RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Anyone heard of this shit? I guess it's all over CSPAN (though I've yet to watch any of it). Supposedly the ATF and possibly Eric Holder are going to be in some deep shit over all of this. I don't have many details on it right now, but I just caught word of it. Copypasta from CGN: Hillary, Eric, Wikileaks and the BATFE Scandal: An Overview and Timeline UPDATED June 16 09:00: June 15, 2011 - Greta Van Susteren interviews Peter Forcelli, ATF Supervisory Agent after his testimony. June 15, 2011 - NY Times: Top Agency Officials Knew of Disputed Gun Program June 15, 2011 - SF Chronicle: Federal agents testify on guns smuggled to Mexico June 15, 2011 - Washington Post: Wayward policy blamed for agent’s slaying June 15, 2011 - Two LA Times Reports HERE AND HERE June 15, 2011 - Wall Street Journal - Top Brass Cited in Gun Sting June 15, 2011 - USA Today: ATF agent calls gun-tracking program a 'disaster' June 15, 2011 - CBS News: Congress irate over ATF guns-to-Mexico program June 15, 2011 - NPR: ATF Agents: Higher-Ups Let Guns Go To Cartels June 15, 2011 - Newsmax: Issa: ATF Mexican Gun Scandal a Lot Like Iran-Contra June 15, 2011 - Link to C-Span video of today's hearings. Highlights: ATF has disclosed nothing that was not available on the net or had not be completely blacked out. Agent: There is not one rookie cop in this country who could not have told you this program was not going to work. Agent: The gun dealers are our friends. They were ready to help us. They don't like being accused of operating in a "grey market". Question from Rep. Isaa: Is it possible that the real goal of this operation was political? June 14, 2011 18:00 ET - Just ahead of Wednesday's hearing, the House oversight committee releases it's first report. It confirms the worst of the Gunwalker accusations - including that ATF managers were "giddy" when they heard that both violence in Mexico and "gunwalker" gun recoveries were rising. They showed no concern for the innocent Mexicans who were dying. In an earlier video report, Fox News reported that at least one goal of the program was to blame US gun dealers and provide justification for tighter US gun laws. June 14, 2011 - The Tucson Citizen refers to the next day's hearing as "Custer's last stand" for the ATF. They publish a witness list which includes Sen. Grassley, Brian Terry's family, three ATF agents and Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich. June 14, 2011 - The Hill reports the the Dems are trying to blunt the impact of the hearings by asserting that it will impede ongoing criminal investigations. June 13, 2011 - Sharyl Attkisson reports on today's hearings. June 13, 2011 - Video and transcripts from today's hearings. June 13, 2011 - Rep. Issa's from today's hearing, detailing the Administration's cover up. June 13, 2011 - , Rep. Issa accuses the Administration of a systematic cover up. He also links Gunwalker to a coordinated effort between DOJ and gun control groups. June 13, 2011 - In an opinion piece, World Net Daily - the first non-gun media to carry the story - becomes the first outlet to raise the issue of IMPEACHMENT. Roger Hedgecock, reports that, behind the scenes, Republican Congress members consider the actions of the justice department an act of war against Mexico. June 13, 2011 - Fox News reports that hearings held today will focus on the Obama Administration's refusal to respond to subpoenas and other requests for documents, as the first step in a process that will eventually compel compliance. Rep. Issa is quoted as saying, "Now the question is will DOJ give us the documents or will law enforcement officials, little by little, as whistleblowers give us what we want to show this problem goes to the highest levels." June 10, 2011 - Fox News reports that DOJ is in "full panic mode" over next week's hearings. They report that the hearings will reveal that BATFE "knowingly and deliberately flooded Mexico with assault rifles" over the repeated objections of field agents. June 10, 2011 - National Review Online Reports that Rep. Darrell Issa is set to issue a number of subpoenas to federal officials who have ties to “Fast and Furious". The article also notes that the mainstream media is basically ignoring the story. June 10, 2011 - The Herald and News reports that the DOJ is "stonewalling" the congressional investigation. June 10, 2011 - The Pittsburgh Tribute calls for "sunshine" to be applied to the ATF scandal. June 9, 2011 - The Daily Caller Reports that Rep. Issa will hold additional hearings on Wednesday, June 15th. Witnesses will include Sen. Chuck Grassley, Iowa Republican, ATF agents, Justice Department officials and family members of dead Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. June 9, 2011 - UPI finally carries a story on the scandal, predictably downplaying the whole issue. June 9, 2011 - The Wall Street Journal carries a report that Mexican authorities have recovered a large cache of weapons tied to Gunwalker. Jun 7, 2011 - World Net Daily interviews David Codrea of the Gun Rights Examiner, one of the first reporters to break the story. The interview focuses upon Rep. Issa's strategy for the first congressional hearings. Jun 7, 2011 - The Daily Caller reports that the first hearings will focus upon possible obstruction of justice by the Obama administration. Jun 6, 2011 - The Hill reports that Issa's committee will issue a large number of subpoenas to Washington based administration officials. The Hill also reports that interviews of cooperating witnesses in the BATFE and Justice Department have revealed who authorized the operation. June 6, 2011 - CBS News Reports that Issa will hold public hearing beginning June 13th. CBS also reports that 31 House Democrats have joined Republicans in demanding that the administration "promptly provide complete answers to all Congressional inquiries on this issue." This is the first time any Democrats have brought their pressure to bear. June 6, 2011 - CBS News confirms that "Gunwalker" guns - illegally bought in the US with the help of the BATFE, and then smuggled into Mexico under their watchful eyes - were used to shoot down a Mexican military helicopter. June 5, 2011 - Rep. Issa, Chairman of the House Oversight and Reform Committee, announces in a Fox News interview that he will hold public hearings on the ATF scandal this summer. He also stated that he has evidence that the program was approved at "the highest level". He made it clear that he believes it is possible that both Eric Holder and President Obama knew of the program. According to Issa, they have had excellent cooperation in the field and zero cooperation in Washington. June 2, 2011 - A report published today at Examiner.com indicated that a .50 Cal rifle 'walked" into Mexico under the "Fast and Furious" operation may have been used to shoot down a Mexican government helicopter. In addition to the .50 Cal, it is suspected by the ATF that many other guns from the ill fated program were recovered at the shoot out, in which 11 people were killed. Although Examiner.com is not part of the mainstream press, it should be noted that they were among the first to break the Gunwalker story. Cliffs: ATF initiates a program to make it look like US dealers are responsible for guns being used in Mexican drug trafficking to justify stricter gun control laws. Allows and encourages dealers to complete known straw purchases. One of the guns used ends up killing a US LEO. Shit hits the fan and all hell breaks loose when Congress starts making inquiries. DOJ stonewalls Congress for as long as possible and doesn't cooperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmuckingham Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Anyone heard of this shit? I guess it's all over CSPAN (though I've yet to watch any of it). Supposedly the ATF and possibly Eric Holder are going to be in some deep shit over all of this. I don't have many details on it right now, but I just caught word of it. Copypasta from CGN: Cliffs: ATF initiates a program to make it look like US dealers are responsible for guns being used in Mexican drug trafficking to justify stricter gun control laws. Allows and encourages dealers to complete known straw purchases. One of the guns used ends up killing a US LEO. Shit hits the fan and all hell breaks loose when Congress starts making inquiries. DOJ stonewalls Congress for as long as possible and doesn't cooperate. Holy shit, this is news to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 This is going to turn into a shit storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrodh Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Most information I've scene gathered on it one place but I have caught wind of it from a few other firearms geared forums. Pretty crazy stuff, thanks for the post alot of good info here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I heard a little bit about it but I'm really interested to see where this goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangsn95gt Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 First I've heard about this, but glad I know now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 ATF initiates a program to make it look like US dealers are responsible for guns being used in Mexican drug trafficking to justify stricter gun control laws. I'm still not clear on their actual motivation, but reading some of the blogs out there (which go back to February), I'm not seeing any accusations that this is a second amendment issue. Rather, it appears that they were trying to plant future evidence. That is to say, if you take for granted that the drug cartels are going to get their hands on assault weapons anyway, wouldn't it be awesome if they got them from us so that we can trace their use? Figure out who's working with whom, who's trading with whom, where the money is flowing, etc. Seems like the sort of thing that probably sounded good in conference room until someone should have said "But what if federal agents get killed with these weapons?" At which point everyone with a working brain should have realized this was a bad idea. Not to mention, what happened to the proceeds from these gun sales? Iran/Contra anyone? Thanks for posting this. I had no idea this was going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Elsewhere I read that they were being sold restricted, eg: class 3 weapons, on the spot. The cartels had access to far superior weapons than any mexican police or military had. What has gone on here is the war on drugs got so incredibly fucked, that we have decided to start giving guns to the enemies so that we would lose quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 End prohibition. Cartels out of business. Freedom wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 End prohibition. Cartels out of business. Freedom wins. Portugal tried this, and devoted the money to building state-run rehab facilities to help people dry out. Theres no one saying its a rousing success, but drug related crime is waaaaaay down obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Portugal tried this, and devoted the money to building state-run rehab facilities to help people dry out. Theres no one saying its a rousing success, but drug related crime is waaaaaay down obviously. That would be a huge success here if crime was down. Even non drug crime, such as car break ins, are probably people trying to get shit they can sell for drug money. Example: these two http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2011/06/15/story-columbus-bond-set-suspected-car-break-ins.html?sid=102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Those two deserve a bullet in the head. Bragging about how good a thief you are...seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Wayne LaPierre of the NRA has been one of the more outspoken people on the matter. People are actually listening to him about how jacked up this whole thing really is. Granted, it's no better than the .Gov whoring out our old stockpiles of M16's throughout the world. It's going to become the AK of the 21st century here sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Will this be the next Iran-Contra affair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Will this be the next Iran-Contra affair? Doubt it. There's lots of money being swapped in and out of the border. The US Government plays the oblivious card, when Texas DPS and the governor here knows there's a huge problem. I believe it's called Texas Drug War or something like that on Nat Geo. I try to watch it when I can. DPS seems to be the only agency actively promoting offensive style tactics against the drug runners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hillary made some wild claim of us sold guns being the cause of their violence problems, so she had to be sure she could back up her claim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjxlr8 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 What I find quite interesting is that this was discovered MONTHS ago and has been pretty much kept out of main street media until this week. One outlet posts the story and then all of the others feel they have to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furloaf Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Remember 2 years ago what story was being pushed by the main stream media? (when this was project was going on... hmm probably just coincidence....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 well... REPORT: ATF DIRECTOR EXPECTED TO RESIGN UNDER PRESSURE... DEVELOPING... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewhop Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 well... [/indent] Who is next.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hopefully Eric Holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjxlr8 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Hopefully Eric Holder +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Remember 2 years ago what story was being pushed by the main stream media? (when this was project was going on... hmm probably just coincidence....) The story was broken by CBS and aired on the CBS Nightly News. In March. Why Fox didn't pick it up and make it part of their global agenda, I have no idea, but don't sit there and invent the bogeyman of the "mainstream media" not covering this story when it was on CB-frickin'-S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furloaf Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Okay I misspoke; not being pushed by the media, but the White House Administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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