Buy a car, get a free gun

[Tractor]

FACT: AK47's have killed NO ONE. Humans behind AK47's have killed other humans. It can be argued that if humans didn't have AK47's or even other firearms, humans would have found other ways to kill other humans--fire, bombs, spears, whatever. Humans are stupid. Firearm-related suicide victims probably would have hung themselves or found other methods if they couldn't have eaten guns.

 

Here's a novel idea, let's ban stupid humans... Especially since Mr. Yuck stickers and wall socket/outlet covers have allowed such a lineage of retards to survive.

 

 

I agree here 100%

 

and btw TRIPLE POST:-)

 

Evan

[cinergi]

If the gov did actually decide to take the guns you'd have no way to stop them. Just hide some and wait for the time to pass because your pathetic "insert the best gun you think you got" ain't gonna do jack when they want you stopped.

 

Now of course this is a very extreme situation that I doubt could happen. I mean what would it really take for the gov to decide they will send out the whole army to go door to door and forcibly take all guns and to kill anyone resisting them.

 

Furthermore you'd seriously get killed and possibly get your family killed for that right?

People have lived for thousands of years in and out of laws like these and people move on and civilizations rise and fall with time.

 

Evan

 

I understand what you're saying, but I do not agree. Here's some statistics according to wikipedia:

 

"In 1995, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms estimated that the number of firearms available in the US was 223 million.[13] About 25% of the adults in the United States personally own a gun, the vast majority of them men.[14] And, about half of the adult U.S. population, lived in households with guns."

 

Now... If more than even half of the people that had access to guns resisted, there would be a major problem. The problem becomes when you don't have enough people with warrior complexs and you add in the pansies, or the people who piss themselves and lock up when they are under duress. I still think the ones who choose to resist would be on top of the hill.

[cinergi]

Another point about the types that want to CC. My wife works as a manager at a 5/3 bank and she's had more than one person come into her bank and verbally attack her and attempt to argue with her about their "no weapons" sign on the door.

 

Usually that person starts out with "this is BS I wanna be able to bring my gun in here so I can protect you if someone robs the place." Holy shit is this person stuck in a wild west movie or what?

 

Its happened with 2 different people since the law when into effect and the signs when up. Those people I do not want having guns and she actually had to call the police to get one of the jerks to leave.

 

Evan

 

 

You can't fix stupid... Stupid people can drive cars and breed, too. Some people just want to argue. The intelligent ones just take their business elsewhere to a place they can carry. When I have a large chunk of cash in my pocket and I am headed to a bank or elsewhere a gun is somewhere near. Personally if I was in a bank and saw it get robbed... and I was there carrying... I wouldn't try to be a hero, unless I or someone I loved was in danger.. or I felt I wasn't getting out alive... you get the point.

[Tractor]

You can't fix stupid... Stupid people can drive cars and breed, too. Some people just want to argue. The intelligent ones just take their business elsewhere to a place they can carry. When I have a large chunk of cash in my pocket and I am headed to a bank or elsewhere a gun is somewhere near. Personally if I was in a bank and saw it get robbed... and I was there carrying... I wouldn't try to be a hero, unless I or someone I loved was in danger.. or I felt I wasn't getting out alive... you get the point.

 

I know what your saying. I think more should be done about stupid people driving too, but I'll leave that for another topic someday.

 

Evan

[RedRocket1647545505]

I've posed this challenge on other forums before, and NO ONE has been able to complete it.

 

-Find me ONE (1) news article, story, etc, where a lawful CCWer has flipped his fucking wig and went on a mass killing spree, OR, where an innocent bystander has been killed by a CCWer with a hero complex.

 

With as anti-gun as the media is, you should have absolutely no problem finding such an article. Afterall, CCWers are just gun-toting wanna-be heros, right?

[RedRocket1647545505]

DISCLAIMER: These aren't meant to be personal attacks. Just friendly debates. Also, spelling was not corrected.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Secondly, if were just talking about .22 ga varmint hunting rifles, you could protect your face with $30 worth of 1/4" MR10 lexan.

 

After this, you lost any credibility you might have had regarding your knowledge of firearms.

 

 

My personal view is, you can own whatever you want, as long as you're stable enough to handle it responsibly. If you can't wait a week to buy a gun, you just maybe to impatient to own one.

 

I really don't see the reasoning behind the week wait. If you're determined to kill someone, you'll either A. Find a gun elsewhere, or B. Kill them a week later. I have no problem waiting, but I think the idea is just dumb.

 

 

 

Sure, but you still get to own guns. Personally I don’t see the need to carry a concealed weapon of any kind, unless you’re planning on doing something sneaky with it. Carry your weapon, but keep it in sight.

Then you've obviously not put a lot of thought into the reasoning behind carrying it concealed. The idea behind keeping it concealed is to give you one more advantage over an assailant. If you've got it exposed, and someone decides they're brave enough to chance it, what's to stop them from coming up behind you and disarming you, thus taking away any advantage you had? Nothing. If it's concealed, they won't know about it, and you've still got a chance.

 

Another reason is because the public doesn't like to see a gun strapped to people. Soccer moms call the cops when they see things like this. It's just one less hassle to deal with.

 

Another reason is that I personally don't think it's any of your damn business if I choose to carry or not. If I ever choose to get a CCW permit (and who knows, I might already have it?) no one but myself will know about it. Why? Because it's none of their business. I do it for myself, and mine, and no one else.

 

Final question. Anti's scream for background checks. Guess what they do inorder to issue you a CCW permit? That's right; background check. You got your background checks you were screaming for, so why are you so worried about the people that PASSED, being batshit crazy? Haven't we already eliminated The Crazies per YOUR background checks?

 

 

 

"Guns are only for killing people" isn't hysteria at all. I'm not a gun-grabber, and I beleive that concealed weapons are for the sole purpose of killing people. Why? Because there are only 2 reasons for a gun to exist:

-Shooting targets

-Killing things

I would agree that guns, by nature, are designed for inflicting tissue damage, and sometimes, death is a byproduct. Such is life. We should clarify the point of a CCW weapon though. They are NOT meant for killing. They are meant for protecting. If the killing is needed for protecting, then so be it. We should also clarify WHO a CCW is meant to kill, if the time arives. People that need killed generally won't be missed.

 

I would also like to say that COLLECTING firearms is now one of my favorite hobbies. Stamps are meant for mailing letters, but people collect those, too.

 

 

 

The only reason to conceal a gun is to keep people from seeing it.

 

BINGO! Well, not the only reason, but I've already discussed that.

 

 

Still, the gun is there to point at people.

 

 

I would agree. Though, I would wager that the vast majority of CCW folk PRAY they never have to.

 

 

The reason I don't like CCW is this; it allows people who are admittedly threatened by somethign to walk around with a very powerful weapon.

 

Threatened? Nah. More like they like the idea of being prepared. You only get one life, and (most of the time, hehe) one family. Do what you've gotta do to hold onto them.

 

BTW, do you carry a spare tire in your car because you're scared of getting a flat? Or do you just like to be prepared incase the need arises for one?

 

 

 

A mistake made with a gun is extremely costly, and scared people make mistakes.

Agreed. But I'd argee that A. That's partially why they have you take the training; to prepare for such an event (Though I would HIGHLY advise a person to take further training to prepare as you can never have enough), and B. Most of the people that get it, aren't a bunch of idiots.

 

 

 

Carry it on the outside where we can see it, and we can avoid you.

Have you been affected yet by any of the numerous people you've undoubtedly passed who were carrying concealed? What difference, to you, will it make if it's on the outside or the inside of their clothes? They won't be doing anything different than they are already doing.

 

 

 

Nope. You're referring to situations in your own home.

It can happen just as easily on the street, in a park, at the community pool, etc. Reaction time is reaction time, no matter where you are. You don't mind your wifey getting raped for 10 minutes in a park late at night while she waits on the cops to show up and help her (if they even come at all), do you?

 

 

 

You are also referring to essentially conventional weapons. You're just as able to protect your home with Mossberg as you are with a Klashnekoff.

 

If they are essentially the same weapons, then what does it matter if the general public can have an AK or not? You said it yourself; they are essentially the same.

 

 

 

On the street, if some one intends to kill you, you'll be killed.

Absolutely, not true.

 

-What if they miss?

 

-What if they didn't intend to kill you at first, but change their mind halfway through?

 

-What if they think your wife hasn't had a good dicking in awhile and decide they should be the one to give it to her?

[RedRocket1647545505]

In this case, conceal and carry wont ave you. Int he event that you're threatened by some one with a gun who's not sure about killing you, reaching for your gun is the quickest way to make his mind up.

 

Wrong again. While the possibility is there, I don't think one should just GIVE UP. Also, proper training teaches you how to deal with situations like this. Granted, not in your basic CCW course, but there are numerous schools out there dedicated to prepping you for such a situation. It's up to you to decide how prepared you want to be.

 

 

 

Shooting some one isn't worth the trouble 99% of the time.

It's that 1% that'll get you everytime.

 

 

 

Again it is a situation where attempting to pull a gun or knife will get you shot.

Again, you're wrong. But I already discussed that.

 

 

 

learning to use your hands.

 

So you should punch the guy with the gun instead? Gotcha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evan's turn:

 

 

1) I want everyone to be able to have guns (I feel we should be able to have any gun peroid.)

 

My man.

 

 

 

2) I don't think we as a population even with guns could stop the US military from taking them from us.

Agreed, to a point. Just because we couldn't stop them, doesn't mean we shouldn't try should the scenario ever arise (which I firmly believe it won't). Also, you don't have to take out the whole military, just the people leading it. This is a more feasible approach, and an incentive to keep the public armed, IMO.

 

 

 

3) I see nearly no reason to hide a gun on average people walking the streets. The people who want that right and would use that right are the exact people I feel should definitely not have that right.

 

I respectfully disagree. I already explained my reasoning to Eric. Look up for further clarification.

 

 

 

Stop and think about it for a minute those of you who want to carry a gun concealed either want

A) to be cool having a gun on you

Some. Not all. But I'd be lying if I said there wasn't mallninjas amoung the crowd.

 

 

 

B) for some reason believe that situations come up all the time where you need to have a weapon on you that an attacker can't see. In this case professional help should be sought and I don't feel these people could pass a mental evaluation on the subject.

 

All the time? Nah. It only needs to happen to you once. Once is enough.

 

You also can't deny the advantage you would have by an attacker not knowing you've got a weapon.

 

 

 

Believe me I love guns, but wouldn't want 99% of you guys having a fire fight in front of me or my family in a walmart to settle your fantasy of protecting the public with your huge penis err sorry gun:-)

 

Seen many fire fights breakout in front of Walmart? It's the dark alleys you've gotta worry about. Most of the time, you'll be by yourself; hence the problem.

 

 

 

I believe more people than just some cops have "little man" syndrome.

You don't have to have "little man" syndrome just because you wanna protect you and yours. Some people just like to be a little more prepared than others. There's no harm in that.

 

 

 

 

My man, Greg.

FACT: AK47's have killed NO ONE. Humans behind AK47's have killed other humans. It can be argued that if humans didn't have AK47's or even other firearms, humans would have found other ways to kill other humans--fire, bombs, spears, whatever. Humans are stupid. Firearm-related suicide victims probably would have hung themselves or found other methods if they couldn't have eaten guns.

 

Here's a novel idea, let's ban stupid humans... Especially since Mr. Yuck stickers and wall socket/outlet covers have allowed such a lineage of retards to survive.

 

<3

 

This man sees my thoughts exactly. Guns do not kill people. PEOPLE are the underlying problem. Ban all people, and the killing will STOP COMPLETELY!

 

 

:bangbang: :bangbang: :bangbang:

[Scotty2Hotty]

You all know I'm pretty right-wing. I agree with Eric's basic argument on CCW.

 

Here are my views

 

1) I want everyone to be able to have guns (I feel we should be able to have any gun peroid.)

 

2) I don't think we as a population even with guns could stop the US military from taking them from us. Some of you that disagree are the exact people that shouldn't have guns.

 

3) I see nearly no reason to hide a gun on average people walking the streets. The people who want that right and would use that right are the exact people I feel should definitely not have that right.

 

Stop and think about it for a minute those of you who want to carry a gun concealed either want

A) to be cool having a gun on you

B) for some reason believe that situations come up all the time where you need to have a weapon on you that an attacker can't see. In this case professional help should be sought and I don't feel these people could pass a mental evaluation on the subject.

 

Believe me I love guns, but wouldn't want 99% of you guys having a fire fight in front of me or my family in a walmart to settle your fantasy of protecting the public with your huge penis err sorry gun:-)

 

I believe more people than just some cops have "little man" syndrome.

 

Evan

Some veterans, including myself are very used to having loaded firearms with me. There's no hero complex, or I'm superman and can stop everything. I wish to protect myself, my friends, and my family that maybe around me. The public not knowing I have a weapon upon me, leaves me that element of suprise, if I were to have to draw upon someone. Again, those that live in the country, you never know also when a crazy ass coyote will attack a house dog too. Firearms to me are like 90% of America's cell phones, it's just a tool, but you don't feel right without one. If you carried one for as long as I did, you are quite comfortable with it, and know what it is capable of. I know what happens when a trigger is pulled and a round goes down range into flesh.

[Nate1647545505]

Some veterans, including myself are very used to having loaded firearms with me. There's no hero complex, or I'm superman and can stop everything. I wish to protect myself, my friends, and my family that maybe around me. The public not knowing I have a weapon upon me, leaves me that element of suprise, if I were to have to draw upon someone. Again, those that live in the country, you never know also when a crazy ass coyote will attack a house dog too. Firearms to me are like 90% of America's cell phones, it's just a tool, but you don't feel right without one. If you carried one for as long as I did, you are quite comfortable with it, and know what it is capable of. I know what happens when a trigger is pulled and a round goes down range into flesh.

 

This is my safety, sir.

[RangerTurbo]

Another point about the types that want to CC. My wife works as a manager at a 5/3 bank and she's had more than one person come into her bank and verbally attack her and attempt to argue with her about their "no weapons" sign on the door.

 

Usually that person starts out with "this is BS I wanna be able to bring my gun in here so I can protect you if someone robs the place." Holy shit is this person stuck in a wild west movie or what?

 

Its happened with 2 different people since the law when into effect and the signs when up. Those people I do not want having guns and she actually had to call the police to get one of the jerks to leave.

 

Evan

 

Give the wild west analogies a break, Hollywood has played that scene up way too much. Other wise, I follow your thoughts. The people who are going to argue, want to argue. Unfortunately, other than what your wife has done, there isn't much more to do. Those guys, though openly argumentative, apparently aren't going to go shooting the place up cause they can't carry there. Neither has. So arguing the point that they shouldn't be allowed to carry simply because they don't walk around with the "I carry a gun so I have to kiss everyone's ass and speak like a preacher on Sunday" attitude isn't a valid reason.

 

Take it a step further though and you'd be right. If they were pissed enough to shoot up the place wouldn't you rather your wife have the uninfringed right to carry her self to possibly nuetralize that threat?

 

More dumb gun laws wouldn't stop the guy from going psycho if he had obtained the gun legally to begin with, hell if he'd obtained it illegally for that matter too. Instead, more gun laws are keeping people at risk (such as your wife) from being able to protect their own freedom.

 

 

Yes, those two were wrong and handled the situation wrong. They responsibly should have requested to speak to a manager, district manager, CEO etc of the Bank and informed them of why they would be leaving and taking all their business elsewhere.

 

 

Not to call you Liberal again since that came off wrong the first time. But look and see that restricting those guys from carrying, will only restrict your rights more. Catch22 situation arises. Where as, they only got verbal, you didn't say they threatened, or brandished, so other than NOT leaving when asked, they did nothing wrong really. So, if by that logic, they shouldn't be allowed to carry because they get offended that they can't carry, you're thinking the same way all the anti's are.

 

 

 

Wrong again. While the possibility is there, I don't think one should just GIVE UP.

AMEN!! Otherwise you become these victims in this video

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ac_1185738996

Luckily, the gun jambed or ran out of ammo. The guy at the counter saw the threat and had more than ample time to have been able to respond with force. No indication of state the video came from, so no indication of whether he was able to carry or not. Maybe it was his personal choice, or he simply wasn't allowed by law. The simple fact is, had he been carrying, the outcome could have been a total flip from what took place. But, putting gun restrictions on law abiding citizens makes us ALL THOSE potential VICTIMS.

[Tractor]

You must still not understand that I'm on your side. I never meant those guys with CCW were gonna shoot up the bank. I was meaning those guys were arguing that they should be able to have a gun in the bank so that they could protect my wife. That basically wanted to be the lone ranger:-)

 

 

Oh and Scotty nothing personal, but from a lot of the things on here that you've posted your the exact veteran that I would not want running around armed. Maybe I've read you wrong since its very easy to do from reading posts, but you seem pretty nuts sometimes. I know that I do too and I"m sure a lot of you wouldn't want me running around armed either.

 

 

 

Here's a kinda cool point. Sure I might not find to many instances where CCW holders went trigger happy if any, but if lets say 20% of the population felt the need to CC. Attackers would obviously know they could run into potentially armed citizens and get hurt/killed while attempting a rape/robbery/whatever. Now if I were an attacker I wouldn't even bother giving you a chance to draw your weapon. I'd just stab you in the fucking eye and take your shit right off the bat.

 

You up the ante for the criminals and some of them are gonna call your bluff.

Also the 80% of the rest of the citizens now get to face a much more dangerous and hostile attacker since he knows he has got to be swift to be effective.

 

I know I wouldn't give you the chance I'd just shoot first steal loot later.

 

Evan

 

 

Give the wild west analogies a break, Hollywood has played that scene up way too much. Other wise, I follow your thoughts. The people who are going to argue, want to argue. Unfortunately, other than what your wife has done, there isn't much more to do. Those guys, though openly argumentative, apparently aren't going to go shooting the place up cause they can't carry there. Neither has. So arguing the point that they shouldn't be allowed to carry simply because they don't walk around with the "I carry a gun so I have to kiss everyone's ass and speak like a preacher on Sunday" attitude isn't a valid reason.

 

Take it a step further though and you'd be right. If they were pissed enough to shoot up the place wouldn't you rather your wife have the uninfringed right to carry her self to possibly nuetralize that threat?

 

More dumb gun laws wouldn't stop the guy from going psycho if he had obtained the gun legally to begin with, hell if he'd obtained it illegally for that matter too. Instead, more gun laws are keeping people at risk (such as your wife) from being able to protect their own freedom.

 

 

Yes, those two were wrong and handled the situation wrong. They responsibly should have requested to speak to a manager, district manager, CEO etc of the Bank and informed them of why they would be leaving and taking all their business elsewhere.

 

 

Not to call you Liberal again since that came off wrong the first time. But look and see that restricting those guys from carrying, will only restrict your rights more. Catch22 situation arises. Where as, they only got verbal, you didn't say they threatened, or brandished, so other than NOT leaving when asked, they did nothing wrong really. So, if by that logic, they shouldn't be allowed to carry because they get offended that they can't carry, you're thinking the same way all the anti's are.

 

 

 

AMEN!! Otherwise you become these victims in this video

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ac_1185738996

Luckily, the gun jambed or ran out of ammo. The guy at the counter saw the threat and had more than ample time to have been able to respond with force. No indication of state the video came from, so no indication of whether he was able to carry or not. Maybe it was his personal choice, or he simply wasn't allowed by law. The simple fact is, had he been carrying, the outcome could have been a total flip from what took place. But, putting gun restrictions on law abiding citizens makes us ALL THOSE potential VICTIMS.

[RangerTurbo]

You must still not understand that I'm on your side.

 

No, I do. I just couldn't figure a way to reword my previous post to not make it sound like you were wanting those restrictions. Hard to make the separation when both points needed made.

 

CCW's do have the lawful ability to protect others if their life's are in terminal danger if they so choose. This doesn't make them Lone Ranger's, Desperado's, Outlaw's, Gun Slinger's or any other hyperbolic media term for them wanting to help protect their fellow man. A little over zealous? Sure maybe.

 

 

 

 

if lets say 20% of the population felt the need to CC. Attackers would obviously know they could run into potentially armed citizens and get hurt/killed while attempting a rape/robbery/whatever. Now if I were an attacker I wouldn't even bother giving you a chance to draw your weapon. I'd just stab you in the fucking eye and take your shit right off the bat.

 

You up the ante for the criminals and some of them are gonna call your bluff.

Also the 80% of the rest of the citizens now get to face a much more dangerous and hostile attacker since he knows he has got to be swift to be effective.

 

I know I wouldn't give you the chance I'd just shoot first steal loot later.

The town and state escape me right now. But there is a U.S. town where it's required for every adult citizen to be armed. This town has not had a violent crime in ~30yrs. Couldn't possibly be because they are all carrying?

[Scotty2Hotty]

 

Oh and Scotty nothing personal, but from a lot of the things on here that you've posted your the exact veteran that I would not want running around armed. Maybe I've read you wrong since its very easy to do from reading posts, but you seem pretty nuts sometimes. I know that I do too and I"m sure a lot of you wouldn't want me running around armed either.

 

 

 

Upstairs I'm probably not all there, BUT when it comes down to things like my life, or those I care about things get real.(I'm pretty normal in person to be honest, when on a computer I'm a jackass) I know how to escalate force, it basically a tree. Long hours of repetition, and real life events I've been through give me a little more perspective on things. If I was at the gas station as it was being robbed, and I could SAFELY do something, I would. Now, if there is no clear line of sight, and innocents are in the way, I'd be a stuck up bitch like the rest of them. I have a small conscience left Never the less, I don't see too many people being comfortable with an open carry. In some places that might cause an uproar, and craziness. Thus the reason, out of sight and out of mind. You don't see it, so why do you mind? Trust me no man should be put through having to end another's life, but that's a true measure of someone's internal soul. Do you think or do you know? Answered mine at age 19.

Oh, and my next carry gun God has a hardon for .45ACP.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/GLOCK30.jpg/300px-GLOCK30.jpg

[Scotty2Hotty]

I hate my waiting period. Greg make those FBI cocksuckers stop it everytime I buy a firearm.

[cinergi]

I get the waiting period, too. Most military with any prior real use of firearms seem to get that.

[RangerTurbo]

Oh, and my next carry gun God has a hardon for .45ACP.

 

I'm picking up a .45ACP too, though in a slightly larger frame, and not for CC

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Spartan/images/Spartan06-Main_800w.jpg

[RedRocket1647545505]

I'm picking up a .45ACP too, though in a slightly larger frame, and not for CC

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Spartan/images/Spartan06-Main_800w.jpg

 

GREAT gun from what I've heard. Springer Precision sells a customized, basic Spartan if you're looking for a starter race gun. IIRC, it's around $1,100, with the upgrades.

[RangerTurbo]

All the reviews I've read put this 1911 at the top of the food chain for it's price. The place I'm picking it up from, is the guy who did my CCW class out here. He owns one hell of a shop, and always has good deals on new guns and or group buys.

 

These retail for $660 before tax and transfer fees from STI, I pay'd $582 with tax for mine

 

Anyhow, not looking for anything from it other than a reliable super fun target gun. Though I know I'll OC it every now and then

[RedRocket1647545505]

STI Spartan > all entry level 1911's. True story.

[cinergi]

False. I would caution you from an STi. PM me for details. I have sent every one of them back I have ever sold.... Well over 12. All have had various issues. I am not going to argue and say that STi parts are junk because they are not, however I don't believe they are assembling them right at all. I know a little bit about 1911's... last time I checked I'd owned 79 of 'em at some point. Been shooting them since I was six or seven. My feedback is based upon the fact that I sell guns and then feedback on them immediately after they get shot. That's the beauty of working at a range...

[RedRocket1647545505]

False. I would caution you from an STi. PM me for details. I have sent every one of them back I have ever sold.... Well over 12.

 

Really? I've heard nothing but great things 'bout 'em. I've never shot one, so, this makes me sad.

 

PM inbound...

[04r1]

They look cheap as hell. Look at that trigger.

[RangerTurbo]

I questioned the trigger too, but STi isn't the only name to use the plastic trigger.

 

That is a horrible stock picture, in person they do look much better.

 

 

 

Edit: thanks for the added info Cinergi. I *should* have the gun today, if not early in the week. They were shipped late last week early this week so they should be about here. I'll have a range report sometime in the coming week then if I get it before I leave for Europe.

[cinergi]

I hope they got things right now. The Spartan is a nice gun. I recommend upgrading the mags asap.