LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 "My freinds need it and don't get it, but assholes do" is likely not true. You're freinds aren't getting it because it's very hard to get. This doesn't make sense. It is very hard to get for the people who need it, but look at all the lowlifes who just sit around on welfare and do nothing, keep having kids so they get more money, trashing their trailer home because it is "too nice" to make sure they don't lose any of their check, scamming the system in many other ways. All of these things I have witnessed personally. It is very much a reality in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Pointing out problems without suggesting any sort of solution is non-productive and pointless. Win, win, and even more win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Depends, some companies already pay the highest premium and really don't care. the Federal Gov't and a few big banks in Columbus come to mind. They have 1 paid off car, a $55,000 mortgage, student loans in forbearance and eat like college students. What else do you want them to do? At that, they should be living just fine off of 30k. Let's say 25% tax rate (probably less, with one working adult with wife and kid at that income tax bracket) = $22,500 a year take home = $1875/month. Bills: Say $300/month for health insurance Home, I'd have to assume with that small of a mortage, after property tax/insurance = $600 Car insurance better not be more than $75/month for a single car Eating like college kids would be $50/week, but let's give them $300/month...about what my wife and I pay, and we don't eat like college kids. I am sure their house is pretty small, let's give $200 for utilities Total: $1475 That leaves $400/month for incidentals. I've seen many folks (including myself in the past) struggle far harder than that and survive. Hell, my mom makes a little under 30k. Has a small house with a similar sized mortgage as your example (for her, the mortgage + tax/property tax is ~500/month), but isn't struggling to survive - she lives within her means; hell she just leased a brand new TSX, and goes on a couple vacations a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 At that, they should be living just fine off of 30k. Let's say 25% tax rate (probably less, with one working adult with wife and kid at that income tax bracket) = $22,500 a year take home = $1875/month. Bills: Say $300/month for health insurance Home, I'd have to assume with that small of a mortage, after property tax/insurance = $600 Car insurance better not be more than $75/month for a single car Eating like college kids would be $50/week, but let's give them $300/month...about what my wife and I pay, and we don't eat like college kids. I am sure their house is pretty small, let's give $200 for utilities Total: $1475 That leaves $400/month for incidentals. I've seen many folks (including myself in the past) struggle far harder than that and survive. Hell, my mom makes a little under 30k. Has a small house with a similar sized mortgage as your example (for her, the mortgage + tax/property tax is ~500/month), but isn't struggling to survive - she lives within her means; hell she just leased a brand new TSX, and goes on a couple vacations a year. They don't have the kid yet, she is just pregnant. throw in $150/month for vitamins and such as well as Dr's appts and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Eat Rice Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 At that, they should be living just fine off of 30k. Let's say 25% tax rate (probably less, with one working adult with wife and kid at that income tax bracket) = $22,500 a year take home = $1875/month. Bills: Say $300/month for health insurance Home, I'd have to assume with that small of a mortage, after property tax/insurance = $600 Car insurance better not be more than $75/month for a single car Eating like college kids would be $50/week, but let's give them $300/month...about what my wife and I pay, and we don't eat like college kids. I am sure their house is pretty small, let's give $200 for utilities Total: $1475 That leaves $400/month for incidentals. I've seen many folks (including myself in the past) struggle far harder than that and survive. Hell, my mom makes a little under 30k. Has a small house with a similar sized mortgage as your example (for her, the mortgage + tax/property tax is ~500/month), but isn't struggling to survive - she lives within her means; hell she just leased a brand new TSX, and goes on a couple vacations a year. Honestly 30k a year is nothing in this day in age... If you make 30k a year chances are you are living paycheck to paycheck and having a hard time to survive. That equals out to making 15 dollars an hour that is nothing. My moms business grossed a little over 60k this year and she is the owner and the only one that works for it so after all was said and done she grossed in the 50k range and even with the income help of my father they are struggleing to survive in this current recession that we are living in. And they are not living outside of their means what so ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 They don't have the kid yet, she is just pregnant. throw in $150/month for vitamins and such as well as Dr's appts and stuff. Newborns don't cost that much, unless you have shitty insurance or a child with complications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Newborns don't cost that much, unless you have shitty insurance or a child with complications. Because you have kids and you see their outgoing bills. Just because you THINK that they SHOULDN'T cost that much doesn't make it true. I went over their bills with them to try to help them find money. They have about $75 per month left for gas and incidentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWW$HEEET Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Don't have kids if you cant afford them. Always plan for the worst. I can't predict my future so you know what, I don't have kids and don't have a mortgage. Why should the country bear the burden of my mistakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Depends, some companies already pay the highest premium and really don't care. the Federal Gov't and a few big banks in Columbus come to mind. They have 1 paid off car, a $55,000 mortgage, student loans in forbearance and eat like college students. What else do you want them to do? I am assuming she got unemployment. His wife doesn't qualify because she only had 5 months at this job, and she needed 6 to qualify. She didnt get unemployment, My salary was the only one coming in for just under 5 months. Hardest 5 months of our lives. Almost lost the house and my car was up for sale on this site. I now have enough in savings to get us through 8 months and will never touch it until I absolutely need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Don't have kids if you cant afford them. Always plan for the worst. I can't predict my future so you know what, I don't have kids and don't have a mortgage. Why should the country bear the burden of my mistakes? How is her getting laid off because of a problem with the pregnancy her fault? It's not the country's fault either, but that is what the program is for, not for some loser to have 50 kids and not work. the program was meant to help people in need. That is what it needs to do. They could afford a kid just fine when they got pregnant. Maybe you should say the same thing to people that unexpectedly get cancer and can't afford to pay their bills because they have to quit working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Because you have kids and you see their outgoing bills. Just because you THINK that they SHOULDN'T cost that much doesn't make it true. I went over their bills with them to try to help them find money. They have about $75 per month left for gas and incidentals. You really dont have to defend them. Its always harder when you are on the outside looking in. Bills are not that cut and dry.. people are not calculating in the cost of gas to get the work. cleaning supplies, preenatal care like you said, etc... etc... etc. Even when you cut off things like cable and cell phones you still need to catch them up if not pay cancellation fees. I know it took me 3 months to pay off the things I closed. Living off of 30k is possible but its hard transitioning when you are used to living off of more. My mom only made about 35k and had to feed 6 people with it. Being at that point and getting to that point are two diffeent things. You cant just lose an income and rebound overnight people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Because you have kids and you see their outgoing bills. Just because you THINK that they SHOULDN'T cost that much doesn't make it true. I went over their bills with them to try to help them find money. They have about $75 per month left for gas and incidentals. I know exactly how much a kid costs. If you are leaving out any other expenses, then there could be the difference, but I'm not seeing the huge struggle you are mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I know exactly how much a kid costs. If you are leaving out any other expenses, then there could be the difference, but I'm not seeing the huge struggle you are mentioning. You don't really, since I have seen their finances personally. You are assuming you know, but in reality, you don't. $5,000 insurance deduct, 80/20 up to 10,000, average vag birth and prenatal care costs $7500. That means that they will be paying $5,500 out of pocket alone. With your math, that takes their monthly income down to $1416 per month. You came up with $1475 in expenses per month. Now tell me, how is -59 per month with your math "not a huge struggle"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Ok, I'm lost now.. Did she go out to give birth, or go out for a difficult pregnancy????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Ok, I'm lost now.. Did she go out to give birth, or go out for a difficult pregnancy????? Difficult pregnancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormulaMatt Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Difficult pregnancy I'm not dogging your friends here. I know hind sight is always 20/20, but for other people reading this...This is why short term/long term disability insurance is well worth the cost. You just never know when something could go wrong. My wife had complications with our son also, I know how hard it is on the family. I almost lost my wife and son in one day. This insurance came in handy for us and made our life much easier to focus on getting them healthy and not stressing on bills. Good luck to your friends. I hope everything turns out ok for them. Edit: Just read your friend didn't have the option for the disability insurance. My statement still goes for others out there that do. If your employer doesn't offer it, look into another carrier if possible, or get supplemental. One occurrence like this and it more then pays for itself. Edited January 31, 2011 by FormulaMatt re-read thread again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWW$HEEET Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I'm not dogging your friends here. I know hind sight is always 20/20, but for other people reading this...This is why short term/long term disability insurance is well worth the cost. You just never know when something could go wrong. My wife had complications with our son also, I know how hard it is on the family. I almost lost my wife and son in one day. This insurance came in handy for us and made our life much easier to focus on getting them healthy and not stressing on bills. Good luck to your friends. I hope everything turns out ok for them. +1 that is cheap insurance against catastrophic failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Eat Rice Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 How is her getting laid off because of a problem with the pregnancy her fault? It's not the country's fault either, but that is what the program is for, not for some loser to have 50 kids and not work. the program was meant to help people in need. That is what it needs to do. They could afford a kid just fine when they got pregnant. Maybe you should say the same thing to people that unexpectedly get cancer and can't afford to pay their bills because they have to quit working? This is an amazing statement and I must give you a :thumbup:. Couldn't have put it better myself. In a world built all off of chaos you can not plan nothing. For one to say that "I have total control of my life and everything it entails" is a statement so far off from the truth. Control is nothing more than an illusion and an idea to give people a sense of security in a world that is so much bigger than them that one cant even began to understand. Don't have kids if you cant afford them. Always plan for the worst. I can't predict my future so you know what, I don't have kids and don't have a mortgage. Why should the country bear the burden of my mistakes? This lack of sympathy for thy fellow human being is one thing that is seriously wrong with this country. No one seems to be concerned with the greater good anymore. When one is in need they should get help and be granted that help no matter what the circumstances are... I dont see how their family disserves to be punished because of medical complications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormulaMatt Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 They COULD afford it, there were problems with the mom's development during pregnancy so she was put on bedrest. Her job didn't have FMLA or short term disability (office manager of a small Dr's office, go figure) so her only option was to quit. They lost like 40k in income. He is finishing his degree and already works like 60 hours per week. Sorry, just read this. I edited my post. I thought FMLA was a law? Doesn't every employer have to honor this? I've never been somewhere that didn't have it, so I don't know if true or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Sorry, just read this. I thought FMLA was a law? Doesn't every employer have to honor this? I've never been somewhere that didn't have it, so I don't know if true or not. under 10 employees I do not believe so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I'm not dogging your friends here. I know hind sight is always 20/20, but for other people reading this...This is why short term/long term disability insurance is well worth the cost. You just never know when something could go wrong. My wife had complications with our son also, I know how hard it is on the family. I almost lost my wife and son in one day. This insurance came in handy for us and made our life much easier to focus on getting them healthy and not stressing on bills. Good luck to your friends. I hope everything turns out ok for them. Edit: Just read your friend didn't have the option for the disability insurance. My statement still goes for others out there that do. If your employer doesn't offer it, look into another carrier if possible, or get supplemental. One occurrence like this and it more then pays for itself. Yeah, I definitely carry short term insurance as does my fiancee. She also has a private carrier long term insurance that pays her student loans and something like 90% of her salary for the rest of her life. It's like $52 per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 You don't really, since I have seen their finances personally. You are assuming you know, but in reality, you don't. $5,000 insurance deduct, 80/20 up to 10,000, average vag birth and prenatal care costs $7500. That means that they will be paying $5,500 out of pocket alone. With your math, that takes their monthly income down to $1416 per month. You came up with $1475 in expenses per month. Now tell me, how is -59 per month with your math "not a huge struggle"? #1: If his insurance is that shitty, one would assume he isn't dishing out $300/month in premiums #2: Hospitals ALL have very affordable monthly plans, so footing that kind of bill all at once isn't a reality #3: There are other ways to get income. She is staying at home, I assume, after the baby. Get a toddler to babysit @ $100/week (seeing their mortagage rate, that is a fair assumption of the average going rate). What other expenses are you leaving out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 #1: If his insurance is that shitty, one would assume he isn't dishing out $300/month in premiums #2: Hospitals ALL have very affordable monthly plans, so footing that kind of bill all at once isn't a reality #3: There are other ways to get income. She is staying at home, I assume, after the baby. Get a toddler to babysit @ $100/week (seeing their mortagage rate, that is a fair assumption of the average going rate). What other expenses are you leaving out? 1. He works at Lowes, it's that shitty. It's like $147 per chack 2. You do realize that if it is a 12 month payment plan that doesn't change anything right? Plus a lot of it id PRE NATAL care aka before the baby is born 3. She is on bed rest. She isn't allowed to do anything. their house is 1900 sq ft, their utilites are over $300 per month. Let's not forget the medical bills. They are not ok. But you can keep making up numbers and scenarios that aren't true in your head if that makes you feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWW$HEEET Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 This lack of sympathy for thy fellow human being is one thing that is seriously wrong with this country. No one seems to be concerned with the greater good anymore. When one is in need they should get help and be granted that help no matter what the circumstances are... I dont see how their family disserves to be punished because of medical complications. Sorry, I'm not trying to be unsympathetic. I understand tragedies happen, etc. But the when the "greater good" becomes the societal norm, I get a little cynical. i.e. Mortgage gate where people and corporations alike are getting huge bailouts in the form of taxpayer money, when in all actuality it was just bad decision making to begin with. I cant afford a house right now, so I stay my ass out of the market. What ever happened to personal responsibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) but look at all the ....All of these things I have witnessed personally. When and where? And why didn't you report it? Fraud is fraud. My mother worked in a county Human Services (welfare) office from the early 80s through he 90s. It was much different when she left than when she began. If you think it's so easy, advise your friend to get himself fired so they have no income. They should hope easily onto Uncle Sams teet if you are correct. And if you see some one cheating the system, turn them the fuck in. Not just to punish them, but to also give data to the people investigating this stuff, so that it can be detected. PS: The bailouts weren't pity money. No one who passed that actually though the morons needing it were "unlucky". The bailouts were issued because letting the dipshits tank would have unsettled the whole of our economy. The housing industry is a joke and *should never* be allowed to return to what it was. It was inflated and unsustainable, a full "housing market recovery" is one of the worst things that could happen. I submit that it is "over educated economists" who are the problem. There are certain basic principles that are not to be fucked with, and we have a bunch of high-paid asshats out there who think they can cheat them. They think they're smarter and they get proven wrong every time. It's been that way for 2500 years. Facts: To have a healthy nation, the masses need work. To provide work, Employers need to sell product. No smart employer builds product just to sit on it in a warehouse. Demand THEN supply, they build what people are buying. In order for there to be demand for product, the masses need money. In oder for the masses to have money, they need work. If th emasses don't have money, nothing gets bought. If nothing is getting bought, employers have no reason to make anything. If they're not making anything, why hire anybody? That is where we are now, and that is where we will stay until this changes: 25% of the nation controls 90% of the wealth. 1% of the nation "earns" 25% of the money. They cannot spend enough of this money to stimulate growth in the US Investing does nothing if there is no demand and no one buys anything. Todays business culture is not one of producing good product for consumers. It is one of fellating the shareholders and getting them more profits. A portion of every dollar you spend "floats to the top" and into the pockets of some one who essentially did nothing to earn it. They're smart and cunning, and have made a living off of grifting a bit of cash from every transaction possible. They keep doing this, They spend money where it makes money (outside our boarders), and the Pareto distribution wins. It always wins. Edited February 1, 2011 by Science Abuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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