STEVE-O Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I still say there must be a reason that drag racers dont have airbags and sometimes switch from fi to a carb... The fewer electronics on a car the less things can go wrong.. I much rather have a full cage and a harness over every pannel in my car having a airbag built into it.. Lets see what toyota does... hopefully there will jsut be a recall to get the computer reflashed and thats that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I still say there must be a reason that drag racers dont have airbags and sometimes switch from fi to a carb... Drag racing consists mostly of billies. Billies dont know what a computer is. But once you start getting really fast, and require a metric shit ton of fuel, you would need fuel injectors the size of water bottles, which i dont think they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Correct. I'm not entirely sold on DBW. I'll take a throttle cable in any situation except cruise control. How would people feel about having guns with trigger-by-wire? That's EXACTLY what I though. Boo friggin ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Correct. I'm not entirely sold on DBW. I'll take a throttle cable in any situation except cruise control. How would people feel about having guns with trigger-by-wire? That's EXACTLY what I though. Boo friggin ya! :gtfo: Youre just mad that your ancient audi 100 doesnt have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 :gtfo: Youre just mad that your ancient audi 100 doesnt have it. yeah, what did they blame it on in Audi's case again? At least now they kinda have a plausible scapegoat. And our Audi 100 got 30mpg, WITHOUT dbw, so suck it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 At least when a throttle cable fails the spring closes the throttle and you are just left idling down the road not speeding to your death. Really? You've never heard of a throttle cable sticking/binding? All of you techno hating car drivers better buy your non-ESC equiped cars now before than all must have it in 2012. So THAT'S what will end the world on December 21st... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 You know, if they had a proper keyed ignition they could have just turned the car off. Too bad some people just aren't bright enough to shift, kill the motor, or do something else while driving out of control in their runaway toyotas. Nobody said they were the best drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 They will figure out the problem just like every other automaker has when they have a problem with their vehicles. The only reason it's getting blown up other than the accidents is because Toyota is not known for having mass recalls. They have a problem, they will fix it and they will continue to be known for what they have always been known for. Let's face it, just because Toyota established Lexus and is making big bucks the way they are is marketing genius. For those that have figured it out...don't buy a Lexus. What about the Ford/Mercury line, the Mitsubishi/Eagle line, the GMC/Chevrolet/Pontiac line, etc... all automakers do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I think it's a difference between trickle down/trickle up. No jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I think it's a difference between trickle down/trickle up. No jokes. Exactly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Correct. I'm not entirely sold on DBW. I'll take a throttle cable in any situation except cruise control. How would people feel about having guns with trigger-by-wire? That's EXACTLY what I though. Boo friggin ya! On my Subaru the DBW system and Requested Torque system are great for tuning. But if I was leaving it stock, yeah, I´d take a throttle cable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 On my Subaru the DBW system and Requested Torque system are great for tuning. But if I was leaving it stock, yeah, I´d take a throttle cable too. On your subaru you don't have problems getting stuck at WOT, and if you did Subaru would deny responsibility. Toyota is in trouble. If it's confirmed that they knew the DBW servos or whatever were bad, and they tried to mask it with a baloney "floormat" recall, they're going to get that crap sued out of them and lose. I don't know guys, maybe I'm prejudiced but I just can't see any difference between an optioned camry and an es350. Then they throw the avalon and solara in there, and that's not helping. When you're underneath these things all day, and they look identical, it makes it much harder to pay thousands more for one than the other. Is that what is costs to paint some plastic badges gold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Correct. I'm not entirely sold on DBW. I'll take a throttle cable in any situation except cruise control. How would people feel about having guns with trigger-by-wire? That's EXACTLY what I though. Boo friggin ya! They do have them... They also are not suppossed to jam and are much more consistant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyM3rC Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 They do have them... They also are not suppossed to jam and are much more consistant Who has them? Who? The average toyota consumer? Absolutely not! Maybe carefully trained professionals have them. In the Army? Where? If trained professional drivers had faulty toyotas they would handle them just fine. Joe toyota idiot cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 You know, if they had a proper keyed ignition they could have just turned the car off. Too bad some people just aren't bright enough to shift, kill the motor, or do something else while driving out of control in their runaway toyotas. Nobody said they were the best drivers. I don't think anyone on here owns a prius, which tells me something about the average person that owns one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't know guys, maybe I'm prejudiced but I just can't see any difference between an optioned camry and an es350. Then they throw the avalon and solara in there, and that's not helping. When you're underneath these things all day, and they look identical, it makes it much harder to pay thousands more for one than the other. Is that what is costs to paint some plastic badges gold? I am one that stands under them and you are right, I think no higher of Lexus owners than Toyota owners they are identical for the most part. I also don't see differences between Audi/VW they have the same problems with the drivelines for the most part. All automakers copy off of each other, and as I have said in the past, a quote that comes from my boss. "All cars are junk, that is why technicians have a job" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The use of drive by wire allows for seemless and complete integration of a vehicles controls, which in many cases, are better left up to a computer. Wireless controls like this have been used in aircraft for decades and prove far more reliable and consistant than cables. Smoother idleMuch easier integration of Traction control, stability controlEven my Mazda controls drivability by limiting torque and power based on position of the steering and gearing. DBW does cut emissions and increase fuel economyMBZ even uses it with their traffic sensing / adaptive cruise control. It's sweet and will even bring the car to a dead stop if a car in front of you jams on the brakes and you don't react...electronic brake control...it's a true safety feature.My GXP clicked off very quick and strong tap-shift tranny changes thanks to itNissan has rev matching in the new 370...drive one and you'll love it. By combining direct injection, a turbo, 6spd, DBW they have enabled me to flog the car and have it respond with performance, manners and safety, even if I'm not paying any mind to it. In computer controlled mode, mash the pedal and drop the clutch and the car will limit the RPM's and damage potential. It will control the power and torque in the first two gears to maximize grip and the ill effects of engine hop and tranny damage. Turn from a dead stop and mash it, and the tranny is again protected as it knows steering position and controls power. Mash the brakes and Brake assist distributes power evenly, TCS and ESC keep the car straight. Even on a snow covered road, you'd be hard-pressed to do spin...you'll do a bit arc, but not likely to spin out. The list goes on. Does it make me superman? No, but it does save lives and help the car from suffering tons of harm by having a middle man with sense of how all the systems work together properly in charge. So far as Toyota and the direct control working well....I see what's happening there really a matter of poorly informed drivers not knowing what the hell to do. I don't car what car you're driving or how it's controlled, if the gas pedal sticks at WOT, you fucking throw the car in neutral and hit the brakes. WTF....I still can't believe a veteran law enforcement officer didn't know that. The raked gearshift on the Lexus doesn't require a degree to navigate. I drove a co-workers ES330 just today and tried it out with his permission. I floored the car on the freeway. The 3.3l does scoot, but without lifting my foot, the car moved to neutral just like normal, then bounced the engine off the limiter somewhere around 4k rpm. What does EPC and fly-by-wire, and all the other electronic throttle controls do for us other than add a middle-man of control between the user and the throttle? Obviously adding an uncontrollable complex failure point inline of what used to be direct control is working well for Toyota. Does it give us more power? more gas mileage? super strength? I find it gives me delayed down shifts, delayed acceleration from a stop and generally less feel of control of the acceleration over a simple cable. That's all the real world research I need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I still say there must be a reason that drag racers dont have airbags and sometimes switch from fi to a carb... The fewer electronics on a car the less things can go wrong.. I much rather have a full cage and a harness over every pannel in my car having a airbag built into it.. I would say reason number 1 is weight and design. I also don't think hitting an airbag at 300mph is going to be better than just simply restraints either. Sorta like jumping in water at heights above 50'.....water isn't soft from that high. Both are going to be beyond the point of damage control. FI wise, I'd love to see what size injector would be needed to power some of the beasts flying down the track. Cage wise, not a real good thing to market in a family car. Also, not really needed since most accidents don't involve such high speed wrecks where the car completely falls apart leaving just the shell to protect the occupants. Air bags do a far better job of protecting mom, dad and two kids than a cage would when Johnny Civic runs the light t-boning the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't know guys, maybe I'm prejudiced but I just can't see any difference between an optioned camry and an es350. Then they throw the avalon and solara in there, and that's not helping. When you're underneath these things all day, and they look identical, it makes it much harder to pay thousands more for one than the other. IMO, you don't see the differences because you're under one vs own one or both. The two are quite different. Go take a loaded up SE V6 Camry and then drive a ES 330. The Lexus is vastly superior in fit and finish inside. The leather is noticeably better. even the creature comforts of a Tyipical Toyota JBL vs Mark Levinson will by far show how Lexus departs from Toyota. The amount of road noise or lack of it in the Lexus is noticable. I also haven't noticed any squeaks vs the Toyota. My boss has an ES330 and my co-worker a Camera SE V6. The differences is about equal to their job roles. Vastly different. They don't share much if any body parts in terms of looks like they used to. Overall though, when buyers are concerned about money and costs, they aren't typically Lexus candidates. Sorta like looking at price tags, if you have to, then you probably can't "really" afford it. The ES line is a transition point for buyers. Call it a dressed up Camery, but that's where it ends. The Lexus LS and GS line have no lower Toyota line equivalents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Ok, I admit. RSC, TCS, ESC et al are great additives to the vehicles out there today. I do agree they keep the idiots who don't know how to drive alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I do agree they keep the idiots who don't know how to drive alive. So only idiots find themselves in adverse conditions, cut off by people not paying attention or driving carelessly all of which put the innocent in danger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes, they are also the only ones who can't read thick sarcasm on internet forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Don't worry, you probably won't get the sarcasm in that one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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