Employment Legal Advice

[Rally Pat]

I recently lost my job, mainly because the guy I work for is an idiot, but that is beside the point.

 

They are trying to withhold my accumulated paid time off because of a line in the handbook saying that they can do that. However, we have never been shown the handbook or signed anything agreeing to anything in the handbook. Despite having worked there for 10 months, and saying that they were going to get it to us, they never did. Can they do this?

 

In the same manner, they claim I am under an NDA and a no-compete clause, which I have never signed either. Again, was supposed to, but they never followed through.

[KillJoy]

According to my Atty years back, a Non Compete will not really stand up in OH. They cannot keep you from making a living (in your field).

 

KillJoy

[TTQ B4U]

According to my Atty years back, a Non Compete will not really stand up in OH. They cannot keep you from making a living (in your field).

 

In his case, if he didn't sign it, then they don't have a non-compete in place. However, an NDA, or company customer lists, private info that could harm their business....you're not going to be in good shape if you do something to cause harm to them and they come after you...you will be in trouble.

 

Non-compete agreements thought do vary. Today they are more strict due to the economy. They are enforceable. Some not as strongly as others. However, again, due to economy, my wife is seeing far more being enforced and going to court than she has in the past. Has two pending cases right now and it's not good for the employee in either case. If you signed one, expect it to be challenged.

[LJ]

In his case, if he didn't sign it, then they don't have a non-compete in place. However, an NDA, or company customer lists, private info that could harm their business....you're not going to be in good shape if you do something to cause harm to them and they come after you...you will be in trouble.

 

Non-compete agreements thought do vary. Today they are more strict due to the economy. They are enforceable. Some not as strongly as others. However, again, due to economy, my wife is seeing far more being enforced and going to court than she has in the past. Has two pending cases right now and it's not good for the employee in either case. If you signed one, expect it to be challenged.

 

can you do me a favor and ask your wife how well non-compete clauses for veterinarians hold up? My gf had a job offer that included a non-compete clause that was something like she can't practice within 25 miles of that practice for 5 years. So basically they were saying if you quit here you can't practice in Columbus for 5 years.

[Rally Pat]

Forget the no-compete and nda right now, they haven't done anything with those but I was asking because this is the kind of shit he would try to comeback with.

 

I need advice about the handbook thing, that's the card they are pulling right now.

[TTQ B4U]

can you do me a favor and ask your wife how well non-compete clauses for veterinarians hold up? My gf had a job offer that included a non-compete clause that was something like she can't practice within 25 miles of that practice for 5 years. So basically they were saying if you quit here you can't practice in Columbus for 5 years.

 

Legally she can't give advice over the internet, but I can Tell your GF to negotiate the non compete prior to signing the offer. Essentially what they are doing is completely legal and enforceable, although it does depend on the language and how the contract was drawn up. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have her engage in some type of pre-paid legal or at least contact an attorney to review the form. Insight and advice that will be worth the cost as she moves forward.

 

Overall, they are within reasonable terms with a limit of 25 miles. Term of 5 years is a bit long, but if it was pressed to a court battle, best guess is they would say 2-3yrs. However, if it gets to court, she's likely have already been terminated from her next job or forced by injunction to close her practice if that's the route she went next.

 

Tell her to red-line the terms to something she's agreeable to and write up a severance package of her own should she be terminated.

 

I told my last employer that the restrictions would be to their "existing customers only" and for a period of 2yrs vs 5yrs. I also asked for 90 days severance plus 1 month per year of employment there after. They agreed, but it took 6 weeks to get approved internally. She might also want to add a county restriction vs a distance, but that is something she would have to evaluate. Especially if you live close to a bordering county.

[TTQ B4U]

I need advice about the handbook thing, that's the card they are pulling right now.

 

You will not likely get your paid time off money, so while I hate to bear that news to you, might insight the other way is to focus on what you can control.

 

They are not required to provide you a handbook. It's encouraged, but not required in Ohio. It's employment "at will" and you have nothing in writing about paid time off, thus the argument could go both ways. They never promised or gave you anything in writing telling you about paid time off or how it's accrued. Typically, it's pro-rated but they could just say, you don't get shit and the job didn't come with paid time off.

 

I will say they can't do much in the way of a non-compete unless you signed something. I would also advise that you not disclose any confidential info such as customer lists or trade secrets, etc...as they can and will likely come after you for that. More than anything, they will likely come after you and inform your new employer in a typically successful attempt to threaten to drag them into something of your doing. Which, while it may not have much merit, will likely cause your termination as no employer is going to even remotely risk any issues over an expendable employee.

[HAOLE]

According to my Atty years back, a Non Compete will not really stand up in OH. They cannot keep you from making a living (in your field).

 

KillJoy

 

Ahhh not so fast. They do hold up in Ohio. The problem is the non-competes are generally too restrictive and the people that write them are over zealous. For example, If I hire a chiropractor, and I say to him here is your non-compete agreement and it restricts him from operating in the state of Ohio for a period of two years after stopping employment at our office. That will not hold up because the area that is being restricted is too large. If the agreement says he cannot operate within 10 miles of the office for a period of two years, that will hold up in court.

 

 

Well I guess Tim already covered this...lol

[LJ]

Legally she can't give advice over the internet, but I can Tell your GF to negotiate the non compete prior to signing the offer. Essentially what they are doing is completely legal and enforceable, although it does depend on the language and how the contract was drawn up. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have her engage in some type of pre-paid legal or at least contact an attorney to review the form. Insight and advice that will be worth the cost as she moves forward.

 

Overall, they are within reasonable terms with a limit of 25 miles. Term of 5 years is a bit long, but if it was pressed to a court battle, best guess is they would say 2-3yrs. However, if it gets to court, she's likely have already been terminated from her next job or forced by injunction to close her practice if that's the route she went next.

 

Tell her to red-line the terms to something she's agreeable to and write up a severance package of her own should she be terminated.

 

I told my last employer that the restrictions would be to their "existing customers only" and for a period of 2yrs vs 5yrs. I also asked for 90 days severance plus 1 month per year of employment there after. They agreed, but it took 6 weeks to get approved internally. She might also want to add a county restriction vs a distance, but that is something she would have to evaluate. Especially if you live close to a bordering county.

 

Well that sucks that 25 miles is reasonable. Her friends have said that most of their non-compete clauses just say they can't open their own practice within a certain number of miles. Most of the good places have non-competes, so I guess she better find somewhere she wants to stay. I just find it shitty that they are offering 1 year contracts with such long non-compete clauses in them.

[Rally Pat]

The area I worked in is not what I am studying, and I will never work in that field again. Not worried about him coming after me for anything like that.

 

I've got close to the maximum amount of PTO, which is 80 hours if I remeber correctly, it would suck not to get that.

[TTQ B4U]

Well that sucks that 25 miles is reasonable. Her friends have said that most of their non-compete clauses just say they can't open their own practice within a certain number of miles. Most of the good places have non-competes, so I guess she better find somewhere she wants to stay. I just find it shitty that they are offering 1 year contracts with such long non-compete clauses in them.

 

My previous employer had 100 miles in their contract. The above is exactly why my wife opened her own law practice right out of school. Most firms had clauses about doing so once she was with them, so she said fuck it and did it from the start.

 

The area I worked in is not what I am studying, and I will never work in that field again. Not worried about him coming after me for anything like that.

 

I've got close to the maximum amount of PTO, which is 80 hours if I remeber correctly, it would suck not to get that.

 

That's a lot of PTO to have accrued in such a short time. Most places won't let you get that much in only 10 months.

[LJ]

My previous employer had 100 miles in their contract. The above is exactly why my wife opened her own law practice right out of school. Most firms had clauses about doing so once she was with them, so she said fuck it and did it from the start.

 

 

 

 

She would but it's like $125k to be competitive around here unless she wanted to just do all large animal ambulatory

[TTQ B4U]

She would but it's like $125k to be competitive around here unless she wanted to just do all large animal ambulatory

 

yep....big difference.....my wife started her practice with $5k and a $800 month rent payment. :bangbang:

[Rally Pat]

I need advice again. The unemployment office sent me a message, claiming that eCycle refuses unemployment, on the grounds that we reached a "Mutual Agreement", which is what they told me in the meeting we had, but I have an e-mail from the human resources director, saying I was terminated. They held my vacation pay because of it.

 

Any help again this time anyone?

[mmrmnhrm]

I need advice again. The unemployment office sent me a message, claiming that eCycle refuses unemployment, on the grounds that we reached a "Mutual Agreement", which is what they told me in the meeting we had, but I have an e-mail from the human resources director, saying I was terminated. They held my vacation pay because of it.

 

Any help again this time anyone?

 

Appeal the decision. You have documentation saying you were terminated.

[Rally Pat]

I already did, but what happens if it goes further.

[mmrmnhrm]

I already did, but what happens if it goes further.

How far are you willing to go with these guys? If they choose to fight you just about getting unemployment, it may be time to get a lawyer on retainer to write a nastygram reminding them of their responsibility to pay your PTO, that documentation exists to prove they are perjuring themselves with respect to your unemployment compensation, and continued obstruction will result in legal action seeking a jury trial for statutory, compensatory, and punitive damages. Companies don't like nastygrams very much, especially when faced with the possibility of 12 angry people who, in this economic climate, would love nothing more than to stick it to 'the man'.

[TTQ B4U]

I already did, but what happens if it goes further.

 

why were you terminated? The real official reason not just that you boss is a jerk. If they terminated you on grounds they do not have to pay unemployment.

[Rally Pat]

why were you terminated? The real official reason not just that you boss is a jerk. If they terminated you on grounds they do not have to pay unemployment.

 

No reason given, but I guess that they would claim "performance" or something stupid like that, just to have something to say, even though they fell immediately behind when I left.

 

They called it a mutual agreement, but when I told him I couldn't feasibly leave, he told me to get out basically.

 

You guys don't seem to understand, this guy is a soulless asshole. He can't seem to picture any of his workers having real bills to pay or families to take care of. All he gives a shit about is his money grubbing self. He was an executive at Oracle, basically got stuck on the ladder, and started his own company just to start out at the top.

[Diamonds]

In regards to the non-compete.....

 

Lets say hypothetically you signed one.

 

IF an employee terminates your employment they CANNOT come after you for a non-compete. It basically boils down to the fact that they cannot stop you rom continuing to work in an industry if they desire to terminate your employment.

 

NOTE, DISCLAIMER - I had a non compete that said "if you quit, if we fire you, if we lay you off, etc... you cannot compete"... I had an attorney look it over because It came into play for my new job (even though i quit, not get fired) and he laughed at it.

 

I did however see a guy at our firm get fucked out of 2 months work because the firm he used to work for came after him in addition to our company owner.

 

Caveat emptor

[Diamonds]

BTW, asking a "Car guy" forum for emloyment legal advice is only going to get you about 8,956 different biased opinions..... good job....

[TTQ B4U]

No reason given, but I guess that they would claim "performance" or something stupid like that, just to have something to say, even though they fell immediately behind when I left.

 

They called it a mutual agreement, but when I told him I couldn't feasibly leave, he told me to get out basically.

 

You guys don't seem to understand, this guy is a soulless asshole. He can't seem to picture any of his workers having real bills to pay or families to take care of. All he gives a shit about is his money grubbing self. He was an executive at Oracle, basically got stuck on the ladder, and started his own company just to start out at the top.

 

Believe me man, I understand. However, the emotional aspects of it in terms of who your boss is or what he's like don't play in. It's a business matter and depending on how he listed your parting it's likely you don't have any grounds.

 

I've terminated people both ways.....fired them on the spot due to insubordination and poor performance and others where I discussed with them that they were going to be terminated but if they avoided any conflicts and agreed to a mutual parting, they would move on without a termination on their records to explain to their next potential employer. In today's market, it's a toss up as it's hard to explain being fired in such a tough economy, although it's also tough to forgo unemployment. Contrast that though I've also had to release folks with a mutual agreement yet never contested an unemployment claim.

[TTQ B4U]

 

IF an employee terminates your employment they CANNOT come after you for a non-compete. It basically boils down to the fact that they cannot stop you rom continuing to work in an industry if they desire to terminate your employment.

 

Not true. All depends on the wording of the agreement. Even more solid if they terminate you with grounds. Taking a job, signing a contract agreement and acting like an ass or not meeting performance measures causing your own termination doesn't negate the initial contract.

 

NOTE, DISCLAIMER - I had a non compete that said "if you quit, if we fire you, if we lay you off, etc... you cannot compete"... I had an attorney look it over because It came into play for my new job (even though i quit, not get fired) and he laughed at it.

 

Again, depends on the wording, he can laugh at it all he wants, but when worded correctly, it's a valid deal. Good non-competes are typically written very well by corporate attorneys or reviewed by their council. They don't often if ever leave holes. Unless you took it forward to court and won, the agreement isn't a laughing matter and is a solid agreement until you prove otherwise.

 

I did however see a guy at our firm get fucked out of 2 months work because the firm he used to work for came after him in addition to our company owner. Caveat emptor

 

Exactly....and in today economy, not many companies are going to wait two months or debate the issue, they will move on a hire another person. Just happened with a client my wife worked with on a similar manner. Pitney Bowes simply passed on him as a candidate, even though he was one of the best they were after. Bottom line is that it just wasn't worth the issues when so many other great candidates are out there.

[Rally Pat]

CR comes through for people with advice on stuff like this all the time. I have my share of enemies on here, but I have way more friends, and don't mind asking stuff like to a community thats has had that large an impact on my life.

[Clifford Automotive]

According to my Atty years back, a Non Compete will not really stand up in OH. They cannot keep you from making a living (in your field).

 

KillJoy

 

It will, we sued a guy after he left us (not my business) and we won.

 

 

Anyway, the best thing to do it see what exactly you signed. Have them show you where you signed these documents. They will be in your file. (And good luck with that btw)