Buy a car, get a free gun

[Nate1647545505]

Let's play scenario for a second.

 

 

All the gun owners in America form a *gasp* 'organized malitia' against your great and powerful US military.

 

 

Who do you think will outnumber? Both in guns/ammo, and man power? I think you'd be surprised.

 

 

 

 

Don't think that can't happen? Perhaps you'll remember the Revolution. (That's part of your next assignment to relearn America's history)

 

None of my gun buddies have anything that could take on: modern artillery, modern air power, and modern tracked armor -- not say we couldn't be like the Iraq's and start building EFPs and fighting dirty.

[Science Abuse]

You focused on two things with your post. What Obama said about GUNS and RELIGION. So, of the two you chose to make a point about, I focused on the one of the TWO that matters to me.

 

Me reading the Constitution has nothing to do with what you are willing to give up.

I missed the part where he said he was going to take either away. You still get to bear your arms, even under the ol'ban you could do that.

 

"Our" military, mr. rebel, "our" military. I'd venture a guess that you could outnumber them 10:1 and still get annihilated, our army is more than numbers. 10:1 would be put to better use at the ballots.

 

Think you could choke down your frustration and condense and organize your thoughts into one post at a time?

 

I am willing to give up nothing. I've observed the people on your side of the fence shouting "hero" at a man who spearheaded legislation that directly took your rights away, claiming it was to protect you. The assault ban didn't go that far, it limited your purchasing power, it didn't rob you entirely of the right to own a gun. "Ohhh commie Clinton is takin' our guns, Hero Bush lets us keep'm all AND protects our helpless selves with the Patriot act."

My personal view is, you can own whatever you want, as long as you're stable enough to handle it responsibly. If you can't wait a week to buy a gun, you just may bee to impatient to own one. Having a previous record isn't the only indicator of a dangerous cunt.

 

P.S. Stop assuming I know nothing about the subject. My best friend of 18 years is an avid gun enthusiast and is very politically active. I've had real debates about this, and I learn from the other side.

[RangerTurbo]

None of my gun buddies have anything that could take on: modern artillery, modern air power, and modern tracked armor -- not say we couldn't be like the Iraq's and start building EFPs and fighting dirty.

 

I'd also be willing to bet that our Government wouldn't use such capable weapons on our own soil. We aren't Mother Russia, Germany, etc where we would destroy our own nation for the "good of the people".

 

Though, I wouldn't put it past them 100%.

 

Urban war fare would most likely be the scenario.

 

Also, fighting dirty was what won us our Freedom to begin with. Fighting in line, face to face like the British tried to do would have slaughtered us and we'd be speaking proper English right now.

 

 

I missed the part where he said he was going to take either away

You do understand Obama wants to abolish nation wide CCW yes? You do understand this is just 'another' step in the plan to ban all weapons yes? You see how this is just a different approach to the same plan? Their game is the same, their tactics have changed to help save face from their previous AWB which flopped horribly and their myriad of other attempts to put ban weapons.

 

 

I am willing to give up nothing.

and yet you've already asserted this:

I'd trade guns for free speach and fair trial in a second.

Tripping yourself up are we?

 

Trading one Right, for two other Rights, which are already guaranteed is illogical. Why should the thought of having to trade any Right, to achieve free speech and fair trial, even be a consideration? It's already our Right, why make compromise?

 

If it comes down to that, then you and the .gov have failed, both as a citizen willing to be a puppet, and as our great nation for allowing what we set forth to distance our self from.

 

P.S. Stop assuming I know nothing about the subject.

I'm waiting for something showing you do.

 

 

 

 

And, don't assume I support anything Bush has done. I can't stand the illiterate jack-ass as much as the next guy. I still think he was a better candidate than John Kerry however. As for Clinton, he *was* a good president. Like all presidents however he has his bad points too. He only passed the AWB, he had nothing much more to do with it than that. But, he gets the bad wrap for it much the same as every other president.

 

 

I don't let political party's decide for me. I don't follow either. I follow previous actions and history of the candidates. The fact, again, remains that Obama is not American, he supports nothing of National value. He is not a considerable candidate for office, 2A controversy or not.

[Science Abuse]

You do understand Obama wants to abolish nation wide CCW yes?

Sure, but you still get to own guns. Personally I don’t see the need to carry a concealed weapon of any kind, unless you’re planning on doing something sneaky with it. Carry your weapon, but keep it in sight. “Another step in a liberal conspiracy" is paranoia. History has shown the Right to be far more willing to change the constitution to meet it's wants than the left. Besides, I think we’re seeing the left adapt its gun-views for the future to better suit the wants of the nation. They’re realizing that people who want to vote for them aren’t, and it’s because of this and Abortion.

 

and yet you've already asserted this:

Fortunately, it's not going to come up so long as we don't permit our leaders to pass "patriot act" fascism.

 

I'm waiting for something showing you do.

I'm waiting for something to debate. All you spew is paranoia and partisan h8ership. Waste of time.

 

I still think he was a better candidate than John Kerry however.

And that is all he was, a candidate. He was campaigning 24/7, he was not a president and his record showed that. Everything that is coming out now that makes you hate him was being discussed long ago, you and other Bush voters just didn't want to hear it. You put him there twice, based on propaganda that was fed to you. I have yet to find anyone able to come up with a solid logical argument for Bush > Kerry, outside of hardline Christian Pro-Lifers, to whom he pandered directly.

Funny thing about that is, he's fallen very short on what he'd promised the christian community, and has done jack-shit about abortion. What's the point of voting for some one who claims to share your views but has no power or desire to do anything about it?

Vote for some one who is able to do the job. As it pertains to this election, McCain is probably going to slaughter Obama in the general election, arguing about him is fruitless. My point is, being a Bush supporter (even if you're a 'former' bush supporter) shows that your judgment of a candidate can be flawed from time to time.

On the other hand, back during the election years, I took LOTS of heat and verbal assaults for what I had to say about Bush and the direction that he was going to take us, and it turned out to be almost prophetic. That stuff is probably still in the archives. lol

[Scotty2Hotty]

None of my gun buddies have anything that could take on: modern artillery, modern air power, and modern tracked armor -- not say we couldn't be like the Iraq's and start building EFPs and fighting dirty.

I really don't like EFP's. I've got buddies in the grave thanks to those evil creations. So far, that's about the only thing in the world that has almost completely destroyed M1A2 Abrams tanks. As for the CCW debate, I enjoy being able to have the ability to defend myself if I were in a bad position. Crime usually finds you, not the other way around. I like knowing that I am more than capable to take care of the situation how I see fit. You remember the SKS incident Eric, don't you tell me that guy didn't run like a bitch.

[cinergi]

... more later... ran into time constraints.

[RangerTurbo]

Sure, but you still get to own guns.

Reads as: Oh sure, take a little of my rights right now. It's not like you're taking them all away at once. So I can live with a little at a time. Come to think of it, if you do it slowly enough, I won't really notice, till all my rights are gone. Then I'll be fucked.

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I don’t see the need to carry a concealed weapon of any kind, unless you’re planning on doing something sneaky with it.

We kinda agree here. I open carry almost exclusively. I do CC when time/place/dress dictate it.

 

I hate to read all that liberal BS though about "if you're concealing it then all you have is bad intentions... guns are bad mmmkay.... only criminals have guns". Those types of comments go hand in hand with "guns are only for killing people" type of hysteria that all the gun grabbers love to puke out.

 

 

Besides, I think we’re seeing the left adapt its gun-views for the future to better suit the wants of the nation.

Wrong, what you are seeing is different tactics and that's it. They aren't as willing to go after guns anymore cause they know it's a losing situation to be in. Instead they are going after microstamping, ammo limitiations, ammo serialization, non magnetic ammo, non lead ammo, 'smart guns', etc etc. This way, when ammo prices rise through the fucking roof because of added shit to the manufacturing process people wont be able to afford it. End result equals their new "gun ban" via ammo proxy. It's simple. They aren't adapting anything but their scandalous ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm waiting for something to debate. All you spew is paranoia and partisan h8ership. Waste of time.

And all I've read from you is the book on Liberal standings. You've used every term and argument the anti's use. Come up with something on your own, not from the Media and someones political agenda.

 

Everything that is coming out now that makes you hate him was being discussed long ago, you and other Bush voters just didn't want to hear it. You put him there twice, based on propaganda that was fed to you.

I did not vote for Bush, once or twice.

 

 

 

 

What's the point of voting for some one who claims to share your views but has no power or desire to do anything about it?

Oh you mean like Obama and Clinton2 wanting to keep the 2A cause it supports HUNTERS and SPORTSTERS? Neither of them have the true meaning in mind, they are just trying to appease the fence sitters, then will, without whencing an eye, try to take that away.

 

 

 

 

Vote for some one who is able to do the job.

Quite hard to do given the past candidates and future ones. I think we can both agree?

[Science Abuse]

You're right, they're all out to get you. Busted.

 

Perhaps I'm rietterating the things you hear because the things you hear have merrit. Come up with something of my own? I'm not going to make stuff up just to make a case, an argument is only as good as it's foundation. Thus far, the foundation of your argument is that all the libs are gun-grabbing evil people. That's opinion, the shakiest of foundations.

 

"Guns are only for killing people" isn't hysteria at all. I'm not a gun-grabber, and I beleive that concealed weapons are for the sole purpose of killing people. Why? Because there are only 2 reasons for a gun to exist:

-Shooting targets

-Killing things

 

Last I checked, targets and deer don't run off when they see your gun. The only reason to conceal a gun is to keep people from seeing it. If you don't want people to see it, then it stands to reason that they are your quarry. Of course, you're nto after everybody, you're theoretically protecting yourself against bad people. Still, the gun is there to point at people.

 

The reason I don't like CCW is this; it allows people who are admittedly threatened by somethign to walk around with a very powerful weapon. A mistake made with a gun is extremely costly, and scared people make mistakes. Carry it on the outside where we can see it, and we can avoid you.

[Scotty2Hotty]

I haven't seen too many mistakes made with CCW owners. Most CCW owners are experienced or trained in one way, shape or form. CCW carriers are the responsible ones, not the crack dealer with the .25ACP raven in his waste band he picked up for a rock. I wouldn't consider most CCW folks to be scared or act irrationally when faced with a situation in which they must draw. There's a reason it's concealed, and of course laws against branishing your firearm. I'd say almost 100% of CCW owners would not pull unless truly threatened for their life, example gun drawn on you or your family. The sheer fact of someone drawing a firearm out usually will defuse a situation to be honest with you. The rack of a 12 gauge shotgun in the middle of the night, would deter most criminals. A firearm again is a tool, it doesn't breathe, it doesn't have thinking abilities, and it won't "accidently" go off. (We'll keep the M249 SAW out of this one)

The open carry thing is a funny thing. It's 100% legal to do so, but at the same time the law can always be interpreted against you. With me personally living in the country, and having used firearms against people, I love my right to protect myself. I'm not going to rely on a police department that is 10 minutes away. When confronted with a situation, you may have a whooping 5 seconds to react to the situation. 10 Minutes= death vs. 5 seconds = Me firing the first shot. The Castle bill will be passing according to a customer of mine who's wife works at the state house. And I'm extremely glad for this. You break into my house, you have no right to be there, and I will deal with you with the amount of force that is necessary. I have a bright enough surefire X200 under my Glock 23, that will blind you in the middle of the night. I used the same style surefires in Iraq, and that spared many Iraqi's lives from being ended.

 

Be honest with me, do you trust your life to a police department that is a couple minutes away, or would you trust your life in a firearm in your firm grasp to save you in those brief seconds you have?

Our old motto was, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[Science Abuse]

Be honest with me, do you trust your life to a police department that is a couple minutes away.

Nope. You're referring to situations in your own home, though (make sure the wall behind your target is thick enough to stop your shot. ).

You're also referring to essentially conventional weapons. You're just as able to protect your home with Mossberg as you are with a Klashnekoff.

 

On the street, if some one intends to kill you, you'll be killed. There's no point in holding you up or assaulting you if they can just as easily shot you in the back and roll you. In this case, conceal and carry wont ave you. Int he event that you're threatened by some one with a gun who's not sure about killing you, reaching for your gun is the quickest way to make his mind up. Why go to the trouble of being judged by 12 when you could just cancel your credit cards and get a new lisense? Shooting some one isn't worth the trouble 99% of the time.

Pertaining to uses of a live person that you later intend to kill (bigger problem for women), if they get close enough to touch you, they are vulnerable. Again it is a situation where attempting to pull a gun or knife will get you shot. Your time/money is better spent on a flack jacket and learning to use your hands.

[RangerTurbo]

[sarcasm]No, if someone was coming at me to attack me I would try to trip them up, or attempt to reason with them to not use their gun/knife on me[/sarcasm]

 

^^Indirect quote from THR which was posted from an anti newsletter.

 

 

"Guns are only for killing people" isn't hysteria at all. I'm not a gun-grabber, and I beleive that concealed weapons are for the sole purpose of killing people. Why? Because there are only 2 reasons for a gun to exist:

-Shooting targets

-Killing things

 

Last I checked, targets and deer don't run off when they see your gun. The only reason to conceal a gun is to keep people from seeing it. If you don't want people to see it, then it stands to reason that they are your quarry. Of course, you're nto after everybody, you're theoretically protecting yourself against bad people. Still, the gun is there to point at people.

 

The reason I don't like CCW is this; it allows people who are admittedly threatened by somethign to walk around with a very powerful weapon. A mistake made with a gun is extremely costly, and scared people make mistakes. Carry it on the outside where we can see it, and we can avoid you.

 

 

On the street, if some one intends to kill you, you'll be killed. There's no point in holding you up or assaulting you if they can just as easily shot you in the back and roll you. In this case, conceal and carry wont ave you. Int he event that you're threatened by some one with a gun who's not sure about killing you, reaching for your gun is the quickest way to make his mind up. Why go to the trouble of being judged by 12 when you could just cancel your credit cards and get a new lisense? Shooting some one isn't worth the trouble 99% of the time.

Pertaining to uses of a live person that you later intend to kill (bigger problem for women), if they get close enough to touch you, they are vulnerable. Again it is a situation where attempting to pull a gun or knife will get you shot. Your time/money is better spent on a flack jacket and learning to use your hands.

 

http://www.travel-destination-pictures.com/data/media/67/cute-sheep_1008.jpg

[Scotty2Hotty]

Nope. You're referring to situations in your own home, though (make sure the wall behind your target is thick enough to stop your shot. ).

That's why I spend extra $$$ on Federal Hydrashock 180 grains. Deep penetration, and great expanding aka mushrooming effect. Again, we could go tit for tat on both sides, I just personally enjoy the right to defend my life and those I care about. I'll try to find the hotel video, where the CCW carrier was able to draw and take down the theif, even after the fact, the theif was the first to branish his weapon.

[Nate1647545505]

Also, fighting dirty was what won us our Freedom to begin with. Fighting in line, face to face like the British tried to do would have slaughtered us and we'd be speaking proper English right now.

 

Dirty as in -- mixing civilians with gunmen, spinning the slaughter afterwords, etc.

[RangerTurbo]

Dirty as in -- mixing civilians with gunmen, spinning the slaughter afterwords, etc.

 

Gotcha.

 

 

 

 

"Guns are only for killing people" isn't hysteria at all. I'm not a gun-grabber, and I beleive that concealed weapons are for the sole purpose of killing people. Why? Because there are only 2 reasons for a gun to exist:

-Shooting targets

-Killing things

 

Now insert vehicles for guns/concealed weapons and look how silly that statement is.

 

"Vehicles are only for killing people" isn't hysteria at all. I'm not a vehicle-grabber, and I beleive that vehicles are for the sole purpose of killing people. Why? Because there are only 2 reasons for a vehicle to exist:

-Driving kids to soccer practice

-Killing things

 

 

There are more deaths a year from drunk drivers, road rage, drowsy driving, teenage drivers etc than there are from violence involving the use of a gun.

[RangerTurbo]

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/ruger/ruger_1022rb.jpg

Harmless squirel hunting and plinking gun. Ruger 10/22.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.buymilsurp.com/zencart/images/1022%20Fusion%20Rifle%20System

ZOMG!!!!11! An evil black rifle. Look at that black stock, pistol grip, telescoping stock and extra capacity magazine. That's a cop killing, child maiming weapon of mass destruction!

 

Better ban it cause it looks evil and will kill all the people in the streets.

 

 

It's the same damn gun.

 

 

See what type of hyped up bull shit you play into?

[RedRocket1647545505]

This space is reserved for one hell of an anti-bashing post. Please stand by.

[Tractor]

You all know I'm pretty right-wing. I agree with Eric's basic argument on CCW.

 

Here are my views

 

1) I want everyone to be able to have guns (I feel we should be able to have any gun peroid.)

 

2) I don't think we as a population even with guns could stop the US military from taking them from us. Some of you that disagree are the exact people that shouldn't have guns.

 

3) I see nearly no reason to hide a gun on average people walking the streets. The people who want that right and would use that right are the exact people I feel should definitely not have that right.

 

Stop and think about it for a minute those of you who want to carry a gun concealed either want

A) to be cool having a gun on you

B) for some reason believe that situations come up all the time where you need to have a weapon on you that an attacker can't see. In this case professional help should be sought and I don't feel these people could pass a mental evaluation on the subject.

 

Believe me I love guns, but wouldn't want 99% of you guys having a fire fight in front of me or my family in a walmart to settle your fantasy of protecting the public with your huge penis err sorry gun:-)

 

I believe more people than just some cops have "little man" syndrome.

 

Evan

[Science Abuse]

high five Evan.

Gotcha.

 

Now insert vehicles for guns/concealed weapons and look how silly that statement is.

 

"Vehicles are only for killing people" isn't hysteria at all. I'm not a vehicle-grabber, and I beleive that vehicles are for the sole purpose of killing people. Why? Because there are only 2 reasons for a vehicle to exist:

-Driving kids to soccer practice

-Killing things

 

 

There are more deaths a year from drunk drivers, road rage, drowsy driving, teenage drivers etc than there are from violence involving the use of a gun.

That is the most retarded spin ever spun. You're comparing a device that launches high speed projectiles to a vehicle that occasionally kills people in accidents. BTW, the AK47 has killed (been used to kill) more people in the history of the world than any one thing. More than all other guns, more than cars, more than nukes. Fact

 

 

Better ban it cause it looks evil and will kill all the people in the streets.

 

 

It's the same damn gun.

 

 

See what type of hyped up bull shit you play into?

Umm.... no, I don't see what I played into. Where the fuck did I say we should ban ricer guns with body kits? My daisy looks more "hard core" than that. You're making things up, I'm done with you.

[RangerTurbo]

You all know I'm pretty right-wing. I agree with Eric's basic argument on CCW.

 

Here are my views

 

1) I want everyone to be able to have guns (I feel we should be able to have any gun peroid.)

 

2) I don't think we as a population even with guns could stop the US military from taking them from us. Some of you that disagree are the exact people that shouldn't have guns.Please elaborate as to why? You think it's better to just let the Military roll you over instead of standing up for your Rights? Man up or bitch up is what it would come down to at that point.

 

3) I see nearly no reason to hide a gun on average people walking the streets. The people who want that right and would use that right are the exact people I feel should definitely not have that right.Maybe do some research on CCW. Open carry or conceal carry carries no difference when it comes to the point of why someone is carrying. I want the right to defend me and my wife if necessary. I open carry (made that clear earlier), yet you determine that if I were to CC (which I have a license to do) that my mindset automatically changes and I become some gun wielding maniac looking to shoot it out with anyone? That's illogical and stupid.

 

Stop and think about it for a minute those of you who want to carry a gun concealed either want

A) to be cool having a gun on youOr that we want a better form of protection incase an attacker carries more than a fist

B) for some reason believe that situations come up all the time where you need to have a weapon on you that an attacker can't see.Not all the time, but it takes one time, ONE time to make a difference. I'd rather be prepared for that one time than not be. In this case professional help should be sought and I don't feel these people could pass a mental evaluation on the subject.Because they want to CC? Maybe they just don't want the added attention that the media and .gov have so eloquently engrained into you and the rest of the anti's and uniformed public. That couldn't be a possibility?

 

Believe me I love guns, but wouldn't want 99% of you guys having a fire fight in front of me or my family in a walmart to settle your fantasy of protecting the public with your huge penis err sorry gun:-)Yah, because everytime I'm at Walmart a Mall-Ninja is having a stand off with some club wielding shop lifters. The media has influenced you well. CCW isn't about protecting the society as some sort of unlicensed cop, read up. It's about the Right and ability to protect yourself. You might as well have said "I like guns, and trust myself, but don't trust anyone else with one, so no one should have any" It's the typical anti-gun sound off.

 

I believe more people than just some cops have "little man" syndrome.

I believe more people are closet anti-gun media drones and won't admit it

 

Evan

 

\/

[RangerTurbo]

high five Evan.

 

That is the most retarded spin ever spun. You're comparing a device that launches high speed projectiles to a vehicle. BTW, the AK47 has killed (been used to kill) more people in the history of the world than any one thing. More than all other guns, more than cars, more than nukes. Fact

 

analogies are better than you appearently. Fact

 

Drunk driver at 100mph = high speed ~4000lb projectile.

 

 

Umm.... no, I don't see what I played into. Where the fuck did I say we should ban ricer guns with body kits? My daisy looks more "hard core" than that. You're making things up, I'm done with you.

 

you support all that, whether its weapon bans, AWB, hand gun bans, CCW bans, ammo bans etc etc based on your poor selection for Presidential candidate. You're avoiding the big picture. It's not just what has been discussed in this thread.

..

[Science Abuse]

You're so stupid, it's painful. Weapons are called weapons because they are tool we use to kill things. What exactly is the design intent behind a gun, penetrating paper targets? Guns kill more people world wide each year than the ocean, that is impressive. You, on the other hand, are pathetic. You hurt your cause more than you help it.

[RangerTurbo]

You're so stupid, it's painful. Weapons are called weapons because they are tool we use to kill things. What exactly is the design intent behind a gun, penetrating paper targets? Guns kill more people world wide each year than the ocean, that is impressive. You, on the other hand, are pathetic. You hurt your cause more than you help it.

 

 

Awwee, you're curling up into your anti-ball. Why you bowing out. Can't come up with anymore more than the anti, illogical, emotional garbage you've already spewed?

[cinergi]

high five Evan.

 

That is the most retarded spin ever spun. You're comparing a device that launches high speed projectiles to a vehicle that occasionally kills people in accidents. BTW, the AK47 has killed (been used to kill) more people in the history of the world than any one thing. More than all other guns, more than cars, more than nukes. Fact

 

 

Umm.... no, I don't see what I played into. Where the fuck did I say we should ban ricer guns with body kits? My daisy looks more "hard core" than that. You're making things up, I'm done with you.

 

 

FACT: AK47's have killed NO ONE. Humans behind AK47's have killed other humans. It can be argued that if humans didn't have AK47's or even other firearms, humans would have found other ways to kill other humans--fire, bombs, spears, whatever. Humans are stupid. Firearm-related suicide victims probably would have hung themselves or found other methods if they couldn't have eaten guns.

 

Here's a novel idea, let's ban stupid humans... Especially since Mr. Yuck stickers and wall socket/outlet covers have allowed such a lineage of retards to survive.

[Tractor]

If the gov did actually decide to take the guns you'd have no way to stop them. Just hide some and wait for the time to pass because your pathetic "insert the best gun you think you got" ain't gonna do jack when they want you stopped.

 

Now of course this is a very extreme situation that I doubt could happen. I mean what would it really take for the gov to decide they will send out the whole army to go door to door and forcibly take all guns and to kill anyone resisting them.

 

Furthermore you'd seriously get killed and possibly get your family killed for that right?

People have lived for thousands of years in and out of laws like these and people move on and civilizations rise and fall with time.

 

 

Hehe if your calling me an anti gun person then you really don't know my view. I feel we should be as equipped as any military. I'm the crazy fucker who doesn't care if a dog lives or dies remember?

 

Not a liberal bone in my body, but I still agree with Eric that open carry can accomplish nearly the same thing as concealed carry.

 

I do like the idea of knowing people could be concealing a firearm though. Makes it much less likely that some dumb ass will try and mug, or car jack me if the guy thinks I could have a gun.

 

In all seriousness again most of the people I know that could carry are not people I want carrying because they ain't to smart and most are hot heads that get themselves in trouble without guns plenty.

 

Evan

[Tractor]

Another point about the types that want to CC. My wife works as a manager at a 5/3 bank and she's had more than one person come into her bank and verbally attack her and attempt to argue with her about their "no weapons" sign on the door.

 

Usually that person starts out with "this is BS I wanna be able to bring my gun in here so I can protect you if someone robs the place." Holy shit is this person stuck in a wild west movie or what?

 

Its happened with 2 different people since the law when into effect and the signs when up. Those people I do not want having guns and she actually had to call the police to get one of the jerks to leave.

 

Evan