Economy just hit the fan

[ImUrOBGYN]

Shooting one of our major exports and national security in the foot once again. But, I bet they utilize the Clinton motto of less is better. (Until there's a major conflict....) I saw defense cuts coming, but I have a feeling it'll turn drastic. In the same token, it's about time to crack down on illegal aliens not paying taxes and punish those who employ them too. I'd hate to see the figures of illegals not paying taxes.

 

So you are aware, you'd be suprised how many actually do pay taxes straight out of their paychecks. Plus, they don't get to file for them back at the end of the year. I'm not 'illegal hugging' or guessing at this, I know this for a fact from multiple sources, some of them first hand. This is a big reason why they are hired. Companies know this, government knows this. It's just another 'talking point' to distract the people away from our real problems.

 

Of course, that's not all of them. There are some getting away with under the table pay, too, but then so are many of our citizens. Hell, I can't remember the amount of times I've been paid under the table.

[10phone2]

It doesn't matter if they pay taxes or not. They did not go through the proper process to get in the country, simple. If my wife and her family can do along with thousands of others, so can they. She gets so pissed over this topic because she/family thinks is disgusting how they did everything the right way, but others who want to sneak in somehow think that they belong in this country and deserve the same rights.

[Trouble Maker]

...this bill does not reduce the amount we are spending (it "cuts" the rate of increase).

 

I'm glad someone else caught this.... my understanding is that our deficit will continue to go up (hence needing to talk about the debt ceiling again next year), but then go down with a net effect of current plans being a larger deficit in 10 years. :dumb:

 

At least that should mean after a few years from now we should be running a surplus on our yearly budget. Really you can't expect to flick a switch and just turn whole programs off overnight. That would also be a bad idea. In reality we should have taken care of this problem before it was forced on us to take care of it. But that didn't happen so this is what can be done to realistically deal with the current situation.

 

I always like to analogy personal finance decisions. You have a bunch of debt and need to pay it off... you cut back a little here and there, but that usually won't make a big dent. A few years down the road you can pay off your car and start putting that towards debt.

 

Still should have done more... the 4T cut with reduced spending AND increased revenue that most people (including the financial markets) wanted.

[10phone2]

Agreed. The bill was basically a smoke screen to make it look like something was being done. I will not vote for Obama or anyone else who voted for the bill in the next election. The US tried playing the game with S&P and finally someone said enough is enough.

[TTQ B4U]

It's my opinion that we need to ditch income tax and go to a flat sales tax. I spend good money every year on people to do our taxes, because with what we have thing are so damn complicated. Crazy to pay smart people to do something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

[Trouble Maker]

It's my opinion that we need to ditch income tax and go to a flat sales tax. I spend good money every year on people to do our taxes, because with what we have thing are so damn complicated. Crazy to pay smart people to do something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

 

The only problem I have with this is that effectively taxes poor people a larger percentage of their income since they have to spend more of their income (as opposed to people like us who can save some or a decent chunk of their income). That would just make the poor poorer, which is bad for everyone (including the rich people).

 

But yes, the current systems is fucked and needs thrown out.

[Mensan]

So you are aware, you'd be suprised how many actually do pay taxes straight out of their paychecks. Plus, they don't get to file for them back at the end of the year. I'm not 'illegal hugging' or guessing at this, I know this for a fact from multiple sources, some of them first hand. This is a big reason why they are hired. Companies know this, government knows this. It's just another 'talking point' to distract the people away from our real problems.

 

Add to this the fact that they make little enough to qualify for EIC and our tax burden increases significantly.

 

It doesn't matter if they pay taxes or not. They did not go through the proper process to get in the country, simple. If my wife and her family can do along with thousands of others, so can they. She gets so pissed over this topic because she/family thinks is disgusting how they did everything the right way, but others who want to sneak in somehow think that they belong in this country and deserve the same rights.

 

This post is off topic. What we are talking about is the federal budget and the problems faced with how people pay taxes and how our money is spent. I'm not saying your post is incorrect, but that argument does not belong in this thread.

[TTQ B4U]

The Gov't needs to begin focusing on our own people and less on everyone else. I'm sorry but all the shit we get involved with, not even looking at wars, needs to stop or be put in check. We're giving away money we don't have and money that we do which needs spent here inside our own borders on our own people.

[LJ]

It's pretty simple to fix the mess we are in.

 

Balanced budget amendment

Raise top tax rates and capital gains 1% and earmark the current estimate of that revenue for paying down the debt. Reevaluate every year.

 

Boom. AAA rating back. Country working it's way out of debt.

[wagner]

It's pretty simple to fix the mess we are in.

 

Balanced budget amendment

Raise top tax rates and capital gains 1% and earmark the current estimate of that revenue for paying down the debt. Reevaluate every year.

 

Boom. AAA rating back. Country working it's way out of debt.

 

Your plan has a fatal flaw, it makes to much sense. No current elected official will support something that puts pressure on the rich. There is not enough money in it for them ...

[LJ]

Your plan has a fatal flaw, it makes to much sense. No current elected official will support something that puts pressure on the rich. There is not enough money in it for them ...

 

Problem is, most "rich" people I know are ok with a 1% increase. The problem is, the Democrats want to raise taxes enough to cover spending and the Republicans want to cut spending enough to cover the budget AND the debt. Raising taxes to cover spending is something like a 3-4% increase in income and even more in capital gains. The answer IS right in the middle, but no one will move off of their stances. It's ridiculous.

[Trouble Maker]

Problem is, most "rich" people I know are ok with a 1% increase. The problem is, the Democrats want to raise taxes enough to cover spending and the Republicans want to cut spending enough to cover the budget AND the debt. Raising taxes to cover spending is something like a 3-4% increase in income and even more in capital gains. The answer IS right in the middle, but no one will move off of their stances. It's ridiculous.

 

Funny, your exact idea is what the gang of 6 came to congress with and what Obama AND Boehner backed and it was rejected by the republicans. :fuuuu:

 

It would have covered the 4T that 'everyone' wanted too and actually lowered our actual deficit over 10 years.

[10phone2]

dfd Edited August 7, 2011 by 10phone2

[AWW$HEEET]

Lance, I'm surprised you advocate any increase in capital gains tax. Tisk tisk.

[LJ]

Lance, I'm surprised you advocate any increase in capital gains tax. Tisk tisk.

 

I said by 1%. If we don't make tiny sacrifices now, we won't have a country in 20 years.

[AWW$HEEET]

I said by 1%. If we don't make tiny sacrifices now, we won't have a country in 20 years.

 

People injecting $ via private investment shouldn't be penalized. They are directly supporting the growth of the economy.

 

Why not restructure the tax system some other way and cut spending? I suggest we stop playing world police and quit giving foreign aid before we impose tax increases on an already plagued economy.

[LJ]

People injecting $ via private investment shouldn't be penalized. They are directly supporting the growth of the economy.

It's not penalizing them. It's getting this country back to where it should be. Your $500,000 earner will pay an extra $5,000 in taxes. Yep, takes away an extra job doesn't it . It's time to make sacrifies or there won't be a country to sacrifice for.

 

Why not restructure the tax system some other way and cut spending?

Show me one that A. works B. could actually gain support C. not ruin an industry

I suggest we stop playing world police and quit giving foreign aid before we impose tax increases on an already plagued economy.

 

Cutting spending is all well and good, but the debt needs to be repaid

[LJ]

What surprises me is that so many people who would suck Dave Ramsey's dick are so against sacrificing in the short term to pay off debt.

[Putty]

So... how many here think that Obama is the CAUSE of this?

 

:gabe:

 

KillJoy

 

 

I was waiting for this...lol. I'm sure he's 90% of the reason.

[RedRocket1647545505]

I think a major problem with this country is that there's no-term limit on Congress. None of those son of a bitches will make an intelligent decision that would help this country because they're so afraid it will hurt their chances at re-election. I'm of the opinion that if they knew they couldn't get re-elected, no matter what, that they'd start doing what's best for the country and no what's best for themselves.

 

The other thing that people need to realize (as LJ's pointed out), is that the whole country is going to have to make some sacrifices in order to get back on its' feet. It's not going to magically get better on it's own. The cuts (and money) are gonna have to come from somewhere.

[copperhead]

The only problem I have with this is that effectively taxes poor people a larger percentage of their income since they have to spend more of their income (as opposed to people like us who can save some or a decent chunk of their income). That would just make the poor poorer, which is bad for everyone (including the rich people).

 

But yes, the current systems is fucked and needs thrown out.

 

It would be simple enough to take the items that are needs, such as anything covered by food stamps, and make them tax free. You want a brand new big screen tv? Tax the shit out of it. You want eggs milk bread and tp? Tax free at the register. And that's for everyone, not just someone with a government card.

 

Also, it wouldn't hurt to add a small tax to all imports. This has been done before, and while other countries (China) throw giant fits about it, it increases revenue and encourages US manufacturing growth.

[craig71188]

The issue I have with ANY tax increase is the dickweeds in congress will find a way to spend it, period.

 

I do like "the penny plan" that has been introduced. Cap spending at this years level (already bloated ffrom various Obama spending increases since his term began) - then cut 1% per year for the next 8-10 years. Instead of baseling budgeting with a 7-8% per year increase EVERY YEAR, we hold the line and reduct our spending to just over our actual spening of 1-2 years ago.

 

We will still need a well crafted balanced budget amendment - not to exceed 18% of GDP - along with controls so the then current repesentatives can't do some stupid "trick" to avoid doing their jobs.

[10phone2]

So far the markets across the world have lost 2.5% - 5.5% on average so far. Monday will probally 200-300 point loss at best for the stock market.

[Mallard]

...(already bloated ffrom various Obama spending increases since his term began)...

 

So is the giant deficit Obama's fault?

 

 

http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2011/07/25/george_bush_owns_the_deficit/chart.jpg

 

The bottom line is, spending needs cut, revenue increased, and tariffs increased (to promote domestic production of goods). We're going to have to feel some pain in order to get into a position where we can start paying some debt off. We'll probably never stop being the world police because too many foreign nations own US debt, although if our credit rating keeps dropping who cares if they threaten to call our debt.

[Forrest Gump 9]

It's my opinion that we need to ditch income tax and go to a flat sales tax. I spend good money every year on people to do our taxes, because with what we have thing are so damn complicated. Crazy to pay smart people to do something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

 

Now that would be a fast way to shut down the "spendy economy" like the US economy.