ohioko4s4 Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Someone needs to put a stop to the incompetence coming from this shop. Accelerated Performance received a newly built 2JZ a few weeks ago from a local Columbus customer suspecting something might be wrong. So during his off hours, Don did this guy a favor and inspected the build. In all his years, Don said he had never seen work like this before. He found: * Piston bore .001 too big * Mains .0002 UNDER the factory low side limit * Rods .0003 UNDER the factory low side limit * The billet mains were ground with what looked like a belt sander leaving no crush for the main cap * Wrong wrist pins * Wrong bearings * Dirt throughout the bearings * Crooked thrust bearing The thrust bearing would have fucked the motor within minutes...all the other rookie mistakes would have at least let the motor run until it hit the dyno for the break-in In all seriousness, this is complete bullshit. I admit I used to laugh at the stuff I heard going on with their customers over the years, but this latest fuck up pissed me off. The guy works his ass off for the little money he earns to build his dream car and it's now going to probably cost him $1500 to re-machine everything....assuming Don can even fix the caps. Shame on you IPS for fucking this kid over. Stick to installing exhausts and the occasional BBK. You have no business touching a motor, let alone building one. And don't blame the machine shop. Don triple checks everything at the machine shop before he assembles. The customer came to you and you are responsible for assuring it's done right. IPS - refunding his money would be a start to fixing this mess. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 i'm on page one, fuckers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 well, this will be a good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trjackson Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I agree, refund or fix it for free! I made first page! Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 * Piston bore .001 too big i dont see this being a HUGE problem unless the rings arent filling the bore. As long as the rings fill the bore and have the correct gap, i think thats about the maximum acceptable error you could have. * Mains .0002 UNDER the factory low side limit * Rods .0003 UNDER the factory low side limit im no machinist, but i think that the maximum acceptable limit for error on mains and rods for most engines is .0005. Thats about 1/3 the width of a human hair... * The billet mains were ground with what looked like a belt sander leaving no crush for the main cap * Wrong wrist pins * Wrong bearings * Dirt throughout the bearings * Crooked thrust bearing This is stuff that you should NEVER see. If accurate, there is no excuse... especially dirt inside the rotating assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 This belongs in Consumer Reports, Jamie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yes Page One! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 This belongs in Consumer Reports, Jamie. while i agree with that, my gut tells me it wont be long for the kitchen, given the parties involved. guess well see if the ips guys have learned anything recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Flyer1647545514 Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Oh, page one. Just cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohioko4s4 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 i dont see this being a HUGE problem unless the rings arent filling the bore. As long as the rings fill the bore and have the correct gap, i think thats about the maximum acceptable error you could have. Well for one the piston was coated, so in addition to being noisy, it would lead to some pretty bad skirt scuffing. But you're right, this particular issue would not have led to catastrophic failure. It's just sloppy work. im no machinist, but i think that the maximum acceptable limit for error on mains and rods for most engines is .0005. Thats about 1/3 the width of a human hair.... The issue here was they were way too tight for the power this motor would have made....in fact I doubt they did anything at all to clearance the bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohioko4s4 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 This belongs in Consumer Reports, Jamie. Ok, fair enough. You can move it if you like. I'm going to bed and will try to respond to questions in the am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin R. Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Here for the entertainment. Although I see little response in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Well for one the piston was coated, so in addition to being noisy, it would lead to some pretty bad skirt scuffing. But you're right, this particular issue would not have led to catastrophic failure. It's just sloppy work. The issue here was they were way too tight for the power this motor would have made....in fact I doubt they did anything at all to clearance the bearings. By tight, do you mean in radius, or in pressure of metal on metal? Either way, im not on the same page so my answer is probably of no use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hmmm, my prediction is this will be at least 1 page long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 By tight, do you mean in radius, or in pressure of metal on metal? Either way, im not on the same page so my answer is probably of no use. dude, we're all still on page 1, duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 we never touched that motor in any way. If IPS accepted money, they should stand behind the work. It doesn't matter who touched it, what matters is that all parties involved are satisfied. I'm sure that if Fowler's shop did poor work then IPS could refund their customers money or purchase a built engine and then ask for a return of the machining charges from Fowler. There is no need for anyone else on this forum to know what goes on behind the scenes. Job is fucked up? Sorry, we'll make it right (within reason). This is very basic customer service. That said, I hope all parties involved end up satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 If IPS accepted money, they should stand behind the work. It doesn't matter who touched it, what matters is that all parties involved are satisfied. I'm sure that if Fowler's shop did poor work then IPS could refund their customers money or purchase a built engine and then ask for a return of the machining charges from Fowler. There is no need for anyone else on this forum to know what goes on behind the scenes. Job is fucked up? Sorry, we'll make it right (within reason). This is very basic customer service. That said, I hope all parties involved end up satisfied. Apologize .....yes. Willingly sit back while your name is dragged through the mud.... no. I say own it, but tell the entire story to save some credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 why not let the original customer and shop handle this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 why not let the original customer and shop handle this? Because this is CR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Apologize .....yes. Willingly sit back while your name is dragged through the mud.... no If they willingly let an engine go through their shop that wasn't right, then the customer has every right to complain, though preferably to IPS in person first to give them a chance to make things right if it was truly a mistake. As a consumer, I would like to know about any and all issues that customers have at businesses that I may patronize. I would also like to see how the business responds to unsatisfied customers. It is not difficult to determine by reading both sides if I want to do business at that establishment or not. Case in point, read the thread about Rolla. It is obvious that Rolla operates in an unquestionable manner. Professionalism and tact are sometimes just as necessary as competence in your business. If you lack one, you must have the other to stay afloat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 check your caca, this post wasnt created by the customer... it sounds like someone who has motive against IPS, of course they are going to do anything to slam them... for all we know IPS did not have the chance to make things right before the other shop tore into the motor.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 If IPS accepted money, they should stand behind the work. It doesn't matter who touched it, what matters is that all parties involved are satisfied. I'm sure that if Fowler's shop did poor work then IPS could refund their customers money or purchase a built engine and then ask for a return of the machining charges from Fowler. There is no need for anyone else on this forum to know what goes on behind the scenes. Job is fucked up? Sorry, we'll make it right (within reason). This is very basic customer service. That said, I hope all parties involved end up satisfied. Eli, I understand this, and unfortunatly Jamie has made us aware of this before the customer, once we hear the issue from our customer who spent their hard earned money we will resolve that then; its hard to solve a problem you did not realize was a problem. We are very good people to work with, and I am certain that the owner of this motor will take any issue he has up with us. Jamie has a point, we do look over motors, you would be ignorant not to as a performance shop. But this was a tricky situation on this motor, as we never had a chance to literally unwrap it. The day we picked the motor up from the machine shop, was the day the customers father came in to take it home till his son gets back over the holidays. The customer sent us used parts off a forum not knowing their condition, neither did we; the parts arrived, and we sent them to the machine shop, and the waiting game began. He then decieded to go a differnt direction with the cars build up due to choosing a differnt engine managment system unrealted to the motor (he is serving in Iraq right now and I hope like all other service men he is well as I have not heard from him in a month now). He spoke very highly of us through the whole process of the motor build, and we told him exaclty everything he every asked, he was happy with who was going to be doing the machine work, as were we. Unfortunatly it seems from Jamie's post we may have some issues to work out. IPS does, and has always taken responsibility for our customers issues an complaints, this time will be no different. There is always a twist to a story when you want it to be percieved a certain way, this is why we have lawers an a judical system, an it seems Jamie is the unassigned prosecutor. I see no need like Brian said, to drag any names through the mud, but some feel the need, thats politics; you have to play the game Hillary says. Interesting though once the truth comes out IE Greg powers then people stop crying wolf. This is all the more IPS will delve into the topic. -Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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