There are no harmful effects from eating a pear or an apple, whereas the toxic chemical ingestion from marijuana is scientifically quantifiable.

 

Lastly, I’m sorry you had to pull that card too. Here’s why. Murder was not “created” by man, it is simply something that we do. I think that if you look into a bit, you’ll find that chimpanzees also murder, and across the entire board of the animal kingdom, we find examples of same species incidents of intentional killing. Thus, murder is “natural”, as it were. Yet this revelation is certainly no reason to jump up and kill your neighbor because she hasn’t returned your lawnmower (as tempting as it might be). Alcohol, although not readily available in nature in this form, is also of the earth. Barley, grapes, flax, hops, wheat, bacteria, fermentation…all of these things—and I think you’ll agree—were put here by “God”, as you’ve said, not man. Granted, we must slightly manipulate these ingredients into alcohol, but nonetheless, it is a natural process. And what of marijuana? Can you “get high” by simply standing in a field of hemp? Unless I’m terribly mistaken, I think the answer is no. And, even if we simply retain your original implied argument, we still find it to be inveterately flawed. If we take God into the picture, man was also created by God. Could man kill another man if he had not been created? Of course not. Therefore murder, in a round about way, was also created by God (the capacity for it, at least). Weed, which as we’ve stated must be altered for consumption and to receive its “benefits”, thence was also created by God (again, with our capacity to utilize it in mind). By your own line of reasoning, does this then mean that something created by this benevolent benefactor is thereby imbued with a quality of permissibility of use or action by or of man? If one can “smoke weed”, which God gave us the capacity to do, then cannot one also murder, which may further be counted among our God-given attributes? I hope your answer to this is also no.

[Guest Rane]

It goes like this.

 

Thou shall not kill.

 

Not Thou shall not blaze.