Del sol options

[wnaplay1647545503]

I've given up on the eclipse since the wife took it over. So I am wondering what realistically can be done to the del sol. What motor could be swapped in to make alot more power? Keyword realistic. Could it possibly be a contendor? Looking for suggestions and possible price scenerio's. What are they capabilities?

 

Thanks

[wnaplay1647545503]

So could it give lets say a stock mustang a run for its money, considering the swap of a B or H series motor. Safe to assume these are turbo motors? I'm wondering if it could be "feared". You know what I mean. Is it worth putting money in it. How much do you figure 1 of these swaps would cost?

[wnaplay1647545503]

What about real world capabilities. I was looking at a b16 jdm off ebay. But seriously I dont know anything about honda engines. B16 b22? WTF. Is it worth doing anything to? Can it win races? I' know with the right amount of money anything can win but realistically with a couple of grand dropped into it would it be worth it? Or should I look into a rwd domestic?

[88lx5oh]

dude i got beat in my 88 lx 5.0l on a 175 shot by a del sole with a motor swap and a t76. like really bad beating, from a 60 roll. they are light and wiht a built motor and tons of boost they are fast...

[wnaplay1647545503]

dude i got beat in my 88 lx 5.0l on a 175 shot by a del sole with a motor swap and a t76. like really bad beating, from a 60 roll. they are light and wiht a built motor and tons of boost they are fast...

 

Alright lets assume for a second that I am an idiot.

 

175 shot?

t76?

Boost? (must be turbo to have boost?)

 

Just for shits and giggles.

[Buckeye1647545503]

Alright lets assume for a second that I am an idiot.

 

175 shot?

t76?

Boost? (must be turbo to have boost?)

 

Just for shits and giggles.

 

Not to be rude just a thought. If you need too ask those q's you might not want to mess with it becouse in order to be "feared" you are going to need to do more than bolt a stock ____series motor in. you would need to do ether a built motor or/and a custom built turbo setup.

[Alex1647545498]

Eh, he doesn't need to do anything custom. There's so many swaps and turbo kits out there for hondas that he can just buy then bolt on. He's got enough know how and tools to do it. Just need someone to point him to the right direction.

[88lx5oh]

its actually "jets" not "pills" =)

[Buckeye1647545503]

I could talk all day about these things but none of them will be "feared" unless you add some heaping boost. There used to be a guy on here like 4 years ago with a red Integra.. He had a turbo and nitrous and was only running 12's, so it's not cheap to make Hondas fast. The good thing about Civics is there are a million brands selling a million parts..

That is what I was trying to get at.

[wnaplay1647545503]

Found some good info here.

 

http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html

 

I think I may look into the h22. I wonder what all will need to be changed in order to run this set up. If I buy a h22 off ebay, will I be able to just drop it in? What else will I need to change?

[wnaplay1647545503]

Temple of VTEC Asia Special Feature

 

 

 

 

VTEC

 

 

 

VTEC is one of Honda's greatest invention. Though an undisputed expert in turbocharging as evidenced by years of Formula-1 domination while Honda was active in the sport, Honda's engineers feels that turbocharging has disadvantages, primarily bad fuel economy, that made it not totally suitable for street use. At the same time, the advantages of working with smaller engines meant that smaller capacity engines with as high power output as possible (ie very high specific-output engines) are desirable for street engines.

 

Thus Honda invented VTEC which allows it to extract turbo level specific output from its engines without having to suffer from the disadvantages of turbocharging (though VTEC introduces disadvantages of its own).

 

The Temple of VTEC is specifically created by Jeff Palmer as a dedication to this great technology and the Temple of VTEC Asia is dedicated to the home of VTEC -and of Honda, Japan and the region of Asia.

 

In this permanent feature, we will examine the basic mechanism that make up the VTEC technology as well as the various implementations of VTEC.

 

 

 

 

 

The Basic VTEC Mechanism

The basic mechanism used by the VTEC technology is a simple hydraulically actuated pin. This pin is hydraulically pushed horizontally to link up adjacent rocker arms. A spring mechanism is used to return the pin back to its original position.

 

 

The VTEC mechanism is covered in great detail elsewhere so it is redundant to go through the entire mechanism here. Instead we will look at the basic operating principles which can be used in later sectionse to explain the various implementations VTEC by Honda.

 

To start on the basic principle, examine the simple diagram below. It comprises a camshaft with two cam-lobes side-by-side. These lobes drives two side-by-side valve rocker arms. The two cam/rocker pairs operates independently of each other. One of the two cam-lobes are intentionally drawn to be different. The one on the left has a "wilder" profile, it will open its valve earlier, open it more, and close it later, compared to the one on the right. Under normal operation, each pair of cam-lobe/rocker-arm assembly will work independently of each other.

 

 

 

 

VTEC uses the pin actuation mechanism to link the mild-cam rocker arm to the wild-cam rocker arm. This effectively makes the two rocker arms operate as one. This "composite" rocker arm(s) now clearly follows the wild-cam profile of the left rocker arm. This in essence is the basic working principle of all of Honda's VTEC engines.

 

 

 

Currently, Honda have implemented VTEC in four different configurations. For the rest of this feature, we will examine these four different implementations of VTEC.

 

 

 

 

 

DOHC VTEC

The pinacle of VTEC implementation is the DOHC VTEC engine. The first engine to benefit from VTEC is the legendary B16A, a 1595cc inline-4 16Valve DOHC engine with VTEC producing 160ps and first appearing in 1989 in the JDM Honda Integra XSi and RSi.

 

 

 

Examine the diagram of a typical Honda DOHC PGM-Fi non-VTEC engine on the left, in this case the 1590cc ZC DOHC engine. Note that each pair of cam-lobe and their corresponding rocker arms though adjacent, are spaced apart from each other.

 

 

 

In the DOHC VTEC implementation, Honda put an extra cam/rocker in between each pair of intake and exhaust lobes/rockers. The three cam/rocker assemblies are now next to each other. The new middle lobe is the "wild" race-tuned cam-lobe. Using VTEC to link up all three rocker arms together, Honda is able to use either the mild or the wild cam-lobes at will.

 

 

 

 

Note : Though the ZC and B16A are well-suited to illustrate the difference between plain-DOHC and DOHC-VTEC, the B16A engine is not derived from ZC. In fact, ZC and B16A have different bore and stroke. The same applies for the B18A and B18C engines used in the JDM Integra series.

 

DOHC VTEC implementations can produce extremely high specific outputs. The B16A for standard street use first produced 160ps and now 170ps. In the super-tuned B16B implementation used for the new JDM EK-series Honda Civic Type-R, 185ps was produced from the same 1595cc.

 

DOHC VTEC can also easily offer competitive power outputs to turbocharged engines for normal street use. For eg, the E-DC2 Integra Si-VTEC produces 180ps from the 1797cc DOHC VTEC B18C engine. This compares favourably to the 1.8l version of the RPS-13 Nissan 180SX which uses a 1.8l DOHC Turbo-Intercooled engine which produced 175ps.

 

 

 

 

 

SOHC VTEC

An alternative implementation of VTEC for high (versus very high) specific output is used in Honda's SOHC engines. SOHC VTEC engines have often been mistakenly taken as a 'poor' second-rate derivative of DOHC VTEC but this is not the true case. An SOHC engine head has advantages of a DOHC head mostly in terms of size (it is narrower) and weight. For more sedate requirements, an SOHC engine is preferable to the DOHC engine. SOHC VTEC is a power implementation of VTEC for SOHC engines with the express intention of extracting high specific output. Examine the diagram of a standard SOHC cam assembly on the right. Note that the pair of intake rocker arms are separated but adjacent to each other.

 

 

 

In the SOHC VTEC implementation (diagram on the right), Honda put a wild-cam lobe for the intake valves in the space between the two rocker arms.

 

Note that the two exhaust rocker arms are separated by the two intake rocker arms and the "tunnel" for the sparkplug cable connector. This is the reason why Honda implemented VTEC on the intake valves only.

 

 

 

 

 

SOHC VTEC engines are high specific output forms of the standard SOHC engines. The D15B engine used in the Civic/Civic Ferio VTi models (EG-series 1991 to 1995) gives 130ps from a 1493cc capacity. Bear in mind this kind of power levels are normally associated with 1.6l DOHC or even milder-tuned 1.8l DOHC fuel-injected engines !

 

 

 

 

 

VTEC-E

A novel implementation of VTEC in SOHC engines is the VTEC-E implementation (E for Economy). VTEC-E uses the principle of swirling to promote more efficient air-and-fuel mixing in the engine chambers. VTEC-E works by deactivating one intake valve. Examine the diagram below.

 

In the SOHC VTEC-E implementation, only one intake cam-lobe is implemented on the camshaft. Actually it is really a flat "ring". In operation this means the relevant rocker arm will not be activated causing the engine to effectively work in 12-valve mode. This promotes a swirl action during the intake cycle. VTEC is used to activate the inactive valve, making the engine work in 16-valve mode in more demanding and higher rpm conditions. Honda was able to implement air-fuel mixture ratios of more than 20:1 in VTEC-E during the 12-valve operating mode. The SOHC VTEC-E engined EG-series Civic ETi is able to return fuel consumptions of as good as 20km/litre or better!!

 

 

 

 

 

SOHC VTEC implemented for power is often mistaken as SOHC VTEC-E which is implemented for economy. It is worthwhile to note that the 1.5l SOHC VTEC-E used in the JDM Honda Civic ETi produces 92ps. This is in fact less than that produced by the standard 1.5l SOHC engine's 100ps which uses dual Keihin side-draft carburettors. SOHC VTEC in the D15B produces 130ps. This is 30% more than the standard SOHC implementation !

 

 

 

 

 

3-stage VTEC

Examine the SOHC VTEC and SOHC VTEC-E implementations. The clever Honda engineers saw that it is a logical step to merge the two implementations into one. This is in essence the 3-stage VTEC implementation. 3-stage VTEC is implemented on the D15B 1.5l SOHC engine in which the VTEC-E mechanism is combined with the power VTEC mechanism.

 

Many of us probably has laughed at the poor ignorant layman who said "I want power AND economy from my Honda". We know of course that power and economy are mutually exclusive implementations. Honda decided not to abide by this rule. Now, with 3-stage VTEC, we get BOTH power and economy !.

 

The diagram below illustrates the 3-stage VTEC implementation. The intake rocker arms have two VTEC pin actuation mechanisms. The VTEC-E actuation assembly is located above the camshaft while the VTEC (power) actuation assembly is the standard wild-cam lobe and rocker assembly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Below 2500rpm and with gentle accelerator pressure, neither pin gets actuated. The engine operates in 12V mode with very good fuel combustion efficiency. When the right foot gets more urgent and/or above 2500rpm, the upper pin gets actuated. This is the VTEC-E mechanism at work and the engine effectively enters into the '2nd stage'. Now D15B 3-stage works in 16V mode (both intake valves works from the same mild cam-lobe).

 

Stage 2 operates from around 2500rpm to 6000rpm. When the rpm exceeds 6000rpm, the VTEC mechanism activates the wild cam-lobe pushing the engine into the '3rd stage', the power stage. Now the engine gives us the full benefit of its 130ps potential !

 

The 3-stage VTEC D15B engine is used on the current EK-series JDM Civic/Civic Ferio VTi/Vi together with Honda's new Multimatic CVT transmission. Stage-1 12V or "lean-burn" operation mode is indicated to the driver by an LED on the dashboard. The 2500rpm cutover from lean-burn to normal 16V operation in fact varies according to load and driver requirements. With gentle driving, lean-burn can operate up to 3000rpm or higher. Stage-3 may not always be activated. The Multimatic transmission has a selector for Economy, Drive, and Sports mode. In Economy mode for eg, the ECU operates with a max rpm of around 4800rpm even at Wide-Open-Throttle positions.

 

The essence of 3-stage VTEC is power AND economy implemented on a 1.5l SOHC PGM-Fi engine. Many people mistakes 3-stage VTEC as a "superior" evolution of the power oriented DOHC VTEC implementation, describing DOHC VTEC as "the older 2-stage VTEC" and implying an inferior relationship. This is totally wrong because DOHC VTEC is tuned purely for high specific output and sports/racing requirements. 3-stage VTEC is in truth an evolution of SOHC VTEC and VTEC-E, merging the two implementations into one.

 

 

 

 

 

Implementations of VTEC in Honda models

DOHC VTEC is the implementation producing the highest-powered engines and used in the highest performing models in the Honda line-up. The smallest DOHC VTEC engine is the legendary B16A. A 1595cc 160-170ps engine that first appeared in the 1989 Honda Integra XSi and RSi, it now powers the famous Civic SiR models. The B16B is a special hand-tuned super high output derivative of the B16A giving 185ps and used in the Civic Type-R.

 

The B18C is a 180ps 1797cc engine that appears in the high performance Integra line-up. The B18CSpec96 is a special hand-tuned super high output version of the B18C giving 200ps and used in the legendary Integra Type-R.

 

DOHC VTEC implementations now appear in most of Honda's great line-up. The Accord SiR used to have a detuned 190s H22A 2.2l DOHC VTEC which was also used on the same period Prelude Si-VTEC in which it gave 200ps. The current Accord line now has a 2.0l DOHC VTEC engine that gives 180ps and 200ps in the Accord SiR and SiR-T models respectively while the current Prelude SiR still uses the H22A 2.2l DOHC VTEC engine giving 200ps. A special hand-tuned version of H22A is used in the Prelude Type-S and gives 220ps.

 

The highest level of DOHC VTEC implementation is of course in the NSX. Implemented V6 DOHC VTEC, originally in 3.0l and now in a larger 3.2l form, it tops the 280ps "legal" limit imposed by the Japanese government for stock street cars.

 

SOHC VTEC appears in more guises in the Honda line-up. The smallest SOHC VTEC engine is the D15B, used on Civic and Civic Ferio VTi/Vi models in Japan. The D16A 1590cc SOHC VTEC (power) engine giving 130ps is also used on the Civic Coupe and the Civic Ferio EXi (a 4WD model). SOHC VTEC also appears on the Accord models but not the Integra or Prelude line-up. In fact in markets which Honda considers not sufficiently advanced to warrant the DOHC VTEC engines (Malaysia being one of them), Honda markets SOHC VTEC as the top engine for their line-up.

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

In this permanent feature, we have examined the basic principle on which VTEC works as well as the various implementations of VTEC. In a follow-up feature, we will look at alternative variable valve timing mechanisms which are implemented by other manufacturers.

 

 

 

 

Author : Wong, Kong-Ngai

Copyright : Temple of VTEC and Temple of VTEC ASIA

 

Notice : Most of the illustrations used in this feature are taken without permission from magazines and the Honda Japan's homepage. They may be withdrawn or replaced without notice.

[wnaplay1647545503]

Thats funny I was just on that exact site and was just about to post a link. I read the swap requirements but they still seem confusing to me.

http://www.hasport.com/Tech/Installs/Swap%20Outlines/92-95%20Civic%20H.htm

[wnaplay1647545503]

The h22 seems to be a more powerful motor. Are there any advantages of the b18c1 gs-r engine over the h22? My reasoning is this is a project car and unlike the eclipse it doesnt need to be all that economical. Which engine would you go with?

[Guest fixerupper]

Ehhhh, ok I'm not a freaking genius with Hondas... yet... But let's just say a H22 is a little heavy for a Del Sol. I'm not talking OMFG your front bumper looks like a body kit, but enough you'll notice a hefty handling difference. If you do decide to go with the H22 consider the wiring complexes with it and all honda engines, make sure they match up, or you can at least make it so they do with different wiring harness', splicing, etc. I was actually considering the same swap for my CRX, but the weight difference is kind of unrealistic. You could consider a D16A6, which is a JDM, but there are some out there that were the first year of the VTec DOHC VTEC's, and run upwards of 160hp, which is decent enough for a little 1.6 liter. But, consider those hard to find because they came in the '89 Integra.

 

I don't know what you've got in your Del Sol as of this instant. Could be a D series or B. Consideirng the year, and model Si, etc. But for let's say "fearing" performance an older B16 may work well for you, and like I said there are some pretty decent DOHC D series out there. But with a good amount of boost and topside engine work, it could be fairly fearable. If you've got the money completely rebuilding it could definitely put some ass into it, but is costly as hell.

 

I understand the whole "import tuners are gay club", but really exhaust work, boost, and a little shot of nitrous oxide could never really hurt. But remember the whole of import tuning is using a all that power to get a lighter body moving.

[OGRE]

I've given up on the eclipse since the wife took it over. So I am wondering what realistically can be done to the del sol. What motor could be swapped in to make alot more power? Keyword realistic. Could it possibly be a contendor? Looking for suggestions and possible price scenerio's. What are they capabilities?

 

Thanks

 

Burn it.

[Guest fixerupper]

All d-series are single overhead engines, and yes even a small shot of nitrous on a stock Honda engine can hurt (I blew up two of them on a 55 shot). Please stop posting.

 

Listen. I have a D series in my Integra, in fact the older iIntegras have DOHC D series. Mine is a D16A1. In fact the D16A1,3, and ZC (which is a A6) are all DOHC. I've personally never seen a SOHC Integra, while I know there may be one or two out there though. But you're right I should've mentioned the suspension additives, and the engine work for the nitrous, but hey no need to tell me to stop posting.

[Guest fixerupper]

No problem. I understand, if you think I'm wrong then just tell me, and If anyone wants one of those I have one sitting in my backyard. :woowoo:

[wnaplay1647545503]

Okay my bad they did make dohc d-series back before god created man, sorry.

 

Jason, you should swap a beautiful piece of machinery like this in your nice car:

 

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/774000-774999/774812_9_full.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

What the hell is it?

[Guest fixerupper]

It's a D series engine, most likely from an older Integra. It's DOHC and has anywhere from 113hp to 1600hp. Good engine for light bodied cars like my Integra LS Special.

[wnaplay1647545503]

It's a D series engine, most likely from an older Integra. It's DOHC and has anywhere from 113hp to 1600hp. Good engine for light bodied cars like my Integra LS Special.

 

Whoa 1600hp is more than my tires can handle.

[Nitrousbird]

The car was built for economy, not speed. Just like the Yugo, only better. Leave it at that, and save up for something worth modding. This is good advice, and your pocket book will thank me.

[byhi]

so one of my friends used to have a red del sol with a b18c5 engine swap (USDM Integra Type R motor) and would take on many many cars. A notable race was when he took a c4 from a dig. That was pretty cool because the guy was real nice and was amazed. He had a greddy cat back, greddy headers, and CAI. The vlsd is an awsome extra to the fwd b/c you can hook up to much better. So i would say go for the del sol. My girlfriend has one, d16 vtec, and is turboing hers soon. It wont be crazy fast but will be able to hang with some quicker cars. It's also a great looking car with crazy amounts of room inside, seriously. Its like some kind of space warp thingy b/c my roomate is 6' 3" and he fits comfortabley. Also if you just lower it and put some nice wheels, like mugen or old school volks, works, then it looks amazing.

[Guest fixerupper]

Whoa 1600hp is more than my tires can handle.

For damn sure... I actually heard it's a honda prototype that makes that. The older the better. :asshole: Of course I meant 160hp. Nitrousbird is probably right too. Imports are so much more expensive to build, and can become bigger money pits than anything else.

[SlowmotionMotorsports]

Here is a link to one we helped build and fully tuned at the Shop.

http://www.boostworthy.com/slowmoforum/viewtopic.php?t=1392&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

480WHp good enough for you??

 

Joshua

SlowMotion Motprsports

[wnaplay1647545503]

Whats up with the white one out front, and the white 300zx in back?