thorne Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 There were 42 failed attempts to kill Hitler…. If there is a God seated on his Royal Throne in Heaven, why did he not let [one of them succeed]? Here are three possible answers: God couldn’t do anything about Hitler. But if that’s true, what kind of God is he? And if he can’t do anything about anything, why pray or worship him?God could do something about Hitler, but he chose not to. In other words, he would be the most evil being imaginable. If a man could easily stop the Nazis without any innocent deaths, but chose not to, wouldn’t he be evil?God doesn’t exist. I’ll go with #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Rick won't post in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Hitler was a smart man, contrary to popular belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted December 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 That don't change anything. Smart or not he murdered many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Well that goes back to the whole thing of why God allows any evil to exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 :lurk: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 That don't change anything. Smart or not he murdered many. You spoke of the 42 attempts on his life, he out smarted those. There's no argument on his other actions. I've heard this debate a million times, and if you know the Christian faith any bit, it all stems from Free Will aka back to the Garden of Eden. Just pointing out, not debating on my end, that's your belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Honestly, I really don't want to get into an argument with anyone, but I just wanted to share my feelings on this. Over the summer my dad went into the hospital with horrible chest pains. Long story short the doctors did a heart cath. and found a 99.9% blockage. They then ran hundreds of tests on his heart. Every doctor at the hospital stood there in disbelief. He had a 99.9% blockage, with 0 damage to his heart. The doctors all said that is medically impossible. His case is now a case study for heart doctors across the country, trying to figure out how in the world he had no heart damage. Some of you may think that there is no God, but I will tell you, from the things I have been through, either there are random magical miracles, or there is a God. You choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supldys Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 There were 42 failed attempts to kill Hitler…. If there is a God seated on his Royal Throne in Heaven, why did he not let [one of them succeed]? Here are three possible answers: God couldn’t do anything about Hitler. But if that’s true, what kind of God is he? And if he can’t do anything about anything, why pray or worship him?God could do something about Hitler, but he chose not to. In other words, he would be the most evil being imaginable. If a man could easily stop the Nazis without any innocent deaths, but chose not to, wouldn’t he be evil?God doesn’t exist. I’ll go with #3. For being so anti-religion anti-christian, you sure do bring it up a lot. Werent you the one that complained about Christians always trying to push their faith down your throat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 There were 42 failed attempts to kill Hitler…. If there is a God seated on his Royal Throne in Heaven, why did he not let [one of them succeed]? Here are three possible answers: God couldn’t do anything about Hitler. But if that’s true, what kind of God is he? And if he can’t do anything about anything, why pray or worship him?God could do something about Hitler, but he chose not to. In other words, he would be the most evil being imaginable. If a man could easily stop the Nazis without any innocent deaths, but chose not to, wouldn’t he be evil?God doesn’t exist. I’ll go with #3. What happened to you being all about God? -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted December 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 RAndom magic . If god did it for one why not everyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 RAndom magic . If god did it for one why not everyone? Because you are a very bad person Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 RAndom magic . If god did it for one why not everyone? believing in random magic sounds crazier than believing in a higher being. Everything happens for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supldys Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 RAndom magic . If god did it for one why not everyone? because its easy to live a good life when everything is handed to you. The test is whether you can still live a good life having to work for everything. Sometimes God lends a hand, and sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes people deserve help, and sometimes they dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Its a simple matter of probability. "Miracles" happen not because some of us are gods special little guys, but because mathematically, they had to happen to someone. Of course there are probabilities so low we can almost call them "impossible", such as a magical space unicorn that orbits Saturn and rides the rings, while dictating the course and events of all of humanity. Probability low, but that's basically the idea of most religious deities, so I should start a cult. Also "free will" can't exist if some omnipotent being already knows what you're going to do, if you could defy his will he wouldn't be omnipotent would he ? Thus if you cannot deviate from "his" design, than you have no "choice". I forsee this thread going nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Also "free will" can't exist if some omnipotent being already knows what you're going to do, if you could defy his will he wouldn't be omnipotent would he ? There it is. +100000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Also "free will" can't exist if some omnipotent being already knows what you're going to do, if you could defy his will he wouldn't be omnipotent would he ? Thus if you cannot deviate from "his" design, than you have no "choice". Actually, free will can exist. You always have an option, to do something or not do something. His plan is to present you with 2 options, of course one option always being considered "right" and the other "wrong". We as humans are imperfect and can always choose to make the wrong decision. It's quite simple actually and quite the common explanation in progressive Christian churches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 There were 42 failed attempts to kill Hitler…. If there is a God seated on his Royal Throne in Heaven, why did he not let [one of them succeed]? Here are three possible answers: God couldn’t do anything about Hitler. But if that’s true, what kind of God is he? And if he can’t do anything about anything, why pray or worship him?God could do something about Hitler, but he chose not to. In other words, he would be the most evil being imaginable. If a man could easily stop the Nazis without any innocent deaths, but chose not to, wouldn’t he be evil?God doesn’t exist. I’ll go with #3. I'll post for Rick. "Because god has a plan." or "Everything for a reason, etc, etc." My smartass post: Hitler is smarter than Christians and/or god. A real post: And this one causes contention amongst Christians - Because god supposedly allows free will. Whether it be slaughtering Jews, eating a whole pint of ice cream, or helping the homeless. Your judgement comes later by Him. (Ahem, not now, by Christians or what I like to call "Holier than thou's" or any other "believer", whatever faith you may have.) Now this, of course, opens a whole can of worms dealing with those who'd believe that God still grants "miracles", has an effect on who wins a war or sports game, lives or dies, listens to prayer, etc. Sorry, Christians, you gotta pick one or the other. The Man has a hand in it all or not at all. Actually, Im so curious on the subject and the opinions of others, I may actually start a thread about it. An excuse for Christians is that you cannot understand or know all of god's ways or will. But, I find that excuse is normally used when it's convenient and has a tendency to bring to light many religious followers bigotries. Myself, as an agnostic, will tell you, "Who the fuck knows?". Those who are religious should agree. I mean, if you follow your own teachings. Doesn't god work in mysterious ways? So, in conclusion, nobody who comes in here should know the answer. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 I forsee this thread going nowhere. Does a Thorne thread ever go anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Its a simple matter of probability. "Miracles" happen not because some of us are gods special little guys, but because mathematically, they had to happen to someone. Of course there are probabilities so low we can almost call them "impossible", such as a magical space unicorn that orbits Saturn and rides the rings, while dictating the course and events of all of humanity. Probability low, but that's basically the idea of most religious deities, so I should start a cult. Also "free will" can't exist if some omnipotent being already knows what you're going to do, if you could defy his will he wouldn't be omnipotent would he ? Thus if you cannot deviate from "his" design, than you have no "choice". I forsee this thread going nowhere. Exactly, there are so many contradictions, etc. Your last statement almost mirrors my last statement from my previous post. Due to so many contradictions, this thread will go nowhere. Well, circles, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 ^ nowhere in the bible does "string theory" come up. That's revisionist christianity for ya though, No, if "god" already knows what you're going to do than "that's that". In the bible it does talk of god being in the past, present, and future though, hinting further at him already knowing what you're going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Honestly, I really don't want to get into an argument with anyone, but I just wanted to share my feelings on this. Over the summer my dad went into the hospital with horrible chest pains. Long story short the doctors did a heart cath. and found a 99.9% blockage. They then ran hundreds of tests on his heart. Every doctor at the hospital stood there in disbelief. He had a 99.9% blockage, with 0 damage to his heart. The doctors all said that is medically impossible. His case is now a case study for heart doctors across the country, trying to figure out how in the world he had no heart damage. Some of you may think that there is no God, but I will tell you, from the things I have been through, either there are random magical miracles, or there is a God. You choose. So, what are you saying? Magic or miracle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 In the bible it does talk of god being in the past, present, and future though, hinting further at him already knowing what you're going to do. So where does that leave out you making the choice between 2 things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 If a fat chick falls in the woods, do the trees laugh? ??? KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 If a fat chick falls in the woods, do the trees laugh? ??? KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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