Trouble Maker Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Remember Toyota's massive 3.8 million unit unintended acceleration recall that was attributed to pesky floor mats? It appears defective floor mats doesn't tell the whole story, as the Department of Transportation and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration declared in a statement that "this (unintended acceleration) matter is not closed," adding "removal of the floor mats is simply an interim measure, not a remedy of the underlying defect in the vehicles." Up to 2,000 Toyota customers claim to have experienced a sudden surge of acceleration, and some reportedly told ABC News that they didn't even have the recalled floor mats in their vehicles. Even more disturbing are the results of an ABC News investigation that reportedly found "hundreds" of accidents and up to 16 deaths as a result of unintended acceleration. Four of those deaths occurred in August when an off-duty California Highway Patrol Officer, traveling with his wife, daughter and brother in-law, were killed after their Lexus accelerated uncontrollably. The driver's brother in-law called 911 and said that the brakes didn't work before the vehicle reached an intersection, struck another car, went into a ditch and caught fire. Some Toyota owners feel there is an electronic glitch in the system that controls the throttle and the ABC report shows that there is some anecdotal evidence which illustrates that incidents rose after the system was put into place in 2002, but so far, NHTSA has found no evidence to support those claims after six investigations. ABC News caught up with Toyota Vice President Yukitoshi Funo (pictured second from left) and asked him if Toyota was covering anything up. Funo replied "It is not part of the Toyota culture and Toyota way to cover up anything," adding that the Japanese automaker is working with NHTSA to come up with an agreement on how to proceed going forward. If you own a Toyota or Lexus and you are concerned about this issue, it appears that there is little that will be done in the short term other than tie down or remove the floor mats. If you do experience the acceleration issue, Consumer Reports suggests shifting your vehicle into neutral, pressing the brake and holding it down in an effort to bring your vehicle to a stop. This post and video from CR demonstrates how to effectively resolve the situation, and the risks of pumping the brakes. Turning off your vehicle could be a bad idea, as turning off the engine will also result in the loss of power steering and power brakes. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/06/report-toyota-execs-deny-cover-up-after-feds-rebuke-automaker-o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl1647545492 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 The floor mat defense does not pass the sniff test imo,we will hear of the cover up and Toyota et al. will be in deep %hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar231 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm really interested to know what toyota is going to do about this since my mom drives a '09 corolla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Jesus, a tiny computer change could have saved all of this BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 And this is what happens when the auto makers go to everything-electronic. Seriously, whats the benefit of having electronic throttle control? Fucking cables have been working fine for a century now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 And this is what happens when the auto makers go to everything-electronic. Seriously, whats the benefit of having electronic throttle control? Fucking cables have been working fine for a century now. Is this a serious post ? By this logic we should ditch fuel injection as well. Do some research seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye1647545503 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 At least when a throttle cable fails the spring closes the throttle and you are just left idling down the road not speeding to your death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 At least when a throttle cable fails the spring closes the throttle and you are just left idling down the road not speeding to your death. EPC doesn't just stick open fyi. The latent problem is they failed to incorporate a logic failsafe. IE= If the driver is mashing both the accelerator & brake something is obviously wrong and it should cut power immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar231 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Fucking cables have been working fine for a century now. This. At least when a throttle cable fails the spring closes the throttle and you are just left idling down the road not speeding to your death. This. EPC doesn't just stick open fyi. The latent problem is they failed to incorporate a logic failsafe. IE= If the driver is mashing both the accelerator & brake something is obviously wrong and it should cut power immediately. This too. Do the newer ford/chevys have a failsafe? They mentioned European cars, but what about domestics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Is this a serious post ? By this logic we should ditch fuel injection as well. Do some research seriously. I've never read of someones fuel injection going nuts and auto accelerating someones vehicle to their death. Since you sound so know-all about electronic control, why don't you save us the time of research and backup what you are inferring that you know and we don't. What does EPC and fly-by-wire, and all the other electronic throttle controls do for us other than add a middle-man of control between the user and the throttle? Obviously adding an uncontrollable complex failure point inline of what used to be direct control is working well for Toyota. Does it give us more power? more gas mileage? super strength? I find it gives me delayed down shifts, delayed acceleration from a stop and generally less feel of control of the acceleration over a simple cable. That's all the real world research I need to know. I don't need some triple degree, Harvard educated, black belt wearing, Chuck Norris look alike to tell me how great something they invented so they could make their salary that year and over complicate my vehicle all in the quest of making driving less controlled by me and more controlled by a black box of electronic FAIL. Maybe you do though. The latent problem is they failed to incorporate a logic failsafe. And that proves my electronic FAIL point. If I were to die because of a throttle control issue, I wan't to die because I neglected to take care of my throttle cable, linkage, peddel etc and it be my own fault. Not because someone left out some very important fail safe code structure, or a diode popped on an circuit board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinergi Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I've never read of someones fuel injection going nuts and auto accelerating someones vehicle to their death. Since you sound so know-all about electronic control, why don't you save us the time of research and backup what you are inferring that you know and we don't. What does EPC and fly-by-wire, and all the other electronic throttle controls do for us other than add a middle-man of control between the user and the throttle? Obviously adding an uncontrollable complex failure point inline of what used to be direct control is working well for Toyota. Does it give us more power? more gas mileage? super strength? I find it gives me delayed down shifts, delayed acceleration from a stop and generally less feel of control of the acceleration over a simple cable. That's all the real world research I need to know. I don't need some triple degree, Harvard educated, black belt wearing, Chuck Norris look alike to tell me how great something they invented so they could make their salary that year and over complicate my vehicle all in the quest of making driving less controlled by me and more controlled by a black box of electronic FAIL. Maybe you do though. And that proves my electronic FAIL point. Quoted for brilliance, sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I've never read of someones fuel injection going nuts and auto accelerating someones vehicle to their death. Since you sound so know-all about electronic control, why don't you save us the time of research and backup what you are inferring that you know and we don't. What does EPC and fly-by-wire, and all the other electronic throttle controls do for us other than add a middle-man of control between the user and the throttle? Obviously adding an uncontrollable complex failure point inline of what used to be direct control is working well for Toyota. Does it give us more power? more gas mileage? super strength? I find it gives me delayed down shifts, delayed acceleration from a stop and generally less feel of control of the acceleration over a simple cable. That's all the real world research I need to know. I don't need some triple degree, Harvard educated, black belt wearing, Chuck Norris look alike to tell me how great something they invented so they could make their salary that year and over complicate my vehicle all in the quest of making driving less controlled by me and more controlled by a black box of electronic FAIL. Maybe you do though. And that proves my electronic FAIL point. If I were to die because of a throttle control issue, I wan't to die because I neglected to take care of my throttle cable, linkage, peddel etc and it be my own fault. Not because someone left out some very important fail safe code structure, or a diode popped on an electronic board. Such a compelling argument. You should take this amazingly logic to every, and I mean EVERY current auto maker on the planet, seeing as they have all adopted epc/dbw technology, most for the better part of a decade. I am hoping you, or anyone can at some point show a EPC/DBW fault causing an accident or death. DBW, without failsafes is still no more dangerous than a throttle cable. If a mat gets stuck on a throttle cable car the throttle sticks at 100% and you are screwed. If a mat gets stuck on a DBW car without failsafes, the throttle sticks at 100% and you are screwed. The amount of technology phobia around here still amazes me. You should get rid of your cell phone ASAP. DBW allows for extensive safety enhancements to the ESP programming of vehicles which has saved many lives over the past 10+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 EPC doesn't just stick open fyi. The latent problem is they failed to incorporate a logic failsafe. IE= If the driver is mashing both the accelerator & brake something is obviously wrong and it should cut power immediately. well lets see that makes it ford> toyota so the list continues ford>dodge ford>gm ford>toyota btw, some kias(delco crap) had issues with the processors and the gas pedal and TB assm's. just because its not blogged on, doesnt mean it dont happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 DBW is awesome for smothing out shitty drivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Is this a serious post ? By this logic we should ditch fuel injection as well. Do some research seriously. There are SO many benifits to TBW (throttel by wire). We couldn't do anything but a half assed TCS without it. ... waiting for more idiotic comments about how electronic nannies like TCS make cars worse to drive and how they can drive better with them off. On a serious note to follow up Jone's post, cars with ESC/ESP/VSA are much more safe than cars without it. If you want to talk about this more we can, just going to state it for now. There's a reason from a cost/benifit analysis on saved lives of cars with ESC compared to without ESC that NHTSA went forward with requiring all cars to have ESC. All of you techno hating car drivers better buy your non-ESC equiped cars now before than all must have it in 2012. There's NO proof or suggestion from that article (it's the only one I've read) about what they think is happening or than they are going to do a more deep investigation. We'll see what comes of that and if it's truly a logic issue or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 In theory, drive by wire allows the computer to override non-driving idiots and keep them from losing control. As for traditional cable throttles, I've had more than one car get a stuck gas peddle. Usually kicking it would pop it loose. Apparently, neutral is a foreign concept for Prius owners, they kinda deserve to wreck in a fiery crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excell Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 FWIW I have ETC in my Trailblazer, on the freeway if you try and brake + WOT you will stop. It will override the pedal input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I hate toyota and especially lexus. Good for them I guess for taking advantage of people who are willing to spend more money for a camry with a different badge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Well, after being part of the rav forums, ti seems nobody there is having this problem. This isn't just a Toyota issue. This whole thing is ridiculous to me, at this point. Not to mention, the article does nothing but make assumptions, and what seem to be biased assumptions, at that. I couldn't imagine them trying to cover something up and I believe they wouldn't take such a chance. The following coverup would cost them MUCH more than addressing the issue properly. And that is how every article i've read on this situation has gone. I want facts, not bullshit. I hate toyota and especially lexus. Good for them I guess for taking advantage of people who are willing to spend more money for a camry with a different badge. Really? Coming from an Audi owner? I'm sure not even you can miss why Im laughing at this. And fyi, nothing could beat the price we found our brand new rav4 for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I hate toyota and especially lexus. Good for them I guess for taking advantage of people who are willing to spend more money for a camry with a different badge. Haha, it's true. You know it's sad when they're reaching and exceeding the price point of the cars they were supposed to be cheaper alternatives to years ago. FAIL. I hope the whole company goes under, or at least nears it. You know, Audi has been through this an it nearly killed them. Maybe Toyota should ask for some pointers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Really? Coming from an Audi owner? I'm sure not even you can miss why Im laughing at this. No please inform me? The closest audi has gone to doing this was selling the B7 a4 (b8 is the new model) as a SEAT for LESS money. That is the only time they took the exact car and sold it as something else. Yes they share chassis, but the car itself is different. Put my car next to a passat from the same year. I bet you would have never guessed its the same chassis, because thats the only thing it shares. Now take a lexus es330 and put it next to a camry...only thing thats different is the badges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm really interested to know what toyota is going to do about this since my mom drives a '09 corolla. I bet you are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Really? Coming from an Audi owner? I'm sure not even you can miss why Im laughing at this. Audi's are great as long as you aren't to stuck on having working power windows/locks/coil packs. :bangbang: Also, if you think a new Lexus ES and a new Camry are the same you have probably don't have much real-life experience with the cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Audi's are great as long as you aren't to stuck on having working power windows/locks/coil packs. :bangbang: Coilpacks are over rated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Coilpacks are over rated You just literally made me cough up my coffee from laughter. Anybody who says Audi owners aren't witty is wayyyy wrong, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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