TTQ B4U Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I don't think you should base it on student performance, because that's not the teacher's performance. You then also run into issues with teachers for special needs students. I agree, you shouldn't punish the teachers. How about making parents responsible? How about the vast majority of Americans who don't pay any taxes or get refunds be required to earn it based on the performance of their kid? Let's not give back tax money, let's make people earn it by shutting off the damn TV and spending time doing homework with their kids? Isn't it about time parents toss the Xbox as their baby sitter and perhaps work through some math problems with their own kids? Hell, the parents might actually learn something. I'm sorry Mr. and Mrs. $50k per year family, but if your kids fuck around in school and you can't actually RAISE your kids to CONTRIBUTE to society and don't become ACCOUNTABLE for them as you should, then perhaps you're shouldn't get the tax breaks you do get to go buy Xboxes and LCD TV's you shouldn't even be giving to your kids who suck in school in the first place. How about we make people earn what they get by staying in good health? Why the fuck should I pay taxes to go towards all these medical and food programs when I see a bunch of unhealthy people parking in handicap spaces at WalMart only to come out with junk food, smokes and beer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmonda Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I go to work, make money and pay taxes. Then...greedy government workers steal your tax dollars so they can live better than those of us actually contributing to the GNP. VOTE YES ON 2!!!!! It's time we all learn how to budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I am in for increasing funding for teachers and decreasing ways to abuse the retirement system for govt/state employees. Teachers should be respected as much as doctors in this country. If you think otherwise something is wrong with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yea retire/rehire is a bit crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 No, what am I missing here? You can't quantify "Do you know what the fuck you are doing?" Which, I agree, is the most important question to ask. At a private school, the administration would just sit down and say, "Does Joe know what the fuck he is doing?" And they'd discuss it and give him a raise based on the results of the discussion. In the gov't sector, if they did that and Sally got less than Joe (which she'd find out about because all gov't jobs are a matter of public record), she'd be able to sue. The school would have to show documentation to the effect that Sally didn't know what the fuck she was doing but Joe did. Which means they need to quantify it. The result is that every gov't job has some kind of retarded appraisal system. You get ranked in certain categories, probably on some kind of a number scale. The categories need to be quantifiable as well. Any room for interpretation is a potential for grievances. Which is why everyone comes back to student test scores, because they're easily quantifiable and as a teacher, you can't say shit about it. Joe's students tested better than yours, Sally, so sit down and color. It all gets to be overly complicated and shitty, and on average the people want this, because inefficiency is generally agreed to be better than corruption. With the shitty appraisal system, you eliminate scenarios wherein Joe's father gets elected to the school board and uses his charm, good looks, and ability to accept large bribes to get Joe more raises. I also don't have solutions to these problems, which is why I have no desire to work in the public sector anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I am in for increasing funding for teachers and decreasing ways to abuse the retirement system for govt/state employees. Teachers should be respected as much as doctors in this country. If you think otherwise something is wrong with you. So isn't it about time that the people force the states to react and provide the funding for the teachers out of their own budgets that are being mis-manged already? What's throwing more money at a broken system going to do besides prolong the problem? I'm not saying don't support teachers, I'm saying help the teachers change the system that so that their system can support them better. Of course there's going to be pain for some that are reaping the rewards that are hurting the system today. That's okay, the pain they are being spared today is killing the future for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You can't quantify "Do you know what the fuck you are doing?" Which, I agree, is the most important question to ask. At a private school, the administration would just sit down and say, "Does Joe know what the fuck he is doing?" And they'd discuss it and give him a raise based on the results of the discussion. In the gov't sector, if they did that and Sally got less than Joe (which she'd find out about because all gov't jobs are a matter of public record), she'd be able to sue. The school would have to show documentation to the effect that Sally didn't know what the fuck she was doing but Joe did. Which means they need to quantify it. So instead of trying to quantify something that can't be, change the system to one that's been working since the start of the employer/employee relationship. I know...easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Fuck SB5 and the lawmakers who came up with it. From what I understand, and I could be wrong the lawmakers pay and benifits don't get touched? Becuase they aren't in the Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Teachers should be respected as much as doctors in this country. If you think otherwise something is wrong with you. Then according to you, there is something wrong with me. Someone that went to school for almost a decade, and countless hours of studying, training and preparation does not deserve to be on the same page as someone who went to a community college for a year or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Also, my biggest thing is, why should any government employee be able to strike against the taxpayer? I understand Union negotiated salaries and all that, but seriously, public servants striking against the taxpayers? GTFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Then according to you, there is something wrong with me. Someone that went to school for almost a decade, and countless hours of studying, training and preparation does not deserve to be on the same page as someone who went to a community college for a year or 2. Where can you become a teacher with only going to college for a year or 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Where can you become a teacher with only going to college for a year or 2? A friend of mine is now a teacher at Westerville (north or south, i forget which one) after taking classes for no more than the last 2 years. She did have some bullshit college degree prior to that, completely unrelated to education. Now she's a math teacher, doesn't know shit about math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I know...easier said than done. Yup. If you had an iron fist, you could "fix" the system real quick, but in 20 years people would be bitching about corruption and favoritism and whatnot, and I'm not naive enough to think that the kids would suddenly start getting smarter either. It's just always going to be messy, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 A friend of mine is now a teacher at Westerville (north or south, i forget which one) after taking classes for no more than the last 2 years. She did have some bullshit college degree prior to that, completely unrelated to education. Now she's a math teacher, doesn't know shit about math. So she went to school for 6 years, not 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 So she went to school for 6 years, not 2 4 of it wasn't for teaching or math. It was fucking political science. I refuse to believe that it counts towards it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Now THAT I hate... I know people getting jobs (such as guidance counselors) and not having a related degree, they just get a masters in guidance and on top of that they have never taught in a classroom. How can you be in a support position for teachers and students and NEVER have taught in a classroom. Some reform needs to be done for sure. But let's be honest, you need a 4 year degree to be a teacher, plus the state requires you to get your masters after a certain period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You can also go to med school with a poli sci degree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You can also go to med school with a poli sci degree... Well fuck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You can also go to med school with a poli sci degree... You can get into med school with no degree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 So isn't it about time that the people force the states to react and provide the funding for the teachers out of their own budgets that are being mis-manged already? What's throwing more money at a broken system going to do besides prolong the problem? I'm not saying don't support teachers, I'm saying help the teachers change the system that so that their system can support them better. Of course there's going to be pain for some that are reaping the rewards that are hurting the system today. That's okay, the pain they are being spared today is killing the future for everyone. There is a lot of things it is "time for" in this country. This happens to be one of them. I hope the violent abuse from law enforcement against peaceful protesters occupying **** is enough to start change. “Those who make peaceful revolutions impossible will make violent revolutions inevitable” - John Fitzgerald Kennedy Then according to you, there is something wrong with me. Someone that went to school for almost a decade, and countless hours of studying, training and preparation does not deserve to be on the same page as someone who went to a community college for a year or 2. Why? If someone has more knowledge and experience then someone with less why would you NOT treat them differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 A friend of mine is now a teacher at Westerville (north or south, i forget which one) after taking classes for no more than the last 2 years. She did have some bullshit college degree prior to that, completely unrelated to education. Now she's a math teacher, doesn't know shit about math. You can also go to med school with a poli sci degree... Put more funding into education in general and this will change. It should be harder to become a teacher. Money is a great motivator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 But the point is, you don't have to know shit about math to be a math teacher. I bet she will be an excellent teacher. If I could deal with kids and their bullshit, and knew how to make learning hip and cool for them kids, I could teach fucking rocket science as long as I had wikipedia. Yes, it would be better to learn from an actual rocket scientist but they're too busy being rocket scientists. Teachers are teachers for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I love how people just throw teachers under the bus like they are a food service worker or cashier at Lowe's. Asshole kids have asshole parrents. When mom and dad don't care not even Marry Fuckin Poppins could help the kids. Parrents treat school as a baby sitting service while they are at work or sitting at home collecting welfare. Then to top it off you have the parrents who bitch when there is "to much homework" or "school is to hard' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 "to much homework" or "school is to hard' Teachers obviously didn't help you much in the spelling department. :lolguy: Teachers deserve credit for what they do. The kids are our future and all those other cliche's, but they don't need more than what they actually deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWW$HEEET Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 they chose the profession. deal with it. yes the wages are shit, and you get to deal with other ppls bratty kids. you knew this coming in. no sympathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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