CJINOHIO03 Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Just doing some research. CJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Dyno Daddy. I'm sure he'll pipe in if he wants the numbers to be known publically. However, I will say that after seeing his results with it, you'll have no problem running it in a high performance application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22453&highlight=E85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 my truck is built to run on E85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Dyno Daddy. I'm sure he'll pipe in if he wants the numbers to be known publically. However, I will say that after seeing his results with it, you'll have no problem running it in a high performance application. LOL, yeah, he did OK. http://forumimages.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-rice.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 LOL, yeah, he did OK. http://forumimages.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-rice.gif biggest.understatement.evar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Doesn't Titan Motorsports use E-85 on one of their drag cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSSon Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 What is required to convert a non flex-fuel vehicle to run on E-85? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbomark Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 33 percent more injector, 33 percent more fuel pump, anodize your fuel rails and all other bare aluminum fittings, make sure that the injectors are ethanol compatible, as well as your fpr. Also some way to control your fuel injection, piggyback will work, but standalone is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 What is required to convert a non flex-fuel vehicle to run on E-85? Different timing and wayyy different fuel mapping. Most Flex fuel GMs/Fords have an alcohol % sensor which scales accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 33 percent more injector, 33 percent more fuel pump, anodize your fuel rails and all other bare aluminum fittings, make sure that the injectors are ethanol compatible, as well as your fpr. Also some way to control your fuel injection, piggyback will work, but standalone is best. Not to mention line sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 biggest.understatement.evar! 100 octane 4 lyfe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ponyfreak Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I will start off with the important summary first for those who do not like to read any tech: If your engine/turbo system is well engineered E85 offers at least 3-4% HP gains (even more low end torque) on the lower boost levels due to the advanced timing, but at the end of the spectrum will surpass 93octane and make far more power than can be achieved with 93 alone. However if your car has undersized turbines, intercooler, or is supercharged (read overall inefficient) I am confident that E85 could really offer some great power improvements for you guys. For more to read about this go to turbomustangs.com You can read a huge thread about this fuel in real world applications with more back to back testing that is stickied in the turbo tech forum. 25% more fuel capacity is needed. The widebands read a/f ratio of the exhaust. With a lambda your car will needed to be tuned at 11:1-12.0 just like gas for maximum power. Although realistically the fuel is burning at a 9:1 ratio. We ran the same fuel as 93 except 30% increased across the board. We had to decrease the fuel to a 25% increase to achieve the correct a/f ratio. Even with this increased fuel at 5400+rpms the car wanted to go really rich all the time which really hurt power. Even more fuel was needed to be taken out up top compared with 93 octane. I found this rather odd. E85 acts just like 110 octane. It does not really make sense to run unless you are going over 10-12psi. After that point when the 93 octane starts to run out of octane and you have to lower the timing. Timing is where the real gains are had with this fuel. Even on the lower psi levels due to the extra timing I saw gains of 3% everywhere. But up top at the 13-15psi levels gains of 7-8% power were being achieved. Power @ 15psi and E85 was around 1200rwhp compared to around 1100 on pump gas. Still only a 8-9% increase.I could not reach a power level (boost level) where the E85 would have really kicked ass (15+psi). The tuner and myself believe while my car could have made 1250-1300 to the tires of 93 octane and 18-20 psi, 1400+ could have been had with E85 no problem at all. Please keep in mind that I believe the main reason for such a minimal increase in power on my car is that even at 15psi and 93 octane with that big single and the huge intercooler the intake temps on my car were so incredibly low that we still kept a shit load of timing in it. The pressure ratio was right at or sometimes below 1:1. My car was able to have about 6 more degrees of timing compared to when it was supercharged, and 4+ more than other side mount TT Vipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Power @ 15psi and E85 was around 1200rwhp compared to around 1100 on pump gas. Still only a 8-9% increase.I could not reach a power level (boost level) where the E85 would have really kicked ass (15+psi). The tuner and myself believe while my car could have made 1250-1300 to the tires of 93 octane and 18-20 psi, 1400+ could have been had with E85 no problem at all. i just wanted to see that posted again... ...because its stupid. <in a really, really good way> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ponyfreak Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I personally called it quits on the E85 up top. After 12 1000rwhp+ runs of being in the car and feeling everything shaking and torquing the car it was really making me nervous. 1100rwhp is a lot of fucking power. Just sitting in the car while it is making that kind of power is amazing. We did however stick around to see SVS's car made 1800+rwhp. Progress gets a little slow after you have to calculate HP off of torque after every run because you pinned the 1500rwhp dyno for 2000rpm's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinner Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I personally called it quits on the E85 up top. After 12 1000rwhp+ runs of being in the car and feeling everything shaking and torquing the car it was really making me nervous. 1100rwhp is a lot of fucking power. Just sitting in the car while it is making that kind of power is amazing. We did however stick around to see SVS's car made 1800+rwhp. Progress gets a little slow after you have to calculate HP off of torque after every run because you pinned the 1500rwhp dyno for 2000rpm's ok and you havent posted video of this because why?????? sorry back on topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ponyfreak Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 video's of their 1750 hp runs have been posted on here before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 What is required to convert a non flex-fuel vehicle to run on E-85? http://e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php IS IT POSSIBLE TO CONVERT A VEHICLE THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR GASOLINE TO OPERATE ON E85? Yes. However, there are no conversions or aftermarket parts that have been certified by the EPA as meeting the standards to maintain clean exhaust emissions. Technically speaking, converting a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only to operate on another form of fuel is a violation of the federal law and the offender may be subject to significant penalties. No aftermarket conversion company has taken the initiative to certify an E85 kit that would allow a gasoline vehicle to operate on 85 percent ethanol. The differences in fuel injector size, air-fuel ratio, PCM calibrations, material composition of the fuel lines, pumps and tanks are just a few of the components that contribute to making an E85 conversion extremely complex. Additionally, the production of vehicles by auto manufacturers that are capable of operating on unleaded gasoline or E85 (flexible fuel vehicles) at little or no additional cost over the gasoline only model, provide little incentive for a conversion company to undertake the very expensive and time consuming task of aftermarket certification. theres a little more to it than upping the fuel delivery. e85 can eat fuel lines and seals if thet are not upgraded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJINOHIO03 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Well I have read that too but havent seen anything specific on what need to be changed. It is supposed to be slightly corrosive but not as bad as methanol or alchol. It says on most new cars there isnt a price increase on cars that run e85 to regular gas. So I am not sure what needs to changed. maybe fuel lines or rails? but not sure what a e85 car from the factory uses compared to a regular gas car... ANybody have any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJINOHIO03 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 here is a good research report done by a college on a ls1 http://www.engr.unl.edu/~ethanol/unl-sae2.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 so, if ive read this correctly, e-85 runs somewhere around the 100 octane mark? and sells for about the same price as regular gas? sounds like a winning situation for anyone with the gumption to make the switch in a performance application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ponyfreak Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Well I have read that too but havent seen anything specific on what need to be changed. It is supposed to be slightly corrosive but not as bad as methanol or alchol. It says on most new cars there isnt a price increase on cars that run e85 to regular gas. So I am not sure what needs to changed. maybe fuel lines or rails? but not sure what a e85 car from the factory uses compared to a regular gas car... ANybody have any ideas? E85 is nowhere near as corrosive as alchohol or methanol. I have heard of guys running aluminum rails and not having a problem, but have heard a couple guys leaving E85 in their carb's over winter and then having some minor pitting. I have braided SS lines for all of fuel, and just aluminum rails and regulator. I am not worried at all. I would be jsut a little hesitant to running E85 with the aluminum fuel lines though. Just a little pitting in that thin tubing could be disasterous. The only E85 car I have seen had plastic fuel lines. The additional charge is due ot the ehtanol sensor and extra computer stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ponyfreak Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 E85 is more like 105-108 octane value. The fuel is usually cheaper than gas due to gov. subsidies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 E85 is more like 105-108 octane value. The fuel is usually cheaper than gas due to gov. subsidies. so, even more awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 E85 is more like 105-108 octane value. The fuel is usually cheaper than gas due to gov. subsidies. Joe, I don't mean to debate you, but every report I have seen on E85 comes across as 100 octane rating. NDE and GM white papers cite it so. DJ, Only downside is, Ethanol by nature requires a lower stoich point, nearly half of gasoline. You would consume close to twice as much mile per mile, with petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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