Guest Hal Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 We're just trying to help you, queen of battle. Fixing a problem and finding the solution are two different things - just keep that in mind before you spend anything. What if the rings weren't the source of the excess blow-by? What if the the compressor seal(s) are leaking pressure through the oil return into the crankcase? Brian did mention some blue smoke, an early sign of oil in the exhaust. I think calling "witch" without, at minimum, a compression check isn't a very logical idea. Nate, the biggest issue was the space we were trying to do diagnostics in. I will run the real diagnostics when it gets to the garage so we can be sure what needs done. I'm almost positive it's the rings but, I'm not willing to bet Dover's money and my time on almost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fist302 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Glad to hear you are considering keeping the cobra! That car is O-mazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I wouldn't put anything together without a vacuum pump, crank windage is ftl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I wouldn't put anything together without a vacuum pump, crank windage is ftl. Had a customer with a big block Gran Torino with a vacuum pump. Kept losing motors at the big end of the track. Come to find out the vacuum pump was starving the oil pump pick up. Ditched the vacuum pump and no more issues. I am aware of the number of applications using a vacuum pump. However I do not think one is need in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 what's in the mystery box? is it a boat? a boats a boat but the mystery box could be anything, it could even be a boat. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Had a customer with a big block Gran Torino with a vacuum pump. Kept losing motors at the big end of the track. Come to find out the vacuum pump was starving the oil pump pick up. Ditched the vacuum pump and no more issues. I am aware of the number of applications using a vacuum pump. However I do not think one is need in this situation. Sounds like too much vacuum lol, I never intended on saying it was necessary for dovers application. Just food for thought? I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vnmous04 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 If there was no damage to the plug -- what was the root cause of the ring failure? I don't think many people will buy "boost" as the answer. I would think that a certain somebody that owned the car before him ragged on it pretty hard and I believe I've heard something about that same guy was trying to spray nitrous but they couldnt get it right. I am going to guess that it was a couple of lean conditions. Who knows. Dover may have had a lean condition on that cyl. All I know is that like most of us think the rings are gone. But we need to get it to a proper garage (thanks Hal) and really start to find out what happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vnmous04 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 We're just trying to help you, queen of battle. Fixing a problem and finding the solution are two different things - just keep that in mind before you spend anything. What if the rings weren't the source of the excess blow-by? What if the the compressor seal(s) are leaking pressure through the oil return into the crankcase? Brian did mention some blue smoke, an early sign of oil in the exhaust. I think calling "witch" without, at minimum, a compression check isn't a very logical idea. Sounds like it would still have bad rings All of this will be done before we pull the motor out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I wouldn't put anything together without a vacuum pump, crank windage is ftl. never heard of a vacuum pump, and none of the big hp terminator guys are running one to my knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 never heard of a vacuum pump, and none of the big hp terminator guys are running one to my knowledge Those motors prolly have a better design than the old school technology I deal with. All it does is remove the air in the crankcase caused by the rotating assembly spinning. For my motor it promotes better oil control and sealing of the rings. Plus it looks sweet as hell sitting on the front of the motor. Form and function ftw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbutera2112 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 vacuum pumps are kinda pricey...hope i dont end up needing one on the 460 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Let me step back and say, if this were any other motor, most in this thread would offer our condolences and wish Dover well. While not bulletproof, these engines are strong. Don't take anything posted as an attack towards any of your skill sets. The horse looks like it is walking in front of the carriage again, let us know how everything turns out. Since this is a turbo build, the source of the crankcase vacuum would have to be sourced on the intake side, pre-turbo, or post turbo, exhaust. Not only that, but both methods have to be routed to create a venturi effect, because of minimal to no vacuum between the filter and turbo inlet / exhaust track (usually includes a 1 way valve). The caveat, in the intake method, can be the contamination of the MAF with oil, which is bad, mkayyyyyyyyyy. On the other hand, sending oil into the exhaust doesn't smell/look pretty either -- at least it will take longer to rust. If it becomes a problem you could use an electric pump from the LT1 motors, on a Hobbs switch to pull vacuum when in boost. They usually provide about 2" of vacuum -- not much to help with HP, but you won't have any oil problems. If plumbed with a catch can that’s sump is plumbed to oil dipstick spout to allow drain back, you have a care free, closed loop system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisnuz Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Let me step back and say, if this were any other motor, most in this thread would offer our condolences and wish Dover well. While not bulletproof, these engines are strong. Don't take anything posted as an attack towards any of your skill sets. The horse looks like it is walking in front of the carriage again, let us know how everything turns out. Since this is a turbo build, the source of the crankcase vacuum would have to be sourced on the intake side, pre-turbo, or post turbo, exhaust. Not only that, but both methods have to be routed to create a venturi effect, because of minimal to no vacuum between the filter and turbo inlet / exhaust track (usually includes a 1 way valve). The caveat, in the intake method, can be the contamination of the MAF with oil, which is bad, mkayyyyyyyyyy. On the other hand, sending oil into the exhaust doesn't smell/look pretty either -- at least it will take longer to rust. If it becomes a problem you could use an electric pump from the LT1 motors, on a Hobbs switch to pull vacuum when in boost. They usually provide about 2" of vacuum -- not much to help with HP, but you won't have any oil problems. If plumbed with a catch can that’s sump is plumbed to oil dipstick spout to allow drain back, you have a care free, closed loop system. Wow have you ever installed a system?Its pretty simple stuff.Mechanical is the only way to go IMO I pull about 5 inches and have seen only benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisnuz Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Had a customer with a big block Gran Torino with a vacuum pump. Kept losing motors at the big end of the track. Come to find out the vacuum pump was starving the oil pump pick up. Ditched the vacuum pump and no more issues. I am aware of the number of applications using a vacuum pump. However I do not think one is need in this situation. Operator error. I guess you could suck it dry if you tried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k2gt Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Vacuum or lack of didn't cause the failure. I bet the ring lands collapsed and or broke. I had lots of smoke coming from my breather, but right after the failure it was put on the trailer. My catch can did have oil in it. Most of the time it doesn't have any. Here is a pic of the bad piston in the block. You can see where it burned right into the cylinder wall. http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/y2k2gt/100_3628.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Wow have you ever installed a system?Its pretty simple stuff.Mechanical is the only way to go IMO I pull about 5 inches and have seen only benefits. I have on a SB2.2, but chances are you'll have to give up something, whether it's space or a component on 03/04. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Bird Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sry to hear man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Vacuum or lack of didn't cause the failure. I bet the ring lands collapsed and or broke. I had lots of smoke coming from my breather, but right after the failure it was put on the trailer. My catch can did have oil in it. Most of the time it doesn't have any. Here is a pic of the bad piston in the block. You can see where it burned right into the cylinder wall. http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/y2k2gt/100_3628.jpg "But officer, I didn't abuse my engine. It fell down the stairs while I was drinking." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comebackkid Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sorry to hear about your motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dover Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 fug it, it'll be back in action shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fist302 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 fug it, it'll be back in action shortly. Hell yeah! http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv346/wpiner88/hellyeah_.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 fug it, it'll be back in action shortly. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn208/Slim_Laurence/Bill_Ted_Excellent.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar231 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 fug it, it'll be back in action shortly. Fuck yeah! Thats the right attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Vacuum or lack of didn't cause the failure. I bet the ring lands collapsed and or broke. I had lots of smoke coming from my breather, but right after the failure it was put on the trailer. My catch can did have oil in it. Most of the time it doesn't have any. Here is a pic of the bad piston in the block. You can see where it burned right into the cylinder wall. http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/y2k2gt/100_3628.jpg There is a good amount of knock scaring on that piston as well, likley cracked the ringland, them melted it all down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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