Obama not eligible for nomination

[Conesmasher]

What obama wants to do with taxes is just not right. Most people don't know much about taxes and it's easy for them to say, tax the rich. They can afford it. If Obama gets his way, he wants to raise the max tax braket 5+%, take away the Social Security cap AND count all interest income as regular income.

 

What most people don't know about the max tax brakets is not only do we already pay 35% federal tax, but they take ALL your write off's away. The only write offs are the interest on your house (up to a $1,000,000 house) and money donated to a charity. I don't get to write off the taxes on my house, my 3 children, my wife that doesn't work, anything. So in essance I'm already paying more then 35%.

 

If Obama gets his way, being self employeed, I'll have to pay 40% federal tax, 15% Social Security, 1.54% medicare, 7% Ohio tax. Then after I get my money I have to pay my property taxes, and 7.25% sales tax. So for every dollar I would earn I would net end up with between 25 and 30 cents.

 

Now lets look at the change in interest income. Immediately anybody that saved up money and retired will be fucked. He'd in essance double the tax for those individuals, which means in order for them to keep their same standard of income to live off that interest they would need twice as much money. So anybody on here that has a money goal that they want to hit to retire, go ahead and enter that into a calculator and multiply it by 2.5, then recalculate what your going to need to save on a monthly basis to get there.

 

Now I'm not saying Macain is the answer. I'm just saying Obama is so far out there that he is going to cause a lot of problems for a lot of people.

 

That's my .02 cents on it. I know the arguement for the obama supporters, but if someone want to share it, I'd welcome it.

 

I'll bite.

 

If the governement is not going to reduce spending, we cannot continue to run deficits like this. We can scream "quit spending" all we want, but no one is listening. They will never quit spending.....quite frankly, we're not screaming loud enough.

 

With McCain I see tax stability/tax breaks with increased spending.

 

With Obama I see tax increases with increased spending.

 

 

As much as it painstakingly kills me to say it. I'd rather have someone that pays to play, than borrows to play. All the recent taxe breaks have been financed with DEBT. The American gov't has LENT $$$$$$$$ to the upper class in our country. That's how I see it.

 

In addition, Obama is in favor of PAYGO. With every spending increase there must be a tax increase. Basically, whomever decides they want to spend money, they have to figure where they are going to get it from.

 

On a side note. Taxes blow. I hate them. And if I get taxed more, I'm going to do what everyone of you hard working motherfuckers are going to do.......I'm going to make more money. If they are going to take more, I'm going to find a way to make up that difference.

 

And some of these figures that some of you put out are just plain silly

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Tax_Reform.htm

[LPFSTheFett]

I'll bite.

 

If the governement is not going to reduce spending, we cannot continue to run deficits like this. We can scream "quit spending" all we want, but no one is listening. They will never quit spending.....quite frankly, we're not screaming loud enough.

 

With McCain I see tax stability/tax breaks with increased spending.

 

With Obama I see tax increases with increased spending.

 

 

As much as it painstakingly kills me to say it. I'd rather have someone that pays to play, than borrows to play. All the recent taxe breaks have been financed with DEBT. The American gov't has LENT $$$$$$$$ to the upper class in our country. That's how I see it.

 

In addition, Obama is in favor of PAYGO. With every spending increase there must be a tax increase. Basically, whomever decides they want to spend money, they have to figure where they are going to get it from.

 

On a side note. Taxes blow. I hate them. And if I get taxed more, I'm going to do what everyone of you hard working motherfuckers are going to do.......I'm going to make more money. If they are going to take more, I'm going to find a way to make up that difference.

 

And some of these figures that some of you put out are just plain silly

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Tax_Reform.htm

 

Understand I'm not saying either arguement is right or wrong, which is why I welcomed a Obama supporter. McCain has actually said he agrees that taxes do need to be raised and the government needs to be downsized. Bush was supposed to be a republican which doesn't believe in big government, but it's actually increased more with him then anybody else(not 100% on this fact, coming from memory).

 

I'd love to see why you think the goverment has lent money to the upper class in the country. As I see it, the government gives a hell of a lot more money to the lower class. Obama and Hillary with all of their universal health care and other programs that they want to push mearly take us closer to a socialist economy. I'm all for a universal health care program, until they tell me I don't quality because I make too much, which you know will happen. Then your still going to have to have insurance because there are going to be doctors and the best doctors, and your going to want to have insurance just to be able to go to a better doctor, which will charge more then the standard rates. Ok... so lets say it's 100% covered for every american regardless of how much you make and they mandate no doctor can charge over a certain amount. What do you call that? Sure as shit isn't capitalistic for the doctors and look how many Insurnace companies and Hundreds of thousands of people that puts out of business.

 

I agree taxes blow and i'm certainly not apposed to a tax hike, however Bushes tax cuts expire in a few years as it is. How much higher does it really need to go? Raise my taxes, but damn atleast let me get some write offs.

 

The other arguement for Obama that you didn't mention is what he "will do" for the american dollar. Many supporters say even though you'll clear less you'll have more because the american dollar is worth more. This is by far his best arguement IMHO, however I don't see it having the impact everyone says it will.

 

Jason

[LPFSTheFett]

Another issue I'd like to see addressed by Obama and McCain is what they are going to do for our schools. As it stands the United States is ranked 21st in the world, which imho is an embarrassment. Bush passed his no child left behind act, which was atleast a step towards fixing the problem and all you hear is crap about it. At least he made some kind of attempt.

 

The next thing that needs addressed is immigration and what's going to be done about that. The Democrats and Republicans bicker so much back and forth nothing happens. They both agree there is a problem, but refuse to work together to fix it. Thats the problem with our country. That's also part of the reason Bushes last 4 years in office have been useless. Can't exactly pass any laws with both sides boycot each other.

[LPFSTheFett]

Tripple FTW!!

 

Even if there was a third canidate running and somehow he magically won the election. He wouldn't do any better. Do you really think the republicans or democrats would approve a bill that he had made.

[rmezz13]

I am someone who likes to see things from both sides, i don't really claim a party but as far as i have seen so far this election, Obama is not looking to good. It seems to me, all of his plans are to have complete control over us and our money. I think thats considered socialism. Not good at all.

 

I do agree i haven't heard anything from either candidate about schooling and to me thats always been an issue. I am more bothered with local (Ohio) schooling and how thats handled. Its bad and will not change because we (Ohioians) will not change it. But thats another story....

Anyway, the thing i actually like about McCain is his ability to answer with fact, opinion, and shows experience by having something to compare or a story of something that happened similar or along the lines of the issue. That really pulls me to him. Obama has facts, but thats it. Most of it sounds like he's reading from a cue card. I don't know if any of you caught the Saddleback Church thing, where they had Obama answer questions for an hour then McCain also for an hour. McCain dominated and had some excellent answers. Obama was lost the whole time.

 

In the end it comes down to experience. McCain's got it, he'll be our next president. I believe just because of Obama's ethnic background, doesn't mean they are going to vote for him. We are not in a good position as a country financially and even though USA is 21st in schools, we are not that ignorant to just vote for someone because of their skin tone.... As for the people who say they are voting for him just because he is black, ask them if they are even a registered voter. I bet most of them didn't even know you had to be registered to vote.....

[Tractor]

I think we could fix a lot of the political systems problems by setting term limits for congress. 2 or 4 terms would be fine with me. Preferably 2 and I hope we run out of lawyers to do that job and end up needing to pull from more areas of expertise. We might be surprised as how well things would run once we get all the money out of the way.

 

Evan

[Tractor]

As for the people who say they are voting for him just because he is black, ask them if they are even a registered voter. I bet most of them didn't even know you had to be registered to vote.....

 

 

I think your on to something here and I agree.

 

Evan

[Archie]

Another issue I'd like to see addressed by Obama and McCain is what they are going to do for our schools. As it stands the United States is ranked 21st in the world, which imho is an embarrassment. Bush passed his no child left behind act, which was atleast a step towards fixing the problem and all you hear is crap about it. At least he made some kind of attempt.

 

The next thing that needs addressed is immigration and what's going to be done about that. The Democrats and Republicans bicker so much back and forth nothing happens. They both agree there is a problem, but refuse to work together to fix it. Thats the problem with our country. That's also part of the reason Bushes last 4 years in office have been useless. Can't exactly pass any laws with both sides boycot each other.

 

A good point on both of these issues is the fact that the government gets what they pay for...

 

One of the most powerful militaries in the world? $$$$$

Bailing out corrupt sub prime lenders? $$$$

The list of the "important" stuff is far too long.

 

On the bottom of the list is education, immigration (which is a whole other can of worms to pop open), healthcare issues, national debt, infrastructure (roads/bridges).

 

The government & the elite want people to be uneducated, unhealthy, unemployed, and unimportant so that they can just cry to the government for help and become slaves. This is the endgame they want: A global government lead by a minority of "elite" people to rule and majority of poor peasant slaves, similar to the feudal system.

 

I may be seen as paranoid, but all I see is more and more control... Look at this whole streetracing crusade the cops/media are going on. And I see too many idiots saying stupid shit like "Yay cool, department of homeland security, they're awesome" and "cops are cool, they have to beat and tase you, it's for your own good".

[thorne]

I think he's saying exactly what you are.

 

People will vote for Obama because he's black(ish).

People will vote for McCain because he's not black(ish).

 

It'll go both ways, but, either train of thought is retarded to me. This election makes me wish we had some kind of anonymous system in place. Where, we don't vote on the person, just their ideals. Impossible, I know. But it'd be nice if it were possible.

 

I'll take the candidate behind door #3, please.

Hell Fucking Yeah.

 

I don't like eather but I chose Obama because I'm concerned that 4 more years of bushinomics will doom us. i'm also extremly concerned about universal health care. I will say I make descent money

 

As a gun lover Obama also concerns me. I'm so torn I really think we need a complete overhall and I do think if in the next 50 years we don't make a change by choice it will happen by force.

 

:\

[Scotty2Hotty]

possibly, but between him and McCain who is the lesser of the two evils?

I'll take the old white fart.

[HAOLE]

How about our country just following the Constitution and get out of the socialism that the people in power have lead us down since the early 1900's. If we did that then we would not have to worry about dem or republican, just the constitution.

[HAOLE]

[TheHaze]

How about our country just following the Constitution and get out of the socialism that the people in power have lead us down since the early 1900's. If we did that then we would not have to worry about dem or republican, just the constitution.

Smartest post in this thread.

[copperhead]

How about our country just following the Constitution and get out of the socialism that the people in power have lead us down since the early 1900's. If we did that then we would not have to worry about dem or republican, just the constitution.

 

Because nobody is getting rich by doing that

[Conesmasher]

I'd love to see why you think the goverment has lent money to the upper class in the country. As I see it, the government gives a hell of a lot more money to the lower class.

 

It's not that I specifically feel this way.....but this can be a perception. Fiscal doings are very multi-dimensional. Relating them directly is next to immpossible.

 

The picture can be painted that as the tax cuts were implemented in 2001, serious budget shortfall began on the federal level. These tax cuts should have been followed by budget cuts in the federal gov't. So the money that stayed in taxpayers hands, actually was a "loan" issued by the federal gov't. And while practcally everyone across the board benefitted.....those who benefit the most in terms of $$, not percentages.....will have the finger pointed at them....ie "the rich".

 

I did exxagerate, but this is how it is percieved by some. The gov't is borrowing at a faster rate, while the "rich" have paid less taxes at a faster rate. On the flip side, we have seen arguably, how resilient our economy is..........so far.....I'm personally amazed.

 

 

But.....Personally, I think that it should be illegal for any governmental system to run deficits, period. This whole borrowing thing.....has no accountability.

 

And yes, term limits would be very nice.

[99FLHRCI]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/28/america/28mccain.php?page=1

 

McCain's birthplace prompts queries about whether that rules him out

 

 

By Carl Hulse

 

Published: February 28, 2008

 

 

 

WASHINGTON: The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

 

McCain's likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a "natural-born citizen" can hold the nation's highest office.

 

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

 

"There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent," said Sarah Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. "It is not a slam-dunk situation."

 

McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.

 

But given mounting interest, the campaign recently asked Theodore Olson, a former solicitor general now advising McCain, to prepare a detailed legal analysis. "I don't have much doubt about it," said Olson, who added, though, that he still needed to finish his research.

 

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina and one of McCain's closest allies, said it would be incomprehensible to him if the son of a military member born in a military station could not run for president.

 

"He was posted there on orders from the United States government," Graham said of McCain's father. "If that becomes a problem, we need to tell every military family that your kid can't be president if they take an overseas assignment."

 

The phrase "natural born" was in early drafts of the Constitution. Scholars say notes of the Constitutional Convention give away little of the intent of the framers. Its origin may be traced to a letter from John Jay to George Washington, with Jay suggesting that to prevent foreigners from becoming commander in chief, the Constitution needed to "declare expressly" that only a natural-born citizen could be president.

 

Duggin and others who have explored the arcane subject in depth say legal argument and basic fairness may indeed be on the side of McCain, a longtime member of Congress from Arizona. But multiple experts and scholarly reviews say the issue has never been definitively resolved by either Congress or the Supreme Court.

 

Duggin favors a constitutional amendment to settle the matter. Others have called on Congress to guarantee that Americans born outside the national boundaries can legitimately see themselves as potential contenders for the Oval Office.

 

"They ought to have the same rights," said Don Nickles, a former Republican senator from Oklahoma who in 2004 introduced legislation that would have established that children born abroad to American citizens could harbor presidential ambitions without a legal cloud over their hopes. "There is some ambiguity because there has never been a court case on what 'natural-born citizen' means."

 

McCain's situation is different from those of the current governors of California and Michigan, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jennifer Granholm, who were born in other countries and were first citizens of those nations, rendering them naturalized Americans ineligible under current interpretations. The conflict that could conceivably ensnare McCain goes more to the interpretation of "natural born" when weighed against intent and decades of immigration law.

 

McCain is not the first person to find himself in these circumstances. The last Arizona Republican to be a presidential nominee, Barry Goldwater, faced the issue. He was born in the Arizona territory in 1909, three years before it became a state. But Goldwater did not win, and the view at the time was that since he was born in a continental territory that later became a state, he probably met the standard.

 

It also surfaced in the 1968 candidacy of George Romney, who was born in Mexico, but again was not tested. The former Connecticut politician Lowell Weicker Jr., born in Paris, sought a legal analysis when considering the presidency, an aide said, and was assured he was eligible. Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. was once viewed as a potential successor to his father, but was seen by some as ineligible since he had been born on Campobello Island in Canada. The 21st president, Chester Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility.

 

Quickly recognizing confusion over the evolving nature of citizenship, the First Congress in 1790 passed a measure that did define children of citizens "born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States to be natural born." But that law is still seen as potentially unconstitutional and was overtaken by subsequent legislation that omitted the "natural-born" phrase.

 

McCain's citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods. But whether he qualifies as natural-born has been a topic of Internet buzz for months, with some declaring him ineligible while others assert that he meets all the basic constitutional qualifications — a natural-born citizen at least 35 years of age with 14 years of residence.

 

"I don't think he has any problem whatsoever," said Nickles, a McCain supporter. "But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if somebody is going to try to make an issue out of it. If it goes to court, I think he will win."

 

Lawyers who have examined the topic say there is not just confusion about the provision itself, but uncertainty about who would have the legal standing to challenge a candidate on such grounds, what form a challenge could take and whether it would have to wait until after the election or could be made at any time.

 

In a paper written 20 years ago for the Yale Law Journal on the natural-born enigma, Jill Pryor, now a lawyer in Atlanta, said that any legal challenge to a presidential candidate born outside national boundaries would be "unpredictable and unsatisfactory."

 

"If I were on the Supreme Court, I would decide for John McCain," Pryor said in a recent interview. "But it is certainly not a frivolous issue."

[copperhead]

McCain was born on a US Military Base. A US Military Base, just like a US Embassy, is considered to be American soil.

 

On top of that, if you are going to deny someone the chance to run for President, who was born to two American parents in the fucking military, who were only outside of the country because the US government sent them there in the first place, then that's pretty well bullshit.

 

This issue came about when he tried to run in the 2000 election, and it was settled then. The only reason it came back up at all is to start unnecessary drama that won't amount to anything.

[SpaceGhost]

The only reason it came back up at all is to start unnecessary drama that won't amount to anything.

 

Kinda like this thread....

[copperhead]

Kinda like this thread....

 

kinda like the first half of the first page of this thread....

[Science Abuse]

All you people bitching about taxes, nibble on this simple fact of history: Giving the people what they want is histories quickest way to destroy a civilization/country.

 

The simple fact is that the USA is Mutherfuckin Bankrupt (proper noun). The reason we're Mutherfuckin Bankrupt is because whiney assholes with no consideration for the future have been voting for naive assholes who promise them successively lower taxes. Every year, the nations costs go up, and the nations income goes down. How can we call ourselves the greatest nation in the world if we're constantly having to borrow money from other nations to stay afloat?

 

Raise taxes, make life suck for a while, there is no other way. If you actually give a shit about your country, and are willing to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", pay your fuckin taxes, work hard, and get us back on top. Do NOT elect people who promise to pay you (by lowering your taxes or offering you a check), because tehy are not looking out for your best interests.

 

US citizens want no taxes, and children want to eat nothing but candy. Same mindset, same outcome.

[Wonderboy]

We are screwed no matter who's in office. I've already started building my nuclear shelter and zombie fort.

Its nice to see that someone else in this world feels the way that I do. I got the zombie problem already taken care of but the nuclear shelter is a tricky one.

 

Just something else to add to NObama, the fucker is gonna try to take my guns and I wont tolerate that shit.

[Wonderboy]

Raise taxes, make life suck for a while, there is no other way. If you actually give a shit about your country, and are willing to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", pay your fuckin taxes, work hard, and get us back on top. Do NOT elect people who promise to pay you (by lowering your taxes or offering you a check), because tehy are not looking out for your best interests.

+1

[T Rex]

All you people bitching about taxes, nibble on this simple fact of history: Giving the people what they want is histories quickest way to destroy a civilization/country.

 

The simple fact is that the USA is Mutherfuckin Bankrupt (proper noun). The reason we're Mutherfuckin Bankrupt is because whiney assholes with no consideration for the future have been voting for naive assholes who promise them successively lower taxes. Every year, the nations costs go up, and the nations income goes down. How can we call ourselves the greatest nation in the world if we're constantly having to borrow money from other nations to stay afloat?

 

Raise taxes, make life suck for a while, there is no other way. If you actually give a shit about your country, and are willing to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", pay your fuckin taxes, work hard, and get us back on top. Do NOT elect people who promise to pay you (by lowering your taxes or offering you a check), because tehy are not looking out for your best interests.

 

US citizens want no taxes, and children want to eat nothing but candy. Same mindset, same outcome.

 

<3

[Nitrousbird]

Raise taxes, make life suck for a while, there is no other way.

You don't even need to raise taxes. We have tons of tax income, but we spend way too much. Simply do huge cuts on a lot of social programs, stop giving handouts to coroporations, and that alone will put us well into the black, and help pay back some of this money. Paying more taxes is NOT the solution (because come dumbass will just find ways to blow that money too). Cutting back the gov't WILL help.

[HAOLE]

You don't even need to raise taxes. We have tons of tax income, but we spend way too much. Simply do huge cuts on a lot of social programs, stop giving handouts to coroporations, and that alone will put us well into the black, and help pay back some of this money. Paying more taxes is NOT the solution (because come dumbass will just find ways to blow that money too). Cutting back the gov't WILL help.

Can a Brother get a witness???? Amen