Jonan1647545505 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 My 02 Honda Civic Ex 1.7 sohc vtec, completely stock, recently developed a misfire on cyl 2 & 3 only. CEL came on and gave codes 0300 - random mis detected 0302 - mis cyl 2 0303 - mis cyl 3 1456 - Evap control system leakage (fuel tank system) Tighted gas cap and that code is GONE now, it usually comes on after 4+hrs of driving after a refuel tho 1298 - ELD(Electronic Load Detector) High voltage, Common problem with this generation Civic, ~$35 part from Honda. Honda said this will not cause misfire problems as it is related to the charging system I changed my timing belt at 120k, Im now at 167k. Since the misfires occurred I have replaced spark plugs with OEM NGKs since they were white ashy looking, did a full valve adjustment, all the exhaust valves were out of adjustment and the only the left intake valve was too tight on every cyl (thought that was odd), I adjusted all valves to spec tho. And now it idles smoother and quieter and only took about 3hrs with a lunch break Also moved the coils around to see if the mis followed the coil which it didnt... Next I will replace the fuel filter since its never been done. The mis happens in every gear, speed, rpm while maintaining a constant speed, my commute is ~50mins. Almost never misfires while idling and never during quick acceleration. Fuel pump? is there a fuel pressure regulator/sensor that could be at fault? Any additional advice would be appreciated I dont want to throw too much money at it... $7 plugs + $8 feeler gauge + $5 taco bell = $20 not bad so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 you could try having the fuel injectors cleaned, but with the computer codes it sounds like a spark issue. have you tried putting the spark plugs on the coil then setting them on the valve cover (or something metal anyhow) then having a friend turn the engine over to see if you get good spark? does each coil have a seperate fuse or relay or something? may be a place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted January 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 you could try having the fuel injectors cleaned, but with the computer codes it sounds like a spark issue. have you tried putting the spark plugs on the coil then setting them on the valve cover (or something metal anyhow) then having a friend turn the engine over to see if you get good spark? does each coil have a seperate fuse or relay or something? may be a place to start. this civic has coils literally on each spark plug. I have not checked the actual spark yet. I will also try moving the injectors to see if the mis moves, thats probably what try next and change the fuel filter while the pressure is off. Ive also read online that a mis fire like this may be a head gasket leak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I would def start by moving plugs, coils, and injectors around to see if the misfire goes to a different cylinder. Other wise since 2 and 3 are next to each other a head gasket is very possible, running a compression test should show those two cylinders low if a head gasket is blown, then a leak down test to verify that is the issue. I suppose you could just run leak down (it takes longer to do then compression) and see if it blows air out of the other spark plug hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351mach11647545510 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 You said the plugs were ashy which usually means it's lean. I would lean towards a fuel issue like injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 I would be hard-pressed to rule out a faulty crank position sensor.....on 3 different cars,I had had crank sensors that didn t throw CPS codes but rather simply misfire codes Follow Scott's advice 1st though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 UPDATE: Moved injectors around....now only a misfire on cyl 2... wtf? Also did a hot and cold resistance test on injectors, all were the same and within Honda specs. Completed a compression test cyl 1&2 @ 130psi cyl 3&4 @ 122psi. I do not have the tools to complete a leak down test. So whats next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351mach11647545510 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 UPDATE: Moved injectors around....now only a misfire on cyl 2... wtf? Also did a hot and cold resistance test on injectors, all were the same and within Honda specs. Completed a compression test cyl 1&2 @ 130psi cyl 3&4 @ 122psi. I do not have the tools to complete a leak down test. So whats next? Injector might be clogged. Also would clean out the fuel rail too. As for leakdown, if you think that might be an issue, you could just get a rough idea by checking compression and leaving it as is for a few and gauge how much it drops and how quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaddyBuiltRacing Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 My kid sister has an 01 Civic and her car was doing the same thing. Ended up being the Crank sensor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 update: Car has been sitting for about month now. it left me stranded on the way to work one day... it died like i was out of gas, so i put a gallon in and still wouldnt start back up, had it towed home and has sat ever since. I can hear the fuel pump run when i turn the key on and it sounds right, but still wont start. I read that a faulty fuel pressure regulator, in the tank, causes random missfires, fouls plugs, decreased power and fuel economy. I just lost my job and cannot afford to throw money at it or pay a shop, ive got plenty of time to tinker tho. i also tested the crank position sensor and its with in specs. any input would appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 got the car running again, apparently timing jumped 2 teeth retimed, new tbelt, inspected water pump and tensioner, rechecked valve clearances, replaced #2 injector, rechecked compression (within spec), also check coil packs by having my girl hold the engine at 2krpms and unplugging each coil pack all dropped to ~1600rpms.... runs just fine at idle, still has random misfire on #2 while moving only at a constant speed or accel. if the #2 valves were damaged wouldnt the misfire be constant?? im scheduled at a local shop next week for diagnosis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinisterSS Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 was the engine temp below 100 degrees when you adjusted the valves? when you did the adjustment make sure the engine was on TDC for #1, then turn and do #3, turn again to do #4 and final turn for #2 in that order. I had a Honda Element that had a similar misfire on #3 only, after running the diagnostic checks it pointed towards a valve adjustment, after the adjustment misfire was gone. Now you said the timing was off 2 teeth? how did that happen? if so there's a chance you may have a bent valve in that cylinder, but I would retrace your steps with the valve adjustment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 was the engine temp below 100 degrees when you adjusted the valves? when you did the adjustment make sure the engine was on TDC for #1, then turn and do #3, turn again to do #4 and final turn for #2 in that order. I had a Honda Element that had a similar misfire on #3 only, after running the diagnostic checks it pointed towards a valve adjustment, after the adjustment misfire was gone. Now you said the timing was off 2 teeth? how did that happen? if so there's a chance you may have a bent valve in that cylinder, but I would retrace your steps with the valve adjustment yep the car had sat for a week or 2 so the temp was well below 100degrees. found tdc on #1 and rotated the engine all the way around stopping at each cyl in firing order and confirmed timing was correct, i repeated this twice just to be sure before putting it all back together. there was a woodruff key in the timing cover that had assumably come from when i first did the tbelt at 120k (now at 170k) a few years back. I will quadruple check the vavles but i am very confident that the vavles are adjusted properly. I found a salvage yard that has a couple heads for 250$ea. thats more than i paid for an engine for my last civic, tho it was a 90 dx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted August 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 ok for anyone that care to know, my random misfire was due to clogged EGR passages. EGR ports on this engine are in a 1.5-2" plate between the head and the intake manifold. Coolant had to be drained everything unhooked took a few hours to get it out, the bolts/nuts that hold the mani on are not easily accessible... here are some pics: http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/elfboy98/clogged.jpg Clogged pretty good http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/elfboy98/side1c.jpg cyl 4 & 3 http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/elfboy98/side2c.jpg cyl 2 & 1 http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/elfboy98/cleaned.jpg Cleaned, notice all the carbon! http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/elfboy98/side1.jpg cyl 4 & 3 http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/elfboy98/side2.jpg cyl 2 & 1 took only a few mins to clean used carb cleaner and a flat blade screwdriver, but now no more CEL codes and smooth operation! i also replaced the EGR valve since it was stuck, tho i didnt have any EGR codes?? hope this helps someone who is super stumped with random misfires!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhillbilly Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Any idea what caused the excessive buildup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 not really sure. one mechanic said it happens a lot with this year engine. it always ran great never a single problem before this and i always got 35-39mpg. dropped to about ~30, had lack of power and ran inconsistently rough. egr was stuck and had carbon build up but had no CEL codes for egr system just the random misfire codes.? all is well now tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 UPDATE: P0420 Catalyst deficiency. Cat came apart. Mechanic installed new one. Runs good until warm smokey, smells like gun powder/carbon. No new codes yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky31186 Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Will smell like that until the conv. Is broken in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) well its burning oil now and all 4 plugs are completely covered in carbon. doing compression test and leak down today... i hope my valves are ok.... and further more my rings.... Compression is excellent 195-200psi on all four Checking the PCV valve tomorrow. Edited November 13, 2012 by Jonan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Ok so the head has come off, valve guides/seals replaced, machine shop said the exhaust side guides and seals were toast. $301 head job. the head is back in and I'm almost done putting her back together... so far its been about 6months and $1500 in parts(only paid ~$150 in labor for cat install and diag a couple times...) Still no idea what caused it... its looking like the egr valve not throwing a code to alert me to the problem until it was too late... Its gonna be a "brand new" car when its back together tho!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonan1647545505 Posted January 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Latest update: Drove the car with no problems for a couple of days... p1259 Vtec Malfunction. Took off the Vtec manifold(?) that houses the vtec solenoid and the vtec oil pressure switch, filter screen was clean. Could drive the car if you accelerated slower and kept it under 3k rpm with no problems. If you tried to accelerate quickly the car would buck pretty bad. Drove the car easy for about a week, took off the vtec manifold andthe screen filter had some sludge, cleaned, reinstalled, did an oil change. Drove the car and checked the vtec manifold sceen and it was clean, still had 1259 code and CEL. Replaced vtec manifold with Honda part. Light went away for 3 weeks and vtec was back! Decided safe to drive to Ohio to visit the family. Changed oil before we left just because. After 3hrs of driving CEL is back on and with code 1259... We got a hotel room, went to dinner and drank some tequila. Next day drove back to NC and drank some more tequila. Just hooked up an oil pressure gauge. Idle is right where it should be once warm ~10-15psi. However at 3k rpm for vtec pressure must be a min of 50psi, I have ~40psi... I'm sure most of all the work I've done has be a result of a combination of many factors but I'm basically done with this car. My question for everyone: will it be ok to drive the car without adequate oil pressure to activate the vtec system with the CEL on, since from what I understand about the 1259 code is that the system is disabled and therefore the cam wont engage to affect the valve timing. OR do I need to replace the oil pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinisterSS Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Honda service news: VTEC Engine Hesitates During Acceleration NOTE: This article applies to ’94–02 Accords with VTEC, ’92–02 Civics with VTEC, ’93–01 Preludes with VTEC, ’00–02 S2000s, ’00–02 Insights, and ’99–02 Odysseys. If your customer complains that the engine hesitates briefly when accelerating, chances are the ECM/PCM is ordering fuel cutoff because of low or delayed engine oil pressure to the VTEC system. Typical causes for low or delayed oil pressure are low oil level, a dented oil pan that’s touching the oil pickup screen, or some other oil flow restriction. When the throttle opening, vehicle speed, engine coolant temperature, and engine speed indicate that VTEC is needed, the ECM/PCM turns on the VTEC solenoid valve. Oil pressure should immediately turn off the VTEC oil pressure switch. But if the switch stays on (because of low oil pressure), the ECM/PCM orders fuel cutoff and shuts off all the fuel injectors. Normally the ECM/PCM turns on the MIL and sets DTC P1259 (VTEC system malfunction). But if the oil pressure switch turns off before the ECM/PCM sets the DTC, the engine hesitates and then runs normally. To fix this engine hesitation, troubleshoot the oil level or oil supply problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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