Manufacturing in the US

[Slowbalt]

There was no specific industry set, people in general will opt for a cheaper alternative all things being equal. That is provided there is no huge gap in quality of the two items. The US needs manufacturing jobs, our service based economy will fail even more in the future.

There is more than just the price involved for competion.

This was my point to you so thanks for demonstrating your understanding, you receive a gold star.

 

 

Unions are a parasite on the workplace. Have you ever had to deal with a union? I had a union leader threaten me if I pressed an issue against a union member in the workplace. Even though the union work was in the wrong, incompetent, and general useless. The location could not get rid of him because of the union and he continued to make it difficult for me to do my job.

 

I understand that unions are not all roses and chocolate but have you ever worked for a meat packer? Ever seen someones arm cut off because the company removed the guard on the machine? What if the person couldn't sue? Again, I will state that unions are not needed everywhere and for every job and there certainly are corrupt ones out there, but they do perform a helpful function for the worker. It should be the workers choice, if the union isn't serving them, they should get rid of it.

 

Wipe out corporations? What are you a professor or someone else that does not live in the real world? I hate to tell you this is not the Oregon Trail, we don’t live in the olden days, and corporations are going to get bigger. If you don’t like that maybe you should move to an old territory of Soviet Russia, I think it would make everybody happy…

 

Your seemingly limited view on the "real world" is astounding, haha. As I stated before we need to manufacture some things. We do not need corporations in the image of coca cola, citibank, morgan stanley, etc. American life and culture is UNSUSTAINABLE. I am not sure if you grasp exactly what this means but as China and India become more like us, this puts a HUGE stress on natural resources. Who owns these? Not you and I but the corporations. I am not exactly advocating living in tree houses but surely growing your own food or a cooperative, using less and buying less "stuff", working towards transfer of power from corporations to the people, etc. If we begin to take a look at the big picture, we find that there are other countries out there that do not have food and clean water but we fight over zhu zhu pets.....

[Slowbalt]

hey I know lets all be hippies and talk about how evil the big bad corporations are and go back to living like the field peasants of medieval Europe, sounds like they had a way better life than we do now

 

I find it ironic that the people that complain about how much we are killing the environment from using electricity or complain about how we shouldn't have any corporations are doing their complaining online using computers bought from corporations, that are built from parts manufactured overseas by corporations, and sucking down plenty of electricity every step of the way to do it. If someone TRULY cared to make a difference they would recycle their computer and never use one again rather than just bitching about how other people should do it.

 

While true that computers are made by corporations and they do use electricity, I can't exactly attack them with a stick I picked up from the ground, ya know. The internet is the only place where we have free communication and the easiest way to spread information and ideas, so yes, that is why I use it. As far as electricity goes we can produce it sustainably, it is just less expensive for the corporations to use coal. I have been indoctrinated by American culture and I am slowly working on weaning myself off it. You have to start somewhere, right? What are you doing to help?

 

As far as quality of life goes 1 in 2 men will get cancer in the US and 1 in 3 woman. Cancer in Japan is less than 1% and they don't live in the "medieval" times. You all are stating that corporations own and control everything so just get over it. I am saying there are other ways of living. The scariest thing about this society is that people are brainwashed into thinking it is good for them.

[wagner]

There is more than just the price involved for competion.

This was my point to you so thanks for demonstrating your understanding, you receive a gold star.

 

 

 

I understand that unions are not all roses and chocolate but have you ever worked for a meat packer? Ever seen someones arm cut off because the company removed the guard on the machine? What if the person couldn't sue? Again, I will state that unions are not needed everywhere and for every job and there certainly are corrupt ones out there, but they do perform a helpful function for the worker. It should be the workers choice, if the union isn't serving them, they should get rid of it.

 

 

 

Your seemingly limited view on the "real world" is astounding, haha. As I stated before we need to manufacture some things. We do not need corporations in the image of coca cola, citibank, morgan stanley, etc. American life and culture is UNSUSTAINABLE. I am not sure if you grasp exactly what this means but as China and India become more like us, this puts a HUGE stress on natural resources. Who owns these? Not you and I but the corporations. I am not exactly advocating living in tree houses but surely growing your own food or a cooperative, using less and buying less "stuff", working towards transfer of power from corporations to the people, etc. If we begin to take a look at the big picture, we find that there are other countries out there that do not have food and clean water but we fight over zhu zhu pets.....

 

1. I have worked in a plant where there were no unions and conditions were not safe. Someone got hurt due to this and you know what they did? They sued the plant and won! Imagine that, the system worked?

 

2. How is my view limited? I have worked in just about every line of work from pulling weeds on a farm to corporate america. What a text book or theory tells you is just that, words or theory that might or might not work...

 

3. You really think China and India are an our path? Well then they have not had the same civil rights issues we had here yet correct? What do you think is going to happen in a mondern setting in those countries?

 

During our civil rights movement people were attacked with dogs and water. In those countries they will be killed and burnt to hide the "issue".

[phil]

To clarify for some

1. How do we bring manufacturing back to the United States?

 

It depends on what type of manufacturing. But short story is make stuff that people need. Make them in the US. Employ US citizens to make them....or robots.

 

The word "need" can be somewhat subjective. People don't "need" much.

 

2. Do we even want to considering the effect it would have on both pricing and the environment.

 

Possibly not. I think that we should most definitely manufacture things that we need. Many people forget the fact that a good infrastructure is essential to security. Processes of manufacture that are not sustainable maybe should be made sustainable or phased out.

 

 

 

Question: Why does everyone hate on the union as a cause of lack of manufacturing?

 

 

 

Idk know you, I haven't read this thread, idk what's going on in here, but wagner told me to tell you, that if you don't stop typing this tom foolery, that he is going to come to your home with a black addidas jump suite, ski mask, and non fitting gloves and rape you into liberel submission. Do you really want that? I suspect not, so do yourself a favor and make like a tree and branch.

Edited January 13, 2011 by FILL

[smokinHawk1647545499]

lmao on slowbolts anarchy philosophy, really really hahahaha

 

wat up Chomsky......

lol

[Forrest Gump 9]

Nuke india, nuke china, start over.

 

Problem solved.

 

I wish it's that simple. Are you sure you want to pick a fight with 1/3 of the world popularion?

 

I still think you, myself, and Drewhop should run for political office. The world would hate the truth that would be thrown at them.

 

What's stopping you? I think city of Columbus is selecting council and representative as we speak. We desperately need a change in direction. If you're foolish enough to run for political office, I'll be foolish enough to vote you in!!

[wagner]

I wish it's that simple. Are you sure you want to pick a fight with 1/3 of the world popularion?

 

 

 

What's stopping you? I think city of Columbus is selecting council and representative as we speak. We desperately need a change in direction. If you're foolish enough to run for political office, I'll be foolish enough to vote you in!!

 

The people of this earth realm are not ready for my level of truth.

[Slowbalt]

1. I have worked in a plant where there were no unions and conditions were not safe. Someone got hurt due to this and you know what they did? They sued the plant and won! Imagine that, the system worked?

 

2. How is my view limited? I have worked in just about every line of work from pulling weeds on a farm to corporate america. What a text book or theory tells you is just that, words or theory that might or might not work...

 

3. You really think China and India are an our path? Well then they have not had the same civil rights issues we had here yet correct? What do you think is going to happen in a mondern setting in those countries?

 

During our civil rights movement people were attacked with dogs and water. In those countries they will be killed and burnt to hide the "issue".

I am not doubting your work history, I am doubting your worldview. I am not entirely sure what your point about potential civil rights outcomes has to do with THE FACT that they are becoming more industrialized and therefor using more resources. I do like chomski but I don't see eye to eye with him on everything, like technology for example.

 

For the betterment of the minds on this forum it would be helpfull to read Jared Diamonds book "Guns, Germs, and Steel", next I would read "a peoples history of the united states" by howard zinn. I would then move to the documentaries "food inc" and "the corporation". Then you may begin to have an undersatnding of the "real world"

[Forrest Gump 9]

The people of this earth realm are not ready for my level of truth.

 

It's can't hurt. We are already in a hole so deep that it's connected to China.

[04silvrz]

There is no manufacturing in the US, because the Unions got grunt workers paid $30 an hour to put a widget on to a widget. Mindless work that robots, monkeys, or sweatshops can do for next to nothing. If the unions wouldn't have DEMANDED outrageous wages for grunt workers there would be plenty of those jobs making a reasonable 12 - 15 per hour.

 

Not saying unions are ALL bad. But at the same time a Union shouldn't have to tell a company about it's work conditions. The law should, therefor a no need for a union at all.

[wagner]

I am not doubting your work history, I am doubting your worldview. I am not entirely sure what your point about potential civil rights outcomes has to do with THE FACT that they are becoming more industrialized and therefor using more resources. I do like chomski but I don't see eye to eye with him on everything, like technology for example.

 

For the betterment of the minds on this forum it would be helpfull to read Jared Diamonds book "Guns, Germs, and Steel", next I would read "a peoples history of the united states" by howard zinn. I would then move to the documentaries "food inc" and "the corporation". Then you may begin to have an undersatnding of the "real world"

 

 

All of this indsutrialization is leading to a more westernized way of life. This is in direct conflict with how these countries work. If you can't understand that maybe there is a book or other documentaries that wil tell you how the "real world" works.

[Main3s]

Manufacturing in the US to me is just like a story I know called The Puppy Who Lost His Way. The world was changing and the puppy was getting bigger. So, you see, the puppy was like Manufacturing in the US in that they were both lost in the woods...and nobody, especially the US society knew where to find them. Except that the puppy... was a dog.

But the manufacturing, my friends, that was a revolution.

[Draco-REX]

All of this indsutrialization is leading to a more westernized way of life. This is in direct conflict with how these countries work. If you can't understand that maybe there is a book or other documentaries that wil tell you how the "real world" works.

 

I have to go with this. Their cultures are alien to ours. Our templates are not going to fit them, and making them fit (as they are trying to do) is going to cause a LOT of internal pressures both cultural and political which will eventually explode.

 

This has already happened, and will happen again.

[wagner]

I have to go with this. Their cultures are alien to ours. Our templates are not going to fit them, and making them fit (as they are trying to do) is going to cause a LOT of internal pressures both cultural and political which will eventually explode.

 

This has already happened, and will happen again.

 

You shoudl hear the horror stories from the people in my MBA classes that are from these contries. It is shocking it has not happened on a grand scale yet.

[wnaplay1647545503]

You shoudl hear the horror stories from the people in my MBA classes that are from these contries. It is shocking it has not happened on a grand scale yet.

Would you like to buy a vowel?

[Slowbalt]

All of this indsutrialization is leading to a more westernized way of life. This is in direct conflict with how these countries work. If you can't understand that maybe there is a book or other documentaries that wil tell you how the "real world" works.

 

You just repeated back what I said but then claim I don't understand it......

I agree that industrialization is leading to a more westernized culture, and that that is not the traditional culture of these locations. That was not my point though. A s they industrialize and westernize they will consume more and resources are limited while corporate profit is expected to be infinitely increasing, this is a problem. We are already running out of resources as it is.

[wagner]

You just repeated back what I said but then claim I don't understand it......

I agree that industrialization is leading to a more westernized culture, and that that is not the traditional culture of these locations. That was not my point though. A s they industrialize and westernize they will consume more and resources are limited while corporate profit is expected to be infinitely increasing, this is a problem. We are already running out of resources as it is.

 

Maybe I need to dumb it down more for you. When people in these countries realize they are getting the shaft as far as their rights, they are going to freak out. This will lead to a STOP IN THEIR PROGRESS BECAUSE THEY WILL START TO KILL EACH OTHER. THERE WILL BE NO FUTHER PRODUCTION BECAUSE THE WORKERS WILL BE FIGHTING THE GOVERNMENT.

 

I don't understand your fixation on resources. The only way to consume less is to kill more humans or let them reproduce less. Oh wait, China is trying that and it is working out so well for their human rights scorecard...

 

Does that make sense? Their rise will stop because the people of these countries are pissed they have a half assed western development. Go to China and try to disagree with their government, I dare you. Go to India and try to break through their social system.

[I Eat Rice]

I am a little late to this debate but I'm going to throw in a few cents of my own anyway. It seems that alot of people are jumping to the union as a scapegoat here. Why is this when the union's main propose is to protect the worker , the little guy, the man with no voice against the big wig up stairs running the show trying to keep all the money in his pocket. Wagner you claim to be a working man yet you seem to have a problem with the same organization that at its core is only there to protect you and your rights as a worker. Get rid of the union is not even close to the answer here. Should the union be a little more organized and have a series of checks and balances to prevent some of the coruption that is currently taking place within it yes. The major problem here with manufacturing going over sea's is more due to the greed of the very select few that profit the most from the company in the first place. We tend to call these people the 1%ters of our nation. The ones with all the money. They have found that by moving their factories over seas they can make twice to three times the profit because they pay children and women less than a dollar for ten hours worth of work. Just look at Nike for example. How much on average does a new Jordan tee shirt cost from Footlocker? Lets just call it $30. The ten year old kid over in that sweet shop in Tiland got paid 30cents to make it. I repeat 30cents.... That is a profit margin of 100%. Why does the business need a margin like this? Easy to pay the wages for the select few that we are also relaying on to trickle down their wealth and then us working class people will be able to swin and frolick in the pools of lesser weath that they have provided us with. Right... They will just hord their money and countine to make far too much of it untill someone steps in and levels out the playing field again and makes these greedy ass people with what seems a lack of human morals accounatable for their actions. The reason why we make nothing within our country is because it is to profitable for a select few to just make it in another country. Attack the owners of the corperation they are the ones to blame for this problem not the union. Edited January 13, 2011 by I Eat Rice

[smokinHawk1647545499]

How much on average does a new Jordan tee shirt cost from Footlocker? Lets just call it $30. The ten year old kid over in that sweet shop Tiland got paid 30cents to make it. I repeat 30cents.... That is a profit margin of 100%

 

you do know about material costs, overhead, and transportation costs right.

there are a lot of costs that go into a product.

I dont agree with making kids work, or treating workers poorly, but wage per cost of living is different over there.

[Ramsey]

you do know about material costs, overhead, and transportation costs right.

there are a lot of costs that go into a product.

I dont agree with making kids work, or treating workers poorly, but wage per cost of living is different over there.

 

cost of living is something americans need to take control of.

[I Eat Rice]

Maybe I need to dumb it down more for you. When people in these countries realize they are getting the shaft as far as their rights, they are going to freak out. This will lead to a STOP IN THEIR PROGRESS BECAUSE THEY WILL START TO KILL EACH OTHER. THERE WILL BE NO FUTHER PRODUCTION BECAUSE THE WORKERS WILL BE FIGHTING THE GOVERNMENT.

 

I don't understand your fixation on resources. The only way to consume less is to kill more humans or let them reproduce less. Oh wait, China is trying that and it is working out so well for their human rights scorecard...

 

Does that make sense? Their rise will stop because the people of these countries are pissed they have a half assed western development. Go to China and try to disagree with their government, I dare you. Go to India and try to break through their social system.

I think you just have a problem with Mr Slowbalt because you think he is a lefty and you cant see the correlation between what he is saying and what you are. He is trying to tell you that he agrees with you he is just using a level of grammer that is used by someone who is on a higher level of education. Aparently you are not on this level or you have understood this instead of yealling at him and still trying to argue and ebash his points. Your first point is to the t with what he said in his post that you had to try to bash. Your second point is very extreme and just shows your lack of a higher understanding. Human control as a means to consumeing less resourses wow. Its called green energy you know free energy, other wise known as not coal which is what we use now which costs money to mine just to burn and

pollute the air we consume into our bodies. And guess what were running out of it. We need to start taking advantage of other forms which is where green energy comes in not killing babies to control and or to slow consumption. The big picture here is why are we trying to Westernize these countries in the first place? If we were not intrudeing as a country and bringing all of our westernized ideas and products over there just so McDonalds, KFC, or Pepsi can make a few more dollars we would not be having this problem in the first place...

Edited January 13, 2011 by I Eat Rice

[wnaplay1647545503]

Question 1. To bring back manufacturing to the US, americans would need to collectively take a united stance on something other than electing a president. Although some say we actually dont even do that anymore, and even if we do, alot of people base their vote on political lines not what a candidate stands for.

 

Question 2. We are not so far removed from US manufacturing practices that a justification can be made why moving (at least recently exported jobs) jobs back here would dramatically increase most products/services.

 

I dont know about anyone else, but the cost of products and services have not decreased, to my knowledge on anything now being manufactured outside the US. What has increased is profits for these companies. All it takes is for people to open their eyes just a little to see whats actually going on. Its a business choice they have chosen and apparently they have every right to do so. Whats amazing yet not surprising is people havent boycotted business' that do this despite the fact everyone appears to disagree with it. Two other prime examples of industries raising prices citing increases "beyond their control" are tobacco and oil. Tobacco companies have tripled their prices just in the few short years I have been a smoker. At the inception of the increase they stated it was necessary based on federal tax increases and due in part to judgments levied against them, yet prices will never come back down. Secondly is oil who claim that the cost of fuel is directly related to the cost of oil. If this was actually the case profits wouldnt have ballooned to the point it has for them. Knowing this those of us who smoke continue to do so and for the most part I would have to say we all fill up our tanks each week without batting an eye. Things will change when enough of us have had all were going to stand and actually start being proactive to change them and not until. All of this has a root cause and that is where you have to start following the political trail. It doesnt take very much historical knowledge to see that in one shape or another this all has happened before. Those with power and influence have a very good reason to keep the rest of us in a world full of uncertainty, lacking stabilization, and non-united.

[I Eat Rice]

you do know about material costs, overhead, and transportation costs right.

there are a lot of costs that go into a product.

I dont agree with making kids work, or treating workers poorly, but wage per cost of living is different over there.

 

It is different over there because these big business owners make it and dont give their workers the same oppertunities that we have as workers in our country. If we paid them what they disserve guess what their quality of life would improve as a direct result. I know about material costs, overhead and transportation costs. Material costs would be the same here as over there, overhead however would be much more over here because the workers would actually be paid an honest amount of money, and transportation would be less but not enough less because they seem to not mind paying more money to ship their goods from another country back to ours. So in theory the only reason why they would want their major factories overseas is the ammout of money that they save in paying their workers nothing every year. Rather than the benfits of making their goods in the great USofA and paying the same for the materials used in making the product as well and paying less to transport it.

[I Eat Rice]

Question 1. To bring back manufacturing to the US, americans would need to collectively take a united stance on something other than electing a president. Although some say we actually dont even do that anymore, and even if we do, alot of people base their vote on political lines not what a candidate stands for.

 

Question 2. We are not so far removed from US manufacturing practices that a justification can be made why moving (at least recently exported jobs) jobs back here would dramatically increase most products/services.

 

I dont know about anyone else, but the cost of products and services have not decreased, to my knowledge on anything now being manufactured outside the US. What has increased is profits for these companies. All it takes is for people to open their eyes just a little to see whats actually going on. Its a business choice they have chosen and apparently they have every right to do so. Whats amazing yet not surprising is people havent boycotted business' that do this despite the fact everyone appears to disagree with it. Two other prime examples of industries raising prices citing increases "beyond their control" are tobacco and oil. Tobacco companies have tripled their prices just in the few short years I have been a smoker. At the inception of the increase they stated it was necessary based on federal tax increases and due in part to judgments levied against them, yet prices will never come back down. Secondly is oil who claim that the cost of fuel is directly related to the cost of oil. If this was actually the case profits wouldnt have ballooned to the point it has for them. Knowing this those of us who smoke continue to do so and for the most part I would have to say we all fill up our tanks each week without batting an eye. Things will change when enough of us have had all were going to stand and actually start being proactive to change them and not until. All of this has a root cause and that is where you have to start following the political trail. It doesnt take very much historical knowledge to see that in one shape or another this all has happened before. Those with power and influence have a very good reason to keep the rest of us in a world full of uncertainty, lacking stabilization, and non-united.

Its so nice to see someone who isnt running around life with their blinders on... You get it my friend. However the only thing I see wrong is in your idea of boycotting a product or organization. There is only so much this will do because to much of our nations people truely thinks that they can not go withough these things. A mass boycot will never happen because it takes alot to put something like that together. It would get shut down before it was ever put into action. Plus they dont care if we dont buy their goods because there will still be somone over in China, or Europe willing to buy them on any given day.

[wagner]

I think you just have a problem with Mr Slowbalt because you think he is a lefty and you cant see the correlation between what he is saying and what you are. He is trying to tell you that he agrees with you he is just using a level of grammer that is used by someone who is on a higher level of education. Aparently you are not on this level or you have understood this instead of yealling at him and still trying to argue and ebash his points. Your first point is to the t with what he said in his post that you had to try to bash. Your second point is very extreme and just shows your lack of a higher understanding. Human control as a means to consumeing less resourses wow. Its called green energy you know free energy, other wise known as not coal which is what we use now which costs money to mine just to burn and

pollute the air we consume into our bodies. And guess what were running out of it. We need to start taking advantage of other forms which is where green energy comes in not killing babies to control and or to slow consumption. The big picture here is why are we trying to Westernize these countries in the first place? If we were not intrudeing as a country and bringing all of our westernized ideas and products over there just so McDonalds, KFC, or Pepsi can make a few more dollars we would not be having this problem in the first place...

 

I guess are both right and what I am learning in my MBA program is wrong. I don't see any link between what he is saying and what I am saying.