CMH and checking a gun

[RangerTurbo]

How many articles have you seen lately (scope of lately can equal years) of places getting shot up and people dieing because they were unarmed or not willing to defend themselves?

 

The recent Tennessee Church shooting? The church shootings in Colorado within the past year. The Utah Mall shooting? The multiple High school and or College shootings?

 

Not one of these incidents (baring the Mall shooting which was stopped by a CCW person) did any of the victims introduce a gun to provoke the shootings.

 

If you are waiting for a gun wielder to shoot at you before you take them as a threat, you have already lost your battle inside to save yourself. Reactive is no substitute for proactive in these cases.

[HAOLE]

I don't think Hitler is going to try and car jack you, meaning, I'm not trying to convey flying the French flag, but, think of how many videos and stories of shops getting robbed; notice the shots do not usually start flying until another firearm is introduced.

 

You aren't a threat until you present yourself to be one in my eyes.

The key word is "usually". Death row has many guys on it that did not want to leave witnesses. I think I will take my chances with a gun at my side.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Just passing through...

[Nate1647545505]

I have to ask: How many of those mass murders were committed by persons that owned and operated illegally or were later found not suited to own and operate a fire arm?

 

Without getting to personal, maybe there is a bigger picture? Maybe more lives can be saved without having to take them. I weigh life as a very heavy thing, taking one may be necessary, but I'm of the opinion, make sure it's absolutely necessary.

[TheHaze]

I weigh life as a very heavy thing, taking one may be necessary, but I'm of the opinion, make sure it's absolutely necessary.

What's funny is, this is the type of statement that CCW'ers cite the most. In essence, you're missing the big picture. Any true ccw person does not want to use their gun but does not ignore it as a proper tool.

 

 

"Better him than me."

[Nate1647545505]

The key word is "usually". Death row has many guys on it that did not want to leave witnesses. I think I will take my chances with a gun at my side.

 

Didn't know Knox County had so many on Death Row...

[RangerTurbo]

Nate, that's just the thing. If they were illegally having these weapons, nothing could have been done to stop that then to begin with. No law, no ordinance, no sign, nothing. All of those places were ironically "gun free" zones. Yet they did nothing for the victims other then secure their inability to defend themselves.

 

I think that I approached your angle? It's hard to tell what you really meant, this thread has looked at many different angles of guns, violence using guns etc.

 

 

 

 

The last part of your second thought. I absolutely agree.

[Nate1647545505]

Let me make myself a touch clearer: incidents are going to keep happening, the world is crazy place, no doubt about it. The majority of the mass murders listed could have been prevented without any blood shed, just more paperwork.

 

Why respond to a problem with an answer, why not a solution? I'm not ruling out CCW, just trying to convey my opinion that it's an answer, and there may be better solution(s)

[LJ]

like what. i'm assuming you have a handgun--what else do you use it for??? to stir your coffee in the morning?? can you use it to open bottles??

 

i realize you can probably use it for sport (shooting range), but that's irrelevant to the current conversation.

 

 

Side carry for hunting

[kirks5oh]

Side carry for hunting

 

 

you carry a handgun while hunting??

[LJ]

you carry a handgun while hunting??

 

 

Depends on what you are hunting.

 

Rabbits, no you don't...

 

large deer at long distance, black bear, etc, yes most people carry a sidearm

[GonneVille]

You know, the only thing I should have to say, and the one argument that every single anti-gun whacko completely chooses to ignore, even though it is an ABSOLUTE truth is;

Laws only apply to those who choose to obey them, and those who are CAUGHT breaking them.

[Nate1647545505]

You know, the only thing I should have to say, and the one argument that every single anti-gun whacko completely chooses to ignore, even though it is an ABSOLUTE truth is;

Laws only apply to those who choose to obey them, and those who are CAUGHT breaking them.

 

So how many mass murders/robberies are committed using Class II or Class III equipment?

[GonneVille]

So how many mass murders/robberies are committed using Class II or Class III equipment?

Purely a matter of supply. Gun makers haven't been allowed to sell full auto to civilians for years, outside of a vanishing few who obtain extraordinarily expensive permits. On the other hand, police still confiscate plenty of full-auto weapons every year, most of them smuggled into the country. Again, the law hasn't stopped the criminals, has it? Made it harder, I admit, but they're still out there.

 

Here's a challenge for you, go to the range and observe some behavior for a while. Cause what I notice is that the people that have CCW permits are generally the most safety-conscious people at the range.

[Nate1647545505]

Purely a matter of supply. Gun makers haven't been allowed to sell full auto to civilians for years, outside of a vanishing few who obtain extraordinarily expensive permits. ......

 

Vanishing few? I could give you references to a handful of people that have these "extraordinary expensive permit", from mechanics to financial planners. Think about this, If you can look like a terrorist in this day and age and still get one, must not be to hard to get, eh?

 

In my mind that means there is still some hope to better control the distribution of firearms. Will it solve every problem? Nah, but could it have prevented Columbine, U of Ten, etc..;investigative reports tend to think that way.

 

Here's a challenge for you, go to the range and observe some behavior for a while. Cause what I notice is that the people that have CCW permits are generally the most safety-conscious people at the range.

 

I don't think you know me well enough to offer that challenge. Most people will tell you I'm a diehard gun nut/science freak. I spend a vast amount of time around firearms, both long barrel and pistol, mostly in precision shooting. I've also spent a collection of time with people who've had to make choices and bring lives to an end.

 

Honestly, I'm glad there are people like Matt out there (maybe not as crazy ) but, glad regardless. It's because people like him there isn't a ban on some of America's (and other countries) most bad ass rifles. The last thing I want to do is take away what I personally enjoy, but I'm willing to wait another week or pay for additional costs for more extensive background checks to help keep firearms in the right hands. Want to inspect how I keep my guns locked up and tucked away? Sure, come on in, I'll get you a beer...

[TheHaze]

Think about this, If you can look like a terrorist in this day and age and still get one, must not be to hard to get, eh?

What does a "terrorist" look like?

 

 

Like I said earlier, this is a simple matter. Once you have a better solution and somehow market it successfully across the world, and SOMEHOW convince criminals, violent peoples and governments to be fair and peaceful in every situation that arises, only than will people not use weapons. It will only work by will, not by force.

[Nate1647545505]

What does a "terrorist" look like?

 

 

Like I said earlier, this is a simple matter. Once you have a better solution and somehow market it successfully across the world, and SOMEHOW convince criminals, violent peoples and governments to be fair and peaceful in every situation that arises, only than will people not use weapons. It will only work by will, not by force.

 

Do I honestly have to post a self portrait of myself to show that it's not that hard to get class II and class III permits - just forms, time, and $$$$.$$?

 

I'm astounded by the extremes in both directions. I've never supported taking away guns, nor have I supported carrying them in the public domain. I don't know what I have to sing or dance to convey there just might be a bigger picture to the issue. Do I have all the answers? No. Do I see things that could be improved? Who doesn't? Do I want to take the path that leaves the least amount of blood? Definitely.

 

Think.

[TheHaze]

Do I honestly have to post a self portrait of myself to show that it's not that hard to get class II and class III permits - just forms, time, and $$$$.$$?

Yes, please do. I'm interested to see what a socialist looks like.

 

Act.

[Nate1647545505]

Yes, please do. I'm interested to see what a socialist looks like.

 

Act.

 

Maybe you didn't get the joke/reference, but I look like a terrorist (its a running joke here), and apparently people in Delaware think the same.

 

The only thing I can tell everyone that wants to 'Act' so quickly is that I hope you're ready for the aftermath of when that bullet leaves the chamber. No training will ever prepare you for it.

[TheHaze]

Maybe you didn't get the joke/reference, but I look like a terrorist (its a running joke here), and apparently people in Delaware think the same.

 

The only thing I can tell everyone that wants to 'Act' so quickly is that I hope you're ready for the aftermath of when that bullet leaves the chamber. No training will ever prepare you for it.

I didn't get it, probably because I don't know you nor have I seen the back story. Again, what does a terrorist look like? Ivory Coast pirate? An Arab? Japanese Yakuza?

 

Any maniac can get a gun, yes. But when you regulate where you can carry it, guess who will still carry it anywhere? The criminal. Like I said earlier, that nobody cares about, the change must be brought about by will, not force. As long as there are people willing to criminalize things, than rules don't work except against people willing to abide by them.

 

On a tyrannical-type aspect, if the government is able to regulate gun control, what else can they do? Are you really willing to be submissive to anything a governing body tells you?

[Nate1647545505]

I didn't get it, probably because I don't know you nor have I seen the back story. Again, what does a terrorist look like? Ivory Coast pirate? An Arab? Japanese Yakuza?

I don't know what planet you've been living on, but the majority of people in this country picture a terrorist being of Arab decent.

 

Any maniac can get a gun, yes.

NO! Stop, read, think. How many crimes are committed with fully auto ARs? How many times do we hear about people launching an M203 into a school gymnasium? How many times have you read about school shootings involving a fully dug in, mounted .50 - because its only a matter of time and money to get such things.

 

If the government/gun manufactures/vendors have been successful in regulating that equipment, who says they can't extend that downwards?

 

On a tyrannical-type aspect, if the government is able to regulate gun control, what else can they do? Are you really willing to be submissive to anything a governing body tells you?

I'm willing to pay a few dollars more and wait a few weeks longer if that prevents a firearm from ending up in the wrong hands. I'm willing for the ATF to knock on my door and ask to see if I'm doing my part to make sure my weapons are secure.

 

I'm not telling you to bend over for Uncle Sam, I'm simply suggesting you should be on the pill if you're going to do the nasty with him.

[TheHaze]

I don't know what planet you've been living on, but the majority of people in this country picture a terrorist being of Arab decent.

 

I was not aware that an individual could think on a societal level. Interesting judgment as well, I must say. Despite what type of human being can own a gun, legally or not, how can you regulate where people are carrying? How's the ban on cocaine working? Just great.

 

NO! Stop, read, think. How many crimes are committed with fully auto ARs? How many times do we hear about people launching an M203 into a school gymnasium? How many times have you read about school shootings involving a fully dug in, mounted .50 - because its only a matter of time and money to get such things.

 

What does it matter if it's automatic or not, when there have been hundreds of deaths from assault rifles? People are still using them to kill, most of which probably gained them illegally. Maybe you can go ask them to stop?

 

If the government/gun manufactures/vendors have been successful in regulating that equipment, who says they can't extend that downwards?

 

They haven't been fully successful. The components necessary to convert to automatic is available fairly easily. These even sub-compacts like uzi's that are easily obtainable.

 

 

I'm willing to pay a few dollars more and wait a few weeks longer if that prevents a firearm from ending up in the wrong hands. I'm willing for the ATF to knock on my door and ask to see if I'm doing my part to make sure my weapons are secure.

 

Super, maybe somewhere in Europe or Australia would be a better residence for you, as they don't seem to mind paying out the ass for non-working regulations and even more dysfunctional governments.

 

I'm not telling you to bend over for Uncle Sam, I'm simply suggesting you should be on the pill if you're going to do the nasty with him.

 

I think you have the perception that every CCW person carries on them at all times, paranoid of crime and often looking for a fight and someone to kill. I have never met nor talked to a true and law-abiding gun advocate who hasn't entirely respected the act of carrying and self defense.

[Nate1647545505]

I was not aware that an individual could think on a societal level. Interesting judgment as well, I must say.

I wasn't aware you haven't been profiled by the majority of the people you've come across in life.

 

Despite what type of human being can own a gun, legally or not, how can you regulate where people are carrying? How's the ban on cocaine working? Just great.

Where have I said anything about regulating where or who carries??? What you want to do in your spare time with drugs is your business, I'm sticking to firearms.

 

What does it matter if it's automatic or not, when there have been hundreds of deaths from assault rifles? People are still using them to kill, most of which probably gained them illegally. Maybe you can go ask them to stop?

For the x100000 time, if a system is in place to keep the majority, not all, but the majority of fully automatic, suppressed, etc out of the hands of people not fit to own them - what in that system is successful that isn't at the lower levels??

 

They haven't been fully successful. The components necessary to convert to automatic is available fairly easily. These even sub-compacts like uzi's that are easily obtainable.

Where do you do your shopping, really...

 

Super, maybe somewhere in Europe or Australia would be a better residence for you, as they don't seem to mind paying out the ass for non-working regulations and even more dysfunctional governments.

You have a really positive attitude here.

 

 

I think you have the perception that every CCW person carries on them at all times, paranoid of crime and often looking for a fight and someone to kill. I have never met nor talked to a true and law-abiding gun advocate who hasn't entirely respected the act of carrying and self defense.

The majority of people I'm around are ex-military/military/CCW holders/LEO. Ask any one of them if they have ever heard me say any less of them because of their choice to carry. I've listened to their experiences. I think there's a bigger picture to it all.

[TheHaze]

I think there's a bigger picture to it all.

There's nothing profound or different to what you've said. People aren't neanderthals. The general understanding is that issues like this can become complex and have a huge impact on everyone's lives. We all know there is a "big picture". There's no simple solution and never will be for as long as humanity exists and cultures differ.

 

I'm not quite sure what you're even arguing. It seems as if you've acknowledged owning firearms but disagree with some other aspect?

[HAOLE]

Didn't know Knox County had so many on Death Row...

2 murders so far this year. I do leave the county too.