Bush saved 10 million lives

[Lost1888]

Free Speech. When you watch the TV and you see someone praising Bush , and it warms your heart, you should also realize you need to allow someone on the opposite end of the spectrum to voice their opinion, whatever it is. You can't have it your way, only. Well, you can, but you need to leave the country and live somewhere else to do it.

Bush supporters obviously don't like the criticism. Point taken. But to say someone isn't entitled to criticize the man any time they see fit? Criticize all you want! Your right we have freedom of speech and thank God for that! My issue is no one has any better solutions. Come on. Read these sentences again...you're mad because people are openly bashing him? Just the only thing we hear. No matter how much the man does right all you hear is the wrong. Gets old!Would you be mad if people were pouring on the praise? If the praise was unjustified, Sure. Like CNN, MSNBC and other news sources praising Obama before he has even done anything. There is no neutral. NO, you wouldn't. I guess you know me better than I know myself! And please don't tell me you would..I haven't seen a single post where Bush supporters were telling everyone to 'quit it' with the praises. Because there rarely are praises. People love doom and gloom. Thats what they want to hear. So that is what is publicized.

Love Bush or hate him, one of the basic building blocks of this country is free speech. You can say whatever you want..within reason. I can't go on TV and say I am gonna kill the Pres...for obvious reasons. But to criticize someone, no matter how loudly or frequently, is something WE ALL have a right to do as long as you live here. You may not like the words coming out of people's mouths, but they have a right to say them. Just like you have a right to not listen to them or present your own opinion.

As far as the UN goes....worthless. Team America nailed it.

As far as Africa goes...I'm not a fan of invading countries....BUT if people can sit back and say Iraq was justified (THE PRESIDENT INCLUDED) how can you sit back and say that what's going on in Africa doesn't warrant the same attention?

Mass murder and executions: Check

Weapons of mass destruction: Didn't find any in Iraq. Check

Genocide: Check

The BS link between Iraq and Al Qaeda: Wasn't there in Iraq, but AQ and extremism is ALIVE and WELL in Africa.

Power hungry, murderous dictators: Check

I'm confused. So many people complain how the US is the global police dpt. In my opinion more countries should step up and deal with these conflicts. We are dealing with the Middle East. The UN has taken on Africa and royally failed. And will continue to fail as I stated above!

I could go on for days about this topic but it's really not worth it. The whole matter is a no win situation! If we went to Africa instead of Iraq people would complain. If we sit back people will complain. When does the complaining end? No one looks at anything positive. I can see it is hard to be positive about something as horrific as war. But does the end justify the means? The only way you and I could know is if we finish what we start.

[kawi kid]

the un can be praised for the epic failure of anything it touches.

agreed!!!

[InyaAzz]

Round and round we go. I agree...this is a moot point, because most people choose to only look at things from their perspective. We all have our opinions..that's why we live here. That and chicken wings. Again, my opinion is that there are rarely any praises because of the scale of the negatives. Maybe that's human nature, like you said..but I guarantee you that if Obama makes mistakes on the same scale, the public and media will turn on him just as quick. This isn't 'personal'..it's not a Bush vs Obama or left vs right or Foxnews vs CNN. I'm pretty sure if Bush had been willing to admit a mistake, or even be a little more flexible when it came to making decisions, the public and the press would have been much easier on him. I would NEVER want his job..but at the same time I would never be as arrogant as he was and act like every decision I made was the correct one..or that I was incapable of making a bad decision. We as humans...on a whole..can understand when someone messes up. What we tend to dislike is someone who professes to be incapable of messing up. We're all fuck ups in some fashion. That's what being human is all about.

I agree with you about being the 'world police' and more countries standing up and taking action. That was my whole point..we sealed the nomination for ourselves when we went to Iraq. Ok..fine. If that's our role..then we need to be consistent. Africa needs to be addressed. If it's not our role, then stay the fuck out of Iraq. You can't have it one way, and then decide...eh..them damn Africans are on their own. That just smells of interference, only when it suits our purposes. We should either be all in, or all out. Do the job the right way. War is shitty...but if you go into war with a certain set of rules that the other side doesn't have...then you are setting yourself up for failure.

The UN and the Security Council are jokes. It's a big chess match between the permanent members to prevent the other countries from interfering in their interests. It may have served it's point at one time...but those times are long gone.

[Lost1888]

We will agree to disagree. OK!?

I'm fine with this conclusion. It would take days and a complete world history lesson to understand what all the situations are between the mid east, Africa and everywhere in between. I'm sure we would all learn a lot and I would enjoy it. But I would rather be riding or working on my bike.

[PrincessPratt]

Free Speech. When you watch the TV and you see someone praising Bush , and it warms your heart, you should also realize you need to allow someone on the opposite end of the spectrum to voice their opinion, whatever it is. You can't have it your way, only. Well, you can, but you need to leave the country and live somewhere else to do it.

Bush supporters obviously don't like the criticism. Point taken. But to say someone isn't entitled to criticize the man any time they see fit? Come on. Read these sentences again...you're mad because people are openly bashing him? Would you be mad if people were pouring on the praise? NO, you wouldn't. And please don't tell me you would..I haven't seen a single post where Bush supporters were telling everyone to 'quit it' with the praises.

Love Bush or hate him, one of the basic building blocks of this country is free speech. You can say whatever you want..within reason. I can't go on TV and say I am gonna kill the Pres...for obvious reasons. But to criticize someone, no matter how loudly or frequently, is something WE ALL have a right to do as long as you live here. You may not like the words coming out of people's mouths, but they have a right to say them. Just like you have a right to not listen to them or present your own opinion.

I didn't say I disagreed with free speech. If you read everything I wrote you'd see that. It is a blessing to be born into America. America is the greatest country on the face of this earth. What I was talking about is the blatant disrespect. I do NOT like Obama for many, many reasons yet I am not going to speak out negatively about him out of respect for the office he holds. Americans do go too far with what they say. It's not wrong to voice an opinion but it can be done the right way. When I am discussing indifferences with collegues I can tear someone to shreads with my words in a professional manner and then leave the person's presence with no amimosity . I'm never rude about it but when they leave the interaction they know exactly how I feel about them or what they are doing. Today at work a couple of people were discussing their dislikes of Bush and they kept telling me I was wrong and became somewhat belligerent with me. They let their emotions overtake their words instead of discussing the situation like adults. I never once rose my voice but was able to get my point across and move on. There is an art to confrontation.....and believe me it took me many a years to conquer that. Yes I'm rambling. I'm done now!

[Disclaimer]

You've been forewarned

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" ~George Santayana

8 Years of Bush in 8 Minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vTFesgMkzk

Bush's Final Approval Rating: 22 Percent

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/16/opinion/polls/main4728399.shtml?tag=topHome;topStories

[Disclaimer]

I do NOT like Obama for many, many reasons yet I am not going to speak out negatively about him out of respect for the office he holds.

I'm intrigued as to the reasoning behind this. How do you voice your concerns? How do you give feedback, if you're not going to speak out negatively? How is withholding your negative opinions respectful to the office?

I hope you'll answer these questions in a professional manner. Even if you don't, I'll still hold no animosity toward you.

[Lost1888]

You've been forewarned

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" ~George Santayana

8 Years of Bush in 8 Minutes

YouTube - 8 Years Of Bush in 8 Minutes! ~Olbermann

Bush's Final Approval Rating: 22 Percent

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/16/opinion/polls/main4728399.shtml?tag=topHome;topStories

Olbermann =

[Disclaimer]

Olbermann =

Care to say why? A lot of people don't like Olbermann, but some of those people are the same ones that love O'Reilly and Limbaugh. What about him in particular rubs you the wrong way?

[Lost1888]

Care to say why? A lot of people don't like Olbermann, but some of those people are the same ones that love O'Reilly and Limbaugh. What about him in particular rubs you the wrong way?

He's a communist! He even admits he grew up as a "teenage commie" Has stated on his show the American soldiers have died in vain. WTF tell that to all the families of the soldiers. I have friends that have come home from the war in Iraq and Afganistan. They feel as though they are fighting for a greater good. It's hard for us sheltered Americans to understand what other people in other countries go through just to put food on their table or in all reality their floor.

He also has to be the most negative news commentator I have ever listened to. That's just to start. How much do you want me to elaborate my thoughts of this entertainer that is fooling people to believe he is a journalist?

I undertand you may not agree with me. Thats fine you are absolutely entitled to that. But in all reality this conversation is not going to go anywhere. I have been debating this with so many people as of late and they get all the info they have from commentary. Like what Keith Olbermann conciders journalism.

[Disclaimer]

Personally, I'm indifferent to who feeds me my news as long as it's factual and can be corroborated with other (unbiased) sources. I just like to get other peoples' thoughts and opinions on newscasters and why they feel the way they do.

Olbermann does interject his opinions a lot, but there is some hard fast evidence for which he bases it on...it's hard to argue with numbers, but I can see how off-putting it is to listen to when he sometimes draws premature conclusions on that information.

I don't know what to tell you about the negativity... I mean, if the news is negative, shouldn't it be reported nonetheless? If the gov't or command-in-chief is doing a crappy job, I'd like to know about it instead of reading and hearing everything through rose-colored glasses. If problems and missteps aren't identified, then they're never fixed.

What reporters do you consider to have GOOD journalism credentials and why?

[PrincessPratt]

WTF tell that to all the families of the soldiers. I have friends that have come home from the war in Iraq and Afganistan.

I think it's very easy for people who haven't had to put their life on the line to judge things they don't know and have not had to endure themselves. My brother spend 2 years over in Iraq. Praise God that he came home alive and in one piece. The average American has not seen what truly goes on over in those areas. My brother has seen things that we and the media will never understand unless we saw it first hand. My brother had to kill young children that had bombs strapped to their back that got too close to American check points and then dig a grave for them. He was shot over there and had granades hit his hum v (don't know if that's what the trucks are actually called). Had he come home in a casket like many other fallen soldiers I would NEVER say that he gave his life in vain. He would still be my hero like his is now. My brother believes in democracy, freedom, and what he was fighting for. He still stands behind Bush's decision to go over there. Many, many soldiers still do. I can tell u that the media does NOT give an accurate portrayal of what actually goes on over there. Maybe if you could see the faces of those that were once in bondage and now able to live a life of freedom without the fear of death you'd have a difference perspective. Unfortunately the Nicky that went over to Iraq is not the same Nicky that came home but he continues to work through it. Thank God there are people that are willing to fight for what they believe all humans should have regardless of their American citizenship. All people deserve to be free. Should we be the policeman of the middle east? That's a debate I'm not getting into but I will not allow someone to say my brother's actions were futile. He is my hero!!!

[Lost1888]

I think it's very easy for people who haven't had to put their life on the line to judge things they don't know and have not had to endure themselves. My brother spend 2 years over in Iraq. Praise God that he came home alive and in one piece. The average American has not seen what truly goes on over in those areas. My brother has seen things that we and the media will never understand unless we saw it first hand. My brother had to kill young children that had bombs strapped to their back that got too close to American check points and then dig a grave for them. He was shot over there and had granades hit his hum v (don't know if that's what the trucks are actually called). Had he come home in a casket like many other fallen soldiers I would NEVER say that he gave his life in vain. He would still be my hero like his is now. My brother believes in democracy, freedom, and what he was fighting for. He still stands behind Bush's decision to go over there. Many, many soldiers still do. I can tell u that the media does NOT give an accurate portrayal of what actually goes on over there. Maybe if you could see the faces of those that were once in bondage and now able to live a life of freedom without the fear of death you'd have a difference perspective. Unfortunately the Nicky that went over to Iraq is not the same Nicky that came home but he continues to work through it. Thank God there are people that are willing to fight for what they believe all humans should have regardless of their American citizenship. All people deserve to be free. Should we be the policeman of the middle east? That's a debate I'm not getting into but I will not allow someone to say my brother's actions were futile. He is my hero!!!

Just to make sure! I DO NOT AND HAVE NEVER NO WILL NEVER believe any of our soldiers died in vain!!!!! I was speaking in reference to Keith Olberman.

Please give your brother a BIG THANK YOU for his great service, commitment, and SACRIFICE for us!!!!

[Lost1888]

Personally, I'm indifferent to who feeds me my news as long as it's factual and can be corroborated with other (unbiased) sources. I just like to get other peoples' thoughts and opinions on newscasters and why they feel the way they do.

Olbermann does interject his opinions a lot, but there is some hard fast evidence for which he bases it on...it's hard to argue with numbers, but I can see how off-putting it is to listen to when he sometimes draws premature conclusions on that information.

I don't know what to tell you about the negativity... I mean, if the news is negative, shouldn't it be reported nonetheless? If the gov't or command-in-chief is doing a crappy job, I'd like to know about it instead of reading and hearing everything through rose-colored glasses. If problems and missteps aren't identified, then they're never fixed.

What reporters do you consider to have GOOD journalism credentials and why?

I mostly listen to NPR and Michael Medved. As for TV, I try to only watch the shows that are more news focused not political commentary. For example Headline News (CNN), Local News ( 19 Action News and Fox), Fox and friends (FNC), America's newsroom (FNC), Special Report (FNC) and my favorites C-Span and C-Span 2. No Joke!. Useally after 7:00 pm I avoid the news because of the comentary, conservitive or liberal. Sometimes I will surf through them all but rarely! If I was to watch commentary it would be Dave Ramsey (witch is on right now), Sean Hannity, or Glen Beck. Even with these shows I might tune in once a month. I am an obvious conservitive so they would fit more to what I would want to listen to. Even they go on their tangents! But nowhere near as negative of an attitude as Olbermann.

I think there is a difference between Journalism and Political Commentary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism

Journalism is the craft of conveying news, descriptive material and comment via a widening spectrum of media. These include newspapers, magazines, radio and television, the internet and, more recently, the cellphone. Journalists—be they writers, editors or photographers; broadcast presenters or producers—serve as the chief purveyors of information and opinion in contemporary mass society. "News is what the consensus of journalists determines it to be." [1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commentary

Political criticism (also referred to as political commentary or political discussion) is criticism that is specific of or relevant to politics, including policies, politicians, political parties, and types of government.

[Disclaimer]

I can tell by you have a conservative slant by where you get your news (Fox), and that's fine as long as your cognizant that it's slanted. The other sources you listed seem relatively unbiased to me (CNN, CSPAN).

Just as an FYI, since you're new(er) - I admittedly tend to slant liberal / Dem, except I'm more Libertarian than anything (if you hadn't already picked that out) and I don't follow party lines. I also tend to be devil's advocate on things (even if I agree with you) for numerous reasons, but I look forward to having a few healthy, open-minded debates with you. Just don't take anything personal.

You use links and cite sources in most of your posts? This could get fun in 4 years.

[Lost1888]

I can tell by you have a conservative slant by where you get your news (Fox), and that's fine as long as your cognizant that it's slanted. The other sources you listed seem relatively unbiased to me (CNN, CSPAN).

Just as an FYI, since you're new(er) - I admittedly tend to slant liberal / Dem, except I'm more Libertarian than anything (if you hadn't already picked that out) and I don't follow party lines. I also tend to be devil's advocate on things (even if I agree with you) for numerous reasons, but I look forward to having a few healthy, open-minded debates with you. Just don't take anything personal.

You use links and cite sources in most of your posts? This could get fun in 4 years.

You have every right to believe, judge and inquire the facts how you see fit. You will not offend me. The only way in my opinion to know the facts is to look into what is stated through many different points of view and make a intelligent decision on your convictions. My fear is to become close mined like so many that I try to have conversations with. So many people like to voice their views and opinions but don't give anyone else the time of day. So Yes it is nice to hear your view on things and have a open debate with out prejudice. I'm not great at trying to get my views or points across in writing so bear with me. Normally I don't tend to voice my opinion about politics, religion, moral or ethical matters, especially on forums. But I hate to hear people constantly be negative about these topics. We live in a wonderful country that we are able (in most cases) to openly debate and hear the views of all people without the risk of being hung or burned at the stake. We should take advantage of it!

“The greatest power that a person possesses is the power to choose.” J. Martin Kohe