Turbotrio Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Obviously Ive kinda refrained from posting on here and most forums strictly due to lack of time. However, the Colt/his PR Guy bringing up John's Z06 every chance they got made me start to post a bit more on some of the thinking/reasoning/and what exactly is going on with the car. Now, all that aside, Im curious on posts made on forums (this one or any other you are on) about a specific shop's work or ethics or parts sales or whatever. Just so that its a post in some negative context about any given shop/business. My question is how much you tend to read into it? Does it depend on who is posting (Ie: some long-standing member or some kid with 2 posts from some other city that cant even make why hes pissed make sense) or is it a kinda "Strike" system to where one post can be a fluke but 2 or 3 and then regardless of reading them there might be something to it? My next question is whether said shop responding and posting up its side (which inevitably turns into a 4 page back-and-forth flame fest) does any good or does it make it worse? Its just extremely frustrating that any 13-yr old kid with a skateboard can get pissed at you (a shop) because his mom grounded him that day and he called IPS to ask about a crazy fast colt hes modding for when he turns 16 since he only needs to save up $5k and we tell him its impossible and he posts about how stupid we are and how much we suck on every little forum he can find and its either our job to waste time to make sure everyone understands why we said/did what we said/did or just let it ride and hope most people see thru it. Just wanted to get some feedback to decide on letting stuff go in the future and not even bothering to respond or if there is any use in making sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that said shop didnt do anything to deserve what is being posted/said. Of course this is all hypothetical but Im just curious, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Be bigger than them and don't post back unless you're personally attacked. Every business or organization has people out there that badmouth them. Life lesson, move on and let the superficial shit stay just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Be bigger than them and don't post back unless you're personally attacked. Every business or organization has people out there that badmouth them. Life lesson, move on and let the superficial shit stay just that. If its someone saying/posting something about me personally that is EXACTLY how I see it. When its against the shop for some reason it completely changes for me because its *possibly* effecting much more than our reputation in terms of lost business down the road. I dunno. Suggestion noted though... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Jeff, don't even bother posting. You would be surprised how much your personal postings effect the total image of your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old dirty bastard Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 I wouldn't worry to much about those kinds of post there has been several people who have dealt w/ your shop and have nothing but good things to say about it(myself included)Just keep up the good work down there and everything will be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total Sign Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 One thing to look at- The people who DO stand up for your shop are the people with the fast cars. Most of the fast street cars in town were built by you guys. When someone who bad mouths you can build something faster AND more reliable, then they can post about how IPS "sucks." I deal with the same bs you do every day. When someone else does it better, they can tell people they are faster. Hasn't happened yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Jeff, don't even bother posting. You would be surprised how much your personal postings effect the total image of your business. i could not agree more. if anything, let other defend the shop for you. if you are right by your customers, and you treat business with a high level of ethics and honesty, then you wont have to defend youself, as others you have done right by will do it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Posting a response could be more detrimental than the original post, even if everything in the post is true. It needs to be worded very carefully, and whoever is writing it needs to realize that it will be read by potential customers. I think some very good shops have gone under due to their owners large heads or inability to play well with others. It's a shame, because the more shops there are, the better deals I get as a consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's a shame, because the more shops there are, the better deals I get as a consumer. I thought you were a socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 oh, he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTHER91 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 well the good thing about your shop jeff is that it is in the real world and the people that get on 33 fourms and chat or post abotu someone they dont liek wont be by to your shop, to either give or take bussiness away. hopefully most people (like me) have read all of the "flame wars" between the two parties and then actually make up there own mind by dealing with them personally. I for one like ot be an informed customer, this is one way to be informed. You can think of it this way just like was posted before all big bussiness have haters and boycotters, dosnt mean they still arent a good company to most (also if you look at the one or maybe 2 people that have a negative opinion about your shop have they ever been there or spent money there? ( how many people have nothing but praise for you ) they have nothing but your personality on here as what the shop is like. i wouldnt post be the adult ( just be a man unlike the other party) and let the "sponsored" talk there talk, they in the grand scheme (sp?) they are insignificant and dont effect many peoples opinion and if the do you dont want them in your shop anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrelyNutsDSP Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Jeff, We've done business in the past and I was pleased with the results. I don't think that any other shop in this region could have done the custom type of work you did for me quite as well. I appreciated the straightforwardness and ability to talk one-on-one with the guys working on my car, and I am a satisfied customer. Simply put, "keyboard warriors" will always troll around the internet for various reasons and, being a service-oriented business, that leaves your shop open for criticism by those with no experience whatsoever. I think we all realize that they feel like personal attacks because you built your shop yourself, you're an owner-operator, but let the children be children. PR rep K04 boy just wants sparks to fly, regardless of what kind of work your shop does (if you did landscaping, he'd talk shit about mulch), but it's their hobby while it's your occupation. I personally think you should give it no more thought and ignore the flaming. Your shop already has a good reputation, leave the shit-talking to the "GC posse" and degenerates in Akron/Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonkiller Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Dont Even worry about it, Look how many rad cars roll around columbus that you guys have done work on, Hell I drive a VW and I've never been to your shop. But I know from some of the guys I see or hang out with on the weekends or see at out meet up spots that IPS is fuckin AWSOME, Shit I have even reffered people to your shop and others like LaSota and DynoTune, You guys have nothing but Good things said about you. If you keep continuing what you have and the Good word and bad Ass cars you guys pump outta your garage you got nothin to worry about. Couple bad comments sure might hurt you, But when those people get killed from a dig or buslengths are put on them from a roll and afterwords the driver reply's "It was done at IPS" thats worth 100 times than what some internet e fighting thug has to say on a forum. I'm a Dubohio Moderator, People dont ever take us seriously, Do I care? nope I just know I have a ton of rad friends and we keep partyin hard and racing every weekend we can, Let the haters hate the only person there makin look bad is themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Obviously Ive kinda refrained from posting on here and most forums strictly due to lack of time. However, the Colt/his PR Guy bringing up John's Z06 every chance they got made me start to post a bit more on some of the thinking/reasoning/and what exactly is going on with the car. Now, all that aside, Im curious on posts made on forums (this one or any other you are on) about a specific shop's work or ethics or parts sales or whatever. Just so that its a post in some negative context about any given shop/business. Everything that you say, or any person, directly connected to IPS says on CR, or any other form is a reflection on IPS. That of course can be good and bad, and you have to remember that it's all open to interpretation. You consider anything I say as being bullshit, when I take something that you say and interpret it. Just because everything I say you feel is bullshit, does not mean that is the way everyone else sees it. And my interpretations get them thinking anyway. You need to be considering that. My question is how much you tend to read into it? Does it depend on who is posting (Ie:some long-standing member or some kid with 2 posts from some other city that cant even make why hes pissed make sense ) or is it a kinda "Strike" system to where one post can be a fluke but 2 or 3 and then regardless of reading them there might be something to it? My next question is whether said shop responding and posting up its side (which inevitably turns into a 4 page back-and-forth flame fest) does any good or does it make it worse? This statement ;some long-standing member or some kid with 2 posts from some other city that cant even make why hes pissed make sense; just smacks of unprofessional ism. Even if you are not referring to coltboostin, it implies that you are. Problem is two fold, he's not some noob any more, even though the war between IPS (you) and him has been going on since he got here. Second is that even though he will probably never be an IPS customer (not implying why, or slamming IPS) he should be treated by IPS (you and others) as well as any current IPS customer, with respect for him, his car (you tend to bash it's a Colt ALOT) and his ideas. If he indicated something that is untrue, and you feel the need to rebut it, do it with numbers, facts and figures, not "Who cars, you drive a XXXX piece of shit so what?" Its just extremely frustrating that any 13-yr old kid with a skateboard can get pissed at you (a shop) because his mom grounded him that day and he called IPS to ask about a crazy fast colt hes modding for when he turns 16 since he only needs to save up $5k and we tell him its impossible and he posts about how stupid we are and how much we suck on every little forum he can find and its either our job to waste time to make sure everyone understands why we said/did what we said/did or just let it ride and hope most people see thru it. This is too easy, reply that his opinions have been noted, and will be given all the consideration due considering the source and leave it at that. Or don't bother replying at all. Defending your reputation, skills and knowledge to a 13 yr old is a waist of time and resources. If there are VAILD points made, deal with those, but trying to defend yourself to some kid is pointless. Just wanted to get some feedback to decide on letting stuff go in the future and not even bothering to respond or if there is any use in making sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that said shop didn't do anything to deserve what is being posted/said. Of course this is all hypothetical but I'm just curious, Jeff Truth be told, you tend to open yourself up to scrutiny, and regardless of your personal opinion of me and my thoughts, give this some consideration, because it's these very things that I am mentioned in this post that I use when I decide to start making asshole comments. It's called ammo, and without it, I have nothing to say. There will always be people like me, that for whatever reason, will poke at you if you leave them an opening. And the problem is that you have a reputation of not only yourself, but the company that you represent to consider, I have nothing to consider other than looking silly myself. Everything you say, your opinions and all are looked at as a reflection on IPS. Personally, if I had a performance garage like yours I would require anyone working there to sign a gag order pertaining to Internet forums, requiring them to either not post at all or to do is anonymously. Remember it's FAR easier to get on the web and say something galactically stupid than it is to explain the smallest of mistakes. I am not going to rehash the Ricky thing, nor am I going to try to sit here and bash Rick, but you know that what his reputation was when he worked for you, regardless of his actual skills, his reputation was coupled to your shop. And when he had problems with cars, even if they NEVER were in your shop, there is an implication that IPS worked on those cars, because an employee of IPS worked on those cars and what ever was done right or wrong is a reflection of IPS Motorsports. I realize that the IPS thing is a dream to you and you it going because it was something you loved doing. But now it's a living breathing business and it needs to be looked at as such, both in it's strength's of knowledge and skill, and its' weaknesses, namely the personalities of the employee's both in person and online. You have no anonymity online, at least on CR and that hurts you has a business in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinner Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 the way I see it is like this. Most shops will always have unhappy customers (no matter what you do). With those people its usally about petty things like time frame or how something wasn't done just the way they wanted (even if it was the wrong way and was explained to them why it was wrong/ bad what have you). They will jump on the internet and nit pick things to death I take that with a grain of salt. Then you have people like that JP and the like that will come on and bust your chops and rag on the shop when they have zero expirence with the shop havent bought anything and have no intentions of ever using the shop. personally when it come to JP and his crew they just do it to give you guys a hard time and to get a rise out of you. once again since they have no actual expirence with the shop just take it with a grain of salt. Then you have guys like sam and tilley that have actually had work done through the shop and been very happy with everything done. Thats what i look for since they have dealt with you guys understand how everything works and understand the time frames involved and say nothing but good things about you guys. If someone like one of these 2 came on and had a legit beef with the shop I would that would have to possibly look somewhere else. So far my personal expirence all though limited has been great I PMed Greg about some suspension part for my car he was able to get back with me very quickly and at a price I couldn't beat. later this summer once my boys are all home and everything is straightened out budget wise I plan on having IPS order my parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedfocus1647545489 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 My opinion: I think it's always best to just ignore the "haters" because they are likely just looking to get a rise out of you anyway - and when you open youself up to them, they have nothing better to do than push you until you say something to potentially make yourself look bad to others. I am making no refference to any particular person as I don't usually read the flame wars anyway and wouldn't know details. Look at any big company, especially in a hormone-loaded market such as automotive performance and race parts. Most of those companies will have a voice on the internet in some small way, but you could hire a team of people to work around the clock on the 'net in defense of your business and get nowhere. You're much better off to spend your time touting your companies qualities than to try and defend yourself against the internet whorde. The bigger the company grows, the more you are going to have unhappy customers (even if it's only , say .5% - the more you have the more people that is), no matter how much you try and hope to resolve things, some people are much more into badmouthing businesses over the internet than finding a resolution. I think alot of the time people are too embarassed to ask questions of the people doing the work, because no one wants to say "I don't know" to another guy when it comes to cars. It's pretty easy for that to turn to an E-war because they may not say anything at all to the shop, but will run home and look for someplace to vent about it. Hell, I see all the time where people are posting all about shoddy work and such on the net, but if you read on you'll find that many never said a thing to the shop... they just took it to the internet to whine instead of looking for a solution. Look at any of the thousands of consumer ratings sites. Many are full of negative responses on decent products because people are generally MUCH more likey to seek out such a place to vent about recieving a bad product than to look for a way to express how happy they are with a product. You'll never get away from that kind of person, and try as you might to avoid it, the list will grow with the business. In the end, all you can really do is try to make the unhappy customers into happy ones, and beyond that just let the lost causes go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedfocus1647545489 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Also, FWIW. I would have no problem trying you guys out if I needed a shop - based mostly on the fact that I know people that have dealt with your company personally and were satisfied. I don't put near as much stock in bad internet reviews that I read as I do good reviews from people I actually know (not those that I only E-know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 THanks for all the replies. Ill take all of the advice and be happy knowing we have established enough of a repuatation that one off-the-wall post isnt going to change anyones perception of us. It just kills me to not defend us (esp when a post is all based on selective memeory like in a thread on here now) but once its gone back-and-forth a few times I always wish I had never said anything. Whos right or wrong quickly becomes irrelevant and it just turns into some sort of political campaign add or something lol. Anyway, thaks again for all the feedback and advice is taken. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 I just finished the other thread that I assume brought on this one http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25582 Jeff, I must say that you did an excellent job at making yourself look like a condenscending asshole, which reflects directly upon your shop. The safest thing you could have done was nothing, and let your happy customers slap the guy around. Instead, you directly attacked them. Who would want to be your customer, if it means there is a chance of getting attacked by the shop owner if you tell anyone that you had a bad experiance? That's definately not good business practice. I can't say that I personally would have any desire to have any work done by your shop (but I do all my work myself/with the help of friends) but at the same time I would be unwilling to go to you for parts, even if you can produce them cheaper than a competitor. The way you act on here is enough to keep me from ever doing business with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTHER91 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 I just finished the other thread that I assume brought on this one http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25582 Jeff, I must say that you did an excellent job at making yourself look like a condenscending asshole, which reflects directly upon your shop. The safest thing you could have done was nothing, and let your happy customers slap the guy around. Instead, you directly attacked them. Who would want to be your customer, if it means there is a chance of getting attacked by the shop owner if you tell anyone that you had a bad experiance? That's definately not good business practice. I can't say that I personally would have any desire to have any work done by your shop (but I do all my work myself/with the help of friends) but at the same time I would be unwilling to go to you for parts, even if you can produce them cheaper than a competitor. The way you act on here is enough to keep me from ever doing business with you. i dont think they sell anything for 4-wheel drives. or gay cars lol (perrywinkle mr2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Instead, you directly attacked them. Who would want to be your customer, if it means there is a chance of getting attacked by the shop owner if you tell anyone that you had a bad experiance? That's definately not good business practice. Then you obviously didnt read my "War & Peace" Re-cap (and i dont blame you as I wouldnt have either). The reason for my obviously pissed-off tone was not just the time-frame of when the car was delivered to when a girlfiend posted, but mainly due to the fact that THEY DID NOT WANT ANY TUNING OR WIRING looked at MONTHS ago when the car was here as they couldnt afford to pay for it. How can you post complaining about something you couldnt afford to have us take care of? Its mind-boggling to me and I did nothing to mask it (I still cant comprehend the logic)... Let me post about how bad Wendys sucks in a thread on how someone else loves them because all I had was $2 for a 5-piece nugget and a small diet coke but I REALLY wanted a Frosty too (since its so hot) but couldnt afford it. They didnt make me happy by cooling me off and giving me a sugar-fix and I should tell everyone I know they suck? Sure... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Jeff, I understand completely where you are coming from, but that doesn't change the point I made. It still would have been in your best interest to remain silent on the matter. I know it's hard to keep from defending yourself, but it proves to be that much more entertaining when someone unaffiliated with the shop is the one that blasts the person causing problems. One thing that seems to be lacking from business in general these days is the old motto "the customer is always right." When you start shying away from that principal, you start fucking people (or giving the illusion that you are fucking people). That's how you lose business. Argueing with anyone that has been through your shop says "I'm right and my customer's are idiots" regardless of your intentions, and no customer wants to be treated that way. It doesn't matter if you treat everyone that walks through your door like gold, your posts on here give the impression that it's quite the opposite with the exceptions of Sam and the Good Doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 One thing that seems to be lacking from business in general these days is the old motto "the customer is always right." When you start shying away from that principal, you start fucking people (or giving the illusion that you are fucking people). That's how you lose business. Argueing with anyone that has been through your shop says "I'm right and my customer's are idiots" regardless of your intentions, and no customer wants to be treated that way. I apologized for my tone in the posts and I was being sincere. Justified or not, I was just posting the reasoning behind why this wasnt a simple: "Oh, I am very sorry you had a bad experience here. What can we do to change your mind and make things better?" Remember, this is all MONTHS and MONTHS old. We have already been down that road. The answer to that question is "Tune and/or diagnose the ARC2 issues for free as we have no money to pay you to do so. Mind you, we are asking nicely for this free service AFTER we decided to void a legal contract and disappear with $1200 of your money for over 6 months and made you waste countless hours of phone calls, Voicemails, and even consultation attorney fees as to how you should go about trying to get your money back from us because we were too busy to get back to you" Again, the customer may be always right, but not this time Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelloman4571647545499 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 All Im going to say is that I talked to Jeff numerous times through PMs and he was ALWAYS speedy, VERY good prices and curtious. I would have no problem EVER going to IPS. I hit Jeff up at three different occasions and same result every time. I think that is hard to find let alone see these days out of a performance shop. They have my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelloman4571647545499 Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 ohh and BTW you guys sell V-band conversion for a 5-bolt (GT series), 3" V-band Clamp, V-Band and 3" Machined Flange and clamp Set? sorry wanted to throw this out there real quick while Jeff is reading these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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