Help identify this gun

[92lx50]

Sometimes it's really hard to tell.

 

A lot of those surplus guns sold dirt cheap mail order in the 50's and 60's. Even kids bought them. They've been sporterized and altered every way known to man.

[HAOLE]

I have a 7.62x39 round here. Whatever this gun takes, is just slightly narrower but much, much longer. Almost twice as long.

 

Rick- the shape at the end of the bolt looks very similar to the picture you posted:

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/pictures/japanese/mum.gif

 

If its Japanese, I think its older than WWII.

 

http://www.surplusrifle.com/arisaka/graphics/s/mum.jpg

That picture means it belongs to the Emperor of Japan. It is most likely pre WII Jap. They produced some real junk. The barrels had a tendency of splitting under higher pressures. I would not shoot it! If you do decide to DO NOT use modern factory ammo, the pressure in the chamber pressure of modern ammo may be to much for the gun

[HAOLE]

Huh?

http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/products/C000646.jpg

[HAOLE]

Take some steel wool and gently clean off the receiver you may find other markings

[Orion]

ben, get some more pictures up. specifically of the barrel. the thing that struck me was that the barrel looks to extend out past the stock, kind of like the old m2 carbine.

 

perhaps an enfield .303 battle rifle?

 

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2457/enfield3034500ew.jpg

 

 

dont know, want to see more pics.

[Casper]

ben, get some more pictures up. specifically of the barrel. the thing that struck me was that the barrel looks to extend out past the stock, kind of like the old m2 carbine.

 

perhaps an enfield .303 battle rifle?

 

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2457/enfield3034500ew.jpg

 

 

dont know, want to see more pics.

 

Oh damn, I think that might be it. I'll definitely get more pics up. Or shit DJ, you're close enough you could come check out the gun and the new house!

[dragknee66]

I have a 7.62x39 round here. Whatever this gun takes, is just slightly narrower but much, much longer. Almost twice as long.

 

Rick- the shape at the end of the bolt looks very similar to the picture you posted:

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/pictures/japanese/mum.gif

 

If its Japanese, I think its older than WWII.

 

 

Looks japanese to me yes. Ive seen that symbol on MANY jap rifles.. my grandpa had literally hundreds of them in his collection. That could be worth something if its cleaned up a bit.

[Scotty2Hotty]

http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/products/C000646.jpg

Sorry early morning, I thought you said past the stock, which I think of stock on rifles going from butt to barrel. My bad, I love the .303 Jungle Carbine BTW- AKA the smaller version

[smokin5s]

this is making me want to clean up my rifles and shoot them.

[Orion]

i think i got it, ben. try this.

 

enfield number 5 (jungle carbine)

 

http://burnfan0.tripod.com/id22.html

[Dave1647545494]

its not an enfield they have a 10 shot removable mag.....

 

the magazine for ben's rifle is inside the stock or it is a single shot

 

I'll do some checking it looks like a japanese rifle from the early 1900's try this site and see if any of the characters on your gun match the arsenal marks use some metal polish and clean all the rust off so you can see better

 

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html

[Dave1647545494]

its a jap model 38 carbine 6.5mm you can still buy ammo for it surplus

[HAOLE]

its a jap model 38 carbine 6.5mm you can still buy ammo for it surplus

I agree.

[Dave1647545494]

hey ben if you want drop it by and I can check it out and clean it up for you

 

my mauser was in about that shape when I found it

[Jelloman4571647545499]

Ben i asked some friends on another forum. You shall know shortly about that rifle.

[dragknee66]

Im telling you its a jap rifle. Ive seen thousands of the damn things!

[Jelloman4571647545499]

Japanese Arisaka

 

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Pictures/ari_0047.JPG

[Science Abuse]

Clark: The format is the same, but your rifle is missing the sight, and the rear lock for the bolt isn't as big as Bens gun. Your Jap rifle also has a makers seal, and a date code on it. Bens has no apparent markings of quality control, and it has no makers mark. This says:

-No one was proud of making it, it was mass produced cheaply.

-It pre-dates the QC methods of post-WW2 America...or its a real crappy rifle, and the above rule applies.

 

I know I'm not known as a gun guy, but I did allot of nerding out when I got my Grandpas rifle and was able to track it down. I read allot in the process. I had the same issue, an old bolt action rifle with very little markings on it.

 

Also, humbly, I have a good eye, and those jap rifles you guys posted are different than Bens rifle. Same archetype, but the details are completely off.

[GonneVille]

Looks like a "last-ditch" type 38 Arisaka to me, but the early sight is odd. The "last ditch" rifles are some of the worst rifles ever made, ABSOLUTELY under NO circumstances should you fire this rifle, reduced pressure charges aren't safe either.

 

Basically, in 1945 the Japanese government KNEW that sooner or later, America would have to invade the Home Islands to end the war. Their principal arsenals were high on the target list, so they dispersed their armament manufacturers. Basically, if you had a shop with any metal working tools, you got put to work making rifles, pistols, or machine guns. You can imagine the results when people who have never even held, let alone USED a rifle, suddenly have to MAKE one. Substandard steel, hand-filing instead of machining, tolerances along the lines of "Eh, looks close, toss it in the crate!"....

[Jelloman4571647545499]

Clark: The format is the same, but your rifle is missing the sight, and the rear lock for the bolt isn't as big as Bens gun. Your Jap rifle also has a makers seal, and a date code on it. Bens has no apparent markings of quality control, and it has no makers mark. This says:

-No one was proud of making it, it was mass produced cheaply.

-It pre-dates the QC methods of post-WW2 America...or its a real crappy rifle, and the above rule applies.

 

I know I'm not known as a gun guy, but I did allot of nerding out when I got my Grandpas rifle and was able to track it down. I read allot in the process. I had the same issue, an old bolt action rifle with very little markings on it.

 

Also, humbly, I have a good eye, and those jap rifles you guys posted are different than Bens rifle. Same archetype, but the details are completely off.

 

The rifle appears to be an arisaka Type 38, normally issued in 6.5 Japannese, it appears to have been semi sporterized. they usually are good shooters but ammo is kinda pricy at least for Norma. good find .

just my thoughts the giveaway as to type is the tall reciever piece just behind the bolt handle . the mum on top actually a crysthanimum(spelling?)is sometimes ground off usually meaning the rifle was surrendered, whereas if intact it was captured, as stated the caliber should be 6.5X52mm japanese. There are slots on both sides of the receiver that the dust cover would have been. The bolt handle looks to be like an Arasaka but slightly bent downwards, where as they are normally straight like a Mosin Nagant rifle.

[Clifford Automotive]

Bringing this back up. Ben I asked what you were doing today because of this.

 

The gun is a 1938 Arisaka Type 38 6.5 Cal. 5 Round

 

Its not a "last-ditch" like said. And its not a carbine. Its a long rifle. If the end of the bolt has the pattern like you stated then its an earlier design. I showed Dale the 4 original pictures that you had up and he knew right off. The gun was manufactured by Pietro Beretta Firm in Italy for the Japs. Gun should measure 49.75 inches. The Arisaka Type 38 rifle was influenced by Mauser design. There were more then 3 million produced. He said you could get a couple hundred out of it tops. If the gun still had the whachamacallit on the action he said you could get about 3 grand out of it.

 

I am meeting Dale to go to the gun show at Westland on the 30th if you want to go. He knows practically everyone there so we can get the hook up.