copperhead Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I got to ride in this car around Christmas, it completely surprised me. I'm glad to see things are progressing. This is what, engine #4 now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 I've lost count. At least they were cheap to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 I don't think the power is going to be an issue once in boost. From my experience modeling with ricardo and fluidworks, having above ambient pressure behind the intake valve really makes any sort of wave length tuning trival, not to say it won't benefit, but the gains would be small. Here's a dyno of my friend's 2.3L EVOIII 16G AWD Eagle Talon in which you can compare the effect of different intake runner length's on power output. The manifold was set on the short runners for the "Test Run" and the long runners for the "Base Run." http://www.msprotege.com/members/Mallard/Pics/Dyno_Chart1.jpg I don't have anything comparing plenum volumes though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Phil you homo!!! You give me this test and no information!!! That's like calling me to tell me you just had sex with Eva Mendes and gave no details!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Actually, that dyno alone demonstrates the effect of runner length quite well. Matches up nearly perfectly to the theoretical case. The shorter the runner, the further out peak power is, and volumetric efficiency decreases at low engine speed but is increased and drops off slower at higher speed. also, to phil, plenum size/shape effect are different from that of runner length. A larger plenum would tend to lift the curve at all rpm, and would mimic the shame shape of the curve typically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Actually, that dyno alone demonstrates the effect of runner length quite well. Matches up nearly perfectly to the theoretical case. The shorter the runner, the further out peak power is, and volumetric efficiency decreases at low engine speed but is increased and drops off slower at higher speed. also, to phil, plenum size/shape effect are different from that of runner length. A larger plenum would tend to lift the curve at all rpm, and would mimic the shame shape of the curve typically. It would be nice to know what we are comparing...10in vs 20, 10 vs 30..etc. For a torque peak of 3100 that is some serious length.... I don't look at something without knowing the whole story, were both tunes optimized? Were both in STP/SAE corrected? Were the runners designed in a fashion that the delta P between them were consistant (maybe there were packaging reasons?) There's alot of variables in these tests -- as you very well know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 It would be nice to know what we are comparing...10in vs 20, 10 vs 30..etc. For a torque peak of 3100 that is some serious length.... I don't look at something without knowing the whole story, were both tunes optimized? Were both in STP/SAE corrected? Were the runners designed in a fashion that the delta P between them were consistant (maybe there were packaging reasons?) There's alot of variables in these tests -- as you very well know. They are both on the same scale, but I'm not sure it it's SAE or corrected. My guess is it's not corrected since my friend doesn't like dyno corrections. The intake manifold is a JDM Cyclone part. I don't know any more than that but I found this on DSM Talk: There are two runners for each intake port on the Cyclone intake. The cross-sectional area for each seperate runner is the same. What differs is that one of them is quite a bit longer than the other. This long one is that one that is constantly open, and it provides the proper velocity to give you the extra umph in the low-end. Once a certain point is reached the vacuum canister forces the controller for the butterflies to open the butterflies, at which BOTH (not one like some people believe) runners are now open. The combined cross-sectional area of the two runners is the same as the cross-sectional area of the runner on a 1G intake. The difference in length of the runners is where the top end power isn't as great as it could be but the two intakes have been flow tested before and the Cyclone intake flowed a few (I think 3) CFM less than the 1G. Nothing was changed between dyno runs other than the butterflies on the manifold. He was looking for what RPM the torque curves would cross, then he wired a solenoid to actuate the butterflies off of a programmable shift light. Juiced - I know plenum volume and runner length are completely different. I was contesting Nate's comment that wave length tuning is trivial for a boosted application. I have no test data for plenum volume though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 More stuff. I got my vacuum block from McMaster because the Golden Eagle ones didn't have enough ports. I still need to weld a flange to the intake for the blow-off valve so if anyone has a Turbo XS RFL flange to sell... Aside from hooking up the other vacuum lines, I need to add fluids, clamp on the coolant hoses, put the axles back in, either relocate the battery or get one of those small dry cell ones, and pray... I think that's it. http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-16-08/00001.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-16-08/00002.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-16-08/00003.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-16-08/00004.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-16-08/00005.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Rock On Tristan, very clean. BTW - David & Phil are correct. I realized I've only modeled with the room that's available to my application (4" or so). I revise my comment to FI motors are less sensitive to wave tuning, but not omitted from their affects on performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Aside from hooking up the TPS, plugging the other vacuum port, and re-locating the battery, the car is ready for failure. I got the rest of the vacuum lines hooked up, made a coolant hose, and Home Depot'd my BOV flange. Because I am cheap, instead of trying to find and paying for a flange, I ended up finding this piece of pipe in the electrical section at Home Depot that was just barely too big. I put together my own lathe and took a flap wheel to the pipe so it would evenly sand away at the material to make it a tight fit. I even got my head bolts at Home Depot. http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-17-08/00004.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-17-08/00002.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-17-08/00005.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-17-08/00006.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-17-08/00007.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-17-08/00008.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/4-17-08/00009.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rally Pat Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Every good home build is powered by Home Depot Racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Kaaaaaboom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsn2o281 Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Kaaaaaboom as in it blew up? If so that sucks dude, i was following along waiting to see what it would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Well it started last night on my 2nd attempt. The first cranking was to prime the oil system. It started right up when I cranked it over with fuel. My coilovers should be in tomorrow so hopefully this weekend I'll be able to get out and start driving. These cams are pretty crazy too, but somehow it idles at 17:1. Can anyone give a cheap alignment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rally Pat Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 cant wait to see it Tristan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Kaaaaaboom as in it blew up? If so that sucks dude, i was following along waiting to see what it would do. Nope. It runs good. I figured that would be the outcome though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 In my first attempt to start it I decided to record a video to capture any epic failure. Unfortunately, the failure happened after the video. Anyway, un-edited and un-entertaining... http://thumbs.streetfire.net/7e215628-3ce2-4c54-a321-9a8c0003914d.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Every good home build is powered by Lowe's Racing Fixed. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonkiller Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Your downpipe is touching your coolant line, Heat wrap to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted May 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 That was the stock pre-formed hose. I replaced it with a flexible one so it isn't touching it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrblunt Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 You running MSnS or is it just controlling fuel? Neat setup, we'll have to head out on Beatty Rd someone and give it a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted May 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 MsnsE for now until the engine is broken in. I'm going to use my original fuel and spark maps and once it's broken in I have my MS2 processor sitting right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted May 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 More toys and more progress. I received my Agility coilovers today so not more cheap-ass $80 eBay suspension. I also welded up a battery tray out of scrap steel laying around. It might not be pretty outside the car, but for $20 including wire cost, works for me. http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/battery_relocate/00006.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/battery_relocate/00001.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/battery_relocate/00002.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/battery_relocate/00003.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/battery_relocate/00005.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/battery_relocate/00007.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/battery_relocate/00008.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.COS Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 Props for building this in a 1 car garage. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted May 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 I guess in spending $1000 on coilovers they cheaped out and put in weak studs in the strut mount. I tightened the nuts to stock spec, but when I loosened them 4 of the 6 studs snapped in half. I just used the studs from the my stock mounts that are thicker so that seemed to work. I took it out for the first time tonight and it was pretty fun. I was focused on tuning fuel only while I broke the engine is so I set the timing to a fixed 20*. The exhaust was popping pretty loud on decel, but I guess open downpipe will do that. I'm going to wire up the fans tonight, change the oil, and hit the freeway for some more tuning and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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