Heisman Discussion

[verse]

I know most of you guys are going to be all over the OSU players. No Ted Ginn will not win the Heisman, regardless what anyone thinks. But in all seriousness, after tonight which is the 5th game of the season Garrett Wolfe will have over rushing 1100 yards. That is rediculous. Of course he's not going to get the most serious votes, only b/c he's in a lower division (even though he put up over 280 all purpose yards verus Ohio State).

 

What do you all think? Who is going to win it? Most will say Troy Smith I'm guess, but I doubt he wins it either. Most likely Slaton or Peterson, but my vote is definitely for the underdog Garrett Wolfe.

[Buckeye1647545503]

if the bucks go all the way Smith may win it. IF they fail people will turn on him

[BuckeyeGT]

ummm no one is expecting ginn to win. smith will win if we get past michigan. wolfe is a good rb but look at the teams he plays. granted he racked up 200 vs. osu, but this was osu's first game. wolfe really isnt even in the top 3.

[88lx5oh]

troy smith FTW

[HotCarl]

Is garrett wolfe the RB for Northern Illinois? i thought i saw a highlight on him on sportscenter, something like 356running yards in their last game, DAMN.

 

If OSU goes all the way, troy smith should win it. I think gonzalez is arguably a better receiver than Ginn anyway.

[Dr. Pomade]

Agreed, Ginn won't win it. He's not even on the Heisman radar even more. Even if he catches a bunch of TD passes, it will only bolster Smith's campaign, since, well, Smith will be the one throwing the TD passes. Also, while I'm thinking of it, what the hell happened to Ginn's returning skills? He seems content to catch a punt, walk forward three steps, pause, and then fall over. It's like someone said to him, "Ginn, listen, you need to focus more on getting up the field quickly," which he interpreted to mean, "Ginn, never take off running as fast as your 4.3X feet will take you to the left or the right and then try to make something happen by building up a bunch of momentum." Certainly, I'm sure the opposition has something to do with it (e.g., less kicking to him, more emphasis on coverage), but I can't help but wonder why he just looks so much different now on his returns.

 

Smith is the consensus front-runner for the Heisman. No, Verse, that's just not the opinion in the metro Columbus area, but across the entire nation. And why wouldn't he be? He's the star player on the No. 1 team in the nation that has, in their past seven games, only beaten these teams: Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, Penn State, and Iowa, all of whom were ranked at the time, and three of which (not counting ND in the Fiesta Bowl) were ON THE ROAD. Seriously, what more would you like Smith to do in order to assert himself for the Heisman? Here's the answer: "Uh, nothing - seems like he's doing enough for sure." If Smith continues to put up numbers like he has - lots of TDs, comparatively few INTs - and, more importantly, if OSU continues to win, then, IMO, the Heisman will be his.

 

Garrett Wolfe is a nice darkhorse choice. Unfortunately, he plays in a league that's perceived across the nation to be about as tough as the OCC here in the Columbus area. I mean, getting 353 rushing yards is great, but when it's against a team that's about as good as the Groveport Madison Cruisers, then, well, you can only give it so much weight. Remember when that running back out of Memphis ran for all those yards last year (or the year before that)? By numbers alone, he should have won, but didn't even get real consideration because of the conference he played in. So, no, Garrett Wolfe won't win, and he shouldn't.

 

Peterson is probably the biggest threat to Smith. He plays for OU and will play plenty of high profile games (e.g., against Texas next week). So, if he racks up big numbers, his candidacy will start to pick up a lot of steam quickly. Also, I think that an advantage that a running back has over a QB in a Heisman race is that a QB is much more likely to make high profile mistakes that will hurt their candidacy (e.g., throwing an INT) as opposed to a RB. So, over the rest of the season, it would seem like Peterson has a smoother road as opposed to Smith. So, if I'm rooting for Smith, then I'm constantly worrying about Peterson.

 

Brady's still in the mix, as much as I'd like him not to be and as much as he shouldn't be. Face it, he choked in the big games where he could have cemented his Heisman candidacy. Now, he's got a string of cup-cake games ahead on the way to a showdown with USC. The good for him: he'll get a billion passing yards and a half-billion TD passes in the next several games against the retards they'll play. The bad for him: he's playing a bunch of retards and everyone will keep bringing that up. Yet, I can't help but get the notion that, should he put up a bunch of stats in the next few games, the ND publicity train will start to pick up momentum and people will less and less care about them playing retards.

[Guest McDonald]

Hopefully Smith, but Brady may have a chance if he can lead his team the rest of the way out..

[caseyctsv]

I think it really is pretty simple...if OSU wins out Smith will win the Heisman. It will only get interesting if OSU loses. At least that is how I think it should play out. He has done everything he's needed to do so far to win the trophy.

[Guest Rane]

I've watched all the OSU games thanks to my girlfriend, and was only impressed once on a troy smith touchdown.

 

Seriously, if OSU wasn't ranked #1(Not that they have been playing like a #1 team) then I don't think troy smith is even close...There are way more explosive players in the league then him, way more. Is he putting up some kind of great numbers I am missing? How many passing yards has he been coming with? My idea of a heisman qb is no less then 300 yards and 3-5 TD's a game. Along with alot less struggling against weak defenses.

 

Maybe its the fact that no one else is really doing a great job so they just decided to give the #1 spot to the qb on the #1 team...But seriously I just looked on ESPN at Troy smiths stats vs Chad Henne.(I dont even think Henne is an above average QB)

 

Chad Henne

RAT 156.2 | YDS 963 | TD 10 (61.6 completion ratio- 4 INT)

Troy Smith

RAT 163.7 | YDS 1,070 | TD 12 (65.6 completion 20 rushing yards and 2 INT)

 

Big difference right? But Henne isn't even on the heisman list. I would say knock down Troy Smith and put up peterson, but peterson has like 20 less yards and 2 touchdowns more then Mike Hart, also not impressing me on a heisman scale.

 

Chris Leak (Completion 64.6 4INT)

RAT 174.1 | YDS 1,240 | TD 14

 

Brady Quinn (Completion 61.7 4 INT)

139.6 | YDS 1,402 | TD 13

 

Mario Manningham

REC 21 | YDS 452 | TD 7

 

Tedd Ginn Jr.

REC 23 | YDS 337 | TD 5

 

If you guys lose, Troy smith will probably be out of the top 5 heisman if you lose twice probably out of the top 10. The only reason I can see him at where he is at now is cause there ranked #1. Nevermind his whopping 20 rushing yards, My guess is that once the season progresses and these qb's end up with 1,000-1,500 yards more then Troy smith he wont even be a factor. How can you guys watch him play and call him a heisman canidate??

 

Seems like a GREAT year for college football if you like the big ten. Especially if your OSU or MICH fans. But at the same time it seems like the rest of the league is playing at a mediocre level.

 

Also, OSU plays just as many shitty teams as everyone else so don't tell me about brady quinn stat whoring against bad teams. The only difference is this. OSU will almost lose against these teams, either that or they will just squeak past untill the end and then score a couple touchdowns late in the game when the other team is getting desperate to make the score look decent. And Notre Dame will put up 50 points a half like usual. And look at the quality of teams you've played so far. OSU played Texas, who was good and penn state/iowa who are both alright teams. Notre Dame already played pennstate as well, they already played michigan, and Georgia tech.

[Dr. Pomade]

Also, OSU plays just as many shitty teams as everyone else so don't tell me about brady quinn stat whoring against bad teams. The only difference is this. OSU will almost lose against these teams, either that or they will just squeak past untill the end and then score a couple touchdowns late in the game when the other team is getting desperate to make the score look decent. And Notre Dame will put up 50 points a half like usual. And look at the quality of teams you've played so far. OSU played Texas, who was good and penn state/iowa who are both alright teams. Notre Dame already played pennstate as well, they already played michigan, and Georgia tech.

 

Put down the lighter and step away from the bong, Rane.

 

The extent to which Brady Quinn "stat whores" against shitty teams has absolutely nothing to do with any other team, Troy Smith, the atomic weight of potassium, or, in others words, anything else. So, if I predict that Quinn will "stat whore," then you can either agree or disagree, but trying to counter with the "fact" that OSU "plays just as many shitty teams" just doesn't make much sense.

 

It's also hard to take you seriously when you say thing like, "And look at the quality of teams you've played so far." Rane, OSU had probably one of, if not THE most, difficult September schedules in the county. Let me repeat this and put it in all bold so you see it: THEY PLAYED TEXAS AT TEXAS WHEN TEXAS WAS NUMBER FUCKING TWO IN THE NATION. Would you instead have preferred to see OSU play, oh, I don't know, the Dallas Cowboys when they made the trip to Texas? I mean, since Texas at Texas with the number two ranking wasn't "quality" enough for you.

 

Notre Dame has had a difficult schedule as well. Difference is, Notre Dame got manhandled by Michigan, barely got past Georgia Tech, and needed a gift-wrapped present from Michigan State in order to win. Ohio State has been much more dominant in their wins, and, here's the biggest difference, THEY HAVENT LOST.

[Guest Rane]

Hey, I agree with everything you said. And all I was saying was Notre dame played teams just as good so far, and quinn still has better stats.

 

Yes Notre Dame got an ass whooping by us, but were also a better team then Texas. Texas was ranked #2 based on last years success rather or not you wanna agree. And Michigan is a better team, especially when it comes to our DB's or Defense in general, wich is a big effect on those said passing stats.

 

And OSU is a better team then Notre Dame.

 

But Troy Smith is not a better QB Brady Quinn...

 

On a side note, I am high right now. So forgive me if its hard to make to much sense out of what I'm saying. But If I wasn't high, discussing this would be super boring. Especially on the over the hill version of myspace we like to call CR.

[Dr. Pomade]

Hey, I agree with everything you said. And all I was saying was Notre dame played teams just as good so far, and quinn still has better stats.

 

Yes Notre Dame got an ass whooping by us, but were also a better team then Texas. Texas was ranked #2 based on last years success rather or not you wanna agree. And Michigan is a better team, especially when it comes to our DB's or Defense in general, wich is a big effect on those said passing stats.

 

And OSU is a better team then Notre Dame.

 

But Troy Smith is not a better QB Brady Quinn...

 

Stats don't win Heismans - ask any RB or QB from the MAC or Conference USA or any other non-BCS conference that. So, just because Brady has better stats doesn't mean he's more deserving of the Heisman.

 

Michigan is right now playing better than just about everyone, with the exception of probably OSU. However, Michigan wasn't playing that well in week two - so, no, they weren't better than Texas when OSU played Texas. And, no, you don't get to discredit Texas or OSU - the rankings were credible and valid enough at the time when they played.

[Wease]

In my opinion, the Heisman is Troy Smith's to lose. Unless he starts tanking and OSU loses, he'll win it. However, I think it's a shame that Wolfe won't be considered. He's a great back, even though he plays in the MAC. I'd put the MAC up against any other conference out there, other than the obvious Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SEC, PAC 10, and Big East. Actually, there are more than a few teams in the Big East that MAC teams should beat. Wolfe's a guy that everyone won't think about until draft time and then he'll get taken by someone and become a very good back in the NFL... :nod:

[Guest Rane]

And they still are. Texas is one of those teams that will ALWAYS be good.

 

Lets put it this way and make everyone happy.

 

My personal opinion after watching these players over the last couple years.

 

Troy Smith- He was a stand out QB back when his rushing yards made up for his lack of passing yards. Now he doesn't run nearly as much, he makes good passes wich to me is more impressive then back when he used to get some good runs. He has improved greatly as a qb, but has given up on his double threat. If he was still running, and OSU played every game like OSU instead of losing intensity against weaker teams. Then they would look like true #1 team and Troy Smith would be sitting pretty at a safe #1 atop the heisman list. Shit, I think even if OSU had a GOOD running back that Troy Smith would be able to do alot more with the ball and OSU would be a way bigger threat then they are now. But the way he's playing now, along with the rest of OSU isn't going to win my heisman vote. (You guys know you have an issue with playing at the level of your opponents. Its a double edged sword, you play someone 1/2 as good as you and for some reason you come out playing 1/2 as good.)

 

Brady Quinn - Now on this side of the field, Notre dame doesn't have a top 10 defense. They don't have a GREAT RB, and they don't have GREAT WR's. Troy Smith has Tedd Ginn, and gonzalez to throw to. Quinn has #83 and #5 both good players but they dont have a chance to score on everyplay. And they cant just run a streak and catch a pass 20 yards past the closest defender. He carries this team, and he makes his good players look like great players. I wouldn't be suprised if he does more play calling then the coach. If they didn't lose to michigan he would be #1 on all the list. And everyone would be looking at Notre Dame vs OSU.

 

Mike Hart - If our coach stuck with 1 running back, and didn't let grady score all the TD's he'd be higher up on the list. I feel like if michigan wins out and he keeps getting over 100 yards a game he should be the highest ranked running back on the list. Then again, he also seems not to always play as hard against weak opponents.

 

Adrian Peterson - He was better as a freshman.

 

Tedd Ginn - Get this guy off the heisman the list. The ability to run fast obviously doesn't make you a great football player. And for every TD he has on a punt return or kick return he's probably fumbled twice. In order for him to win a heisman he needs to become a better reciever instead of only scoring when he can outrun the coverage. He would also need to start scoring atleast once a game on special teams, and possibly play both sides of the ball. Lets face it WR's don't win heisman unless there also a DB and for him to be in consideration just because hes super fast is stupid.

 

Mario Manningham - Ok, So what the fuck. This guys dropped like 2 passes all year and scored on almost every other pass thrown his way. Its not his fault we have Breaston on kick/punt return but if your not gonna take off tedd ginn atleast put this guy on there somewhere. But he still shouldn't win unless he goes to DB and PR/KR

 

I haven't watched every second of ND football but the balls I've seen Quinn throw that got intercepted weren't his fault. He hit his reciever in the hands, they bobble it and it ends up getting picked. Not that its fair to take this into consideration for the heisman race. But was just wondering...

[OSUGT]

list. Shit, I think even if OSU had a GOOD running back that Troy Smith would be able to do alot more with the ball and OSU would be a way bigger threat then they are now. But the way he's playing now, along with the rest of OSU isn't going to win my heisman vote. (You guys know you have an issue with playing at the level of your opponents. Its a double edged sword, you play someone 1/2 as good as you and for some reason you come out playing 1/2 as good.)

 

...

 

 

Are you serious?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=160722

 

6 yards a pop and a 1 td a game avg. Yeah, he sucks...

 

We thump Iowa by 21 (Should have been 28) in THEIR back yard, and Mich puts togeter a 2 TD snooze fest win over Minn? I think it's human nature not to get amped up over some crap team.

 

Mich avg margin of victory = 19

OSU avg margin of victory = 23

 

 

Back on topic.

 

Smith wins the Heisman. Brady goes #1 in the draft.

[Rally Red Evo]

This is very simple OSU wins out Smith wins the Heisman.

[Ramsey]

Troy Smith - Gets rattled, sacked, throws a int. has a couple dropped passes, and still throws a rope across his body under pressure late in the game! Smith can win, and stay in control.

 

Ginn - gets double coverage and is going to make gonzo look like a god or hall you choose. Ginn does need to keep both hands on the ball.

 

Quinn - gets knocked down and never gets back up, he gets frustrated and can lose a game for the irish, luckily they were losing to a bad team, that would next week lose to a very bad Illinois team, (who had their 1st big ten win in 2 years) and the Irish’s shaky def. comes out and gets a couple of ints for the win.

 

As for anybody from michigan, who have they played? Thanks, come again.

 

Anybody from the overrated big 12 has stats because they play nobody and I mean nobody.

 

The big east team will lose to each other and all drop from conversation.

 

Auburn has to tough of a schedule, Arkansas /Florida/ bama / Georgia they may not be losses but will be tough games.

 

And Florida could have the hardest with gamecocks / lsu / auburn/ georgia/ Florida st.

 

We (osu) have a schedule that has a total difficulty that was tough and we have won the worst of it. Also, we close and we can’t be stopped!

 

My .02

[verse]

As for anybody from michigan, who have they played? Thanks, come again.

 

Serious?

 

Notre Dame, who was in the top ten before Michigan knocked them out.

 

Wisconsin, Big 10 football, who are 4-1.

[OSUGT]

Serious?

 

Notre Dame, who was in the top ten before Michigan knocked them out.

 

Wisconsin, Big 10 football, who are 4-1.

 

 

LOL

 

If you were a public defender, your client just got life in prison!

[Ramsey]

Serious?

 

Notre Dame, who was in the top ten before Michigan knocked them out.

 

Wisconsin, Big 10 football, who are 4-1.

 

Notre Dame - Overrated preseason, barley beat a unranked (as of then) gt, beat a bad penn state, smoked by michigan, was givin the win by mich st, and beat purdue at home.

 

with that said, Michigan beat a very overrated nd, they beat vandy/nd/cental mich/and wisconsin (whos toughest game was against a 2-2 indiana)/ and a 2-3 minn.

[mrblunt]

I dont know how much you guys watch the big east but if Rodriguez would play Slayton more than just the first half he would be a serious threat imo. He had a very impressive game against Georgia in their bowl game with 3 break away td's in the first half (maybe even first quarter, i know they went up on Georgia stupid fast before sitting on their hands and almost getting beat) and has rushed for 200 yards and multiple td's nearly every game this year. Their only downfall is the weak ass big east. They are an explosive team offensively though and that guy is a stud. I'm not a big fan of Wvu but i've seen a lot of his play and hes the most impressive D-1 RB imo.

 

Second big threat imo is Chris Leak. Florida is playing argueably the hardest schedule in NCAA history and if he continues to play well and puts up some big numbers against these big teams then he could also be considered a front runner. If they do win out I think they'll get a number 1 ranking, they have a much harder schedule than we do.

 

I wish we'd run some option plays a little more. Smith did so much damage last year w/ his feet and as much as I like this pocket passer (which hes done VERY well with this year) hes become, I like the dynamic of a dual threat a little more. Drew Stanton really had ND on the run in the first 3 quarters of that game, moving the ball well in the air and on the ground. I sometimes wish we played more like the old FSU or Miami teams where no matter who you played you ran the score up as much as possible. Tressle ball gives me high blood pressure too often

[Guest 78novaman]

Smith should get the Heisman if he keeps his cool and we don't loose a game. He had no interceptions on the season until last week playing away at a top 15 ranked team.

 

Quinn is over-rated and it's showed in how childish he can act when things aren't going his way. I will give him credit, however, for standing up and refusing to loose to Michigan St.

 

 

Why should Smith have more than 20 yards rushing? We have 3 excellent recievers that can get open in Ginn, Gonzo, & Hall. He shouldn't be running quarterback draw plays when we have Pitman who is getting fast as hell around the corner, and the surprise of the year Chris Wells, who ran for 75 yards against Iowa as the 2ND STRING runningback It would be an act of stupidity to rush on purpose and get injured, ending his run for the Heisman.

[OSUGT]

Smith should get the Heisman if he keeps his cool and we don't loose a game. He had no interceptions on the season until last week playing away at a top 15 ranked team.

 

Quinn is over-rated and it's showed in how childish he can act when things aren't going his way. I will give him credit, however, for standing up and refusing to loose to Michigan St.

 

 

Why should Smith have more than 20 yards rushing? We have 3 excellent recievers that can get open in Ginn, Gonzo, & Hall. He shouldn't be running quarterback draw plays when we have Pitman who is getting fast as hell around the corner, and the surprise of the year Chris Wells, who ran for 75 yards against Iowa as the 2ND STRING runningback It would be an act of stupidity to rush on purpose and get injured, ending his run for the Heisman.

 

 

I agree with everything you just said...EXCEPT. Chris Wells was not a secret:) He was hurting kids at the Spring Game, and CRUSHING kids last year in HS. Their was even talk about him taking Pittman's spot in the rotation. He'll be a lot of fun to watch if he keeps his head on straight.

[Dr. Pomade]

Second big threat imo is Chris Leak. Florida is playing argueably the hardest schedule in NCAA history and if he continues to play well and puts up some big numbers against these big teams then he could also be considered a front runner. If they do win out I think they'll get a number 1 ranking, they have a much harder schedule than we do.

 

Great points - and I agree completely. Leak was someone I missed but shouldn't have in my earlier posts. And I'm totally with you with respect to their strength of schedule - should they get through it unscathed, I'm not sure how you'd argue for them to NOT be number one.

[LJ]

You need to not talk about football if you have Mario Manningham on a Hesiman list and not Calvin Johnson or Dewayne Jarrett, both of whom are better receivers than Manningham