Honest, civilized vote.

[iwishiwascool]

I prefer to look a the facts as to who supported the practices to allow lower income Americans with shitty credit histories the ability to buy a home at the expense of others. Facts are that practice was put in Motion by Clinton and we're left with the results. He also thought NAFTA was a good move and again, we're paying the price. No need to debate the reality of what we were given under his role as PODUS. Obama's results are also proof that four more years of his leadership will plunge us further into oblivion. Welcome to the American Dream as defined by the Dems. Come buy a house with no money down, where we don't care about your credit. You deserve a chance to live the dream. Then go furnish it and further live the dream by refinancing it beyond what it's worth, we don't care. Don't understand what you're signing? We don't care, just sign the papers, it will all work out, we promise....and in a few more years, we'll cover your healthcare too.

 

Again no time... You do realize that only one of the top 25 subprime mortgage lenders was subject to affordable housing laws... Right? 84% were funded by private lenders. So Barney Frank is culpable, right up until you look at the actual numbers.

[SpaceGhost]

Tim isn't it "POTUS" President of the United States?

[TTQ B4U]

Again no time... You do realize that only one of the top 25 subprime mortgage lenders was subject to affordable housing laws... Right? 84% were funded by private lenders. So Barney Frank is culpable, right up until you look at the actual numbers.

 

Bottom line is the Clinton administration tried to encourage home ownership for the lower middle class and poor, rolling the dice that having flexibility in lending to such people would lead to growth of the middle class. You watch, in 20 more years the same "teflon" bullshit will be bounced around about Obama fucking up healthcare in the US.

 

Bill Clinton has spoken on the subject and even he stated that the fault lies with the Democratic Congress for resisting MORE regulation from the Republicans and his administration. So instead of controlling things, they let the system go out of control.

 

Obama is tied to ACORN who bullied the banks and lenders. I remember when this all happened. They went to the extent of harassing bank officials and picketing their homes and offices if a real estate mortgage loan had been declined a poor applicant. The results were called long before the bubble burst.

 

Until the people in this country stop trying to make the poor the new middle class, we're going to continue getting what we aim for....Poverty, The New Middle Class. I'm sorry but what we once new as The American Dream needs to be worked for and trying to figure a way to get poor people to be home owners wasn't the answer. Trying to support them as if they are the working middle class isn't the way either. It's ironic that that deadbeat who won the lottery died. Proof that throwing money at them isn't going to fix them either. They have to help themselves first.

[Forrest Gump 9]

Root of all the problems we have right now is job. If we can bring the job back to the US that will fix 95% of the problems. If one can sent away the jobs, one can find the way to bring them back (that's what I'm banking on).

 

When I say jobs, I mean private sector jobs not government jobs. Private sector jobs generate tax revenue. Government jobs cost tax dollars and we all know that go.

[iwishiwascool]

Bottom line is the Clinton administration tried to encourage home ownership for the lower middle class and poor, rolling the dice that having flexibility in lending to such people would lead to growth of the middle class. You watch, in 20 more years the same "teflon" bullshit will be bounced around about Obama fucking up healthcare in the US.

 

Bill Clinton has spoken on the subject and even he stated that the fault lies with the Democratic Congress for resisting MORE regulation from the Republicans and his administration. So instead of controlling things, they let the system go out of control.

 

Obama is tied to ACORN who bullied the banks and lenders. I remember when this all happened. They went to the extent of harassing bank officials and picketing their homes and offices if a real estate mortgage loan had been declined a poor applicant. The results were called long before the bubble burst.

 

Until the people in this country stop trying to make the poor the new middle class, we're going to continue getting what we aim for....Poverty, The New Middle Class. I'm sorry but what we once new as The American Dream needs to be worked for and trying to figure a way to get poor people to be home owners wasn't the answer. Trying to support them as if they are the working middle class isn't the way either. It's ironic that that deadbeat who won the lottery died. Proof that throwing money at them isn't going to fix them either. They have to help themselves first.

 

Dude, your arguments before were at least well researched and reasoned. Now you are just starting to sound like every other pundit. Your referenced quote is truncated. Here is the full version:

 

CLINTON: Well, maybe everybody does that a little bit. I think the responsibility that the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was president to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I think the biggest mistake, by the way, that contributed to the current circumstance that almost nobody talks about, is the repeal after decades of something called the uptick rule --

 

So in light of the actual facts that I put forth that shows that, if anything, Barney only showed for-profit private equity that the poor could be profitable and they did it on their own, you completely dismiss the realities that the elimination of certain SEC regulations, the uptick being arguably even less important than Glass-Steagall.

 

I'll admit that there were a calamity of errors that went into the boom and bust of the aughts... I'll admit that Democrats share responsibility. If you ignore the reality that the economy is a complex machine and truly believe this black/white rhetoric you are spouting, Tim; you are no better than the simple people you think you are better than.

[iwishiwascool]

Root of all the problems we have right now is job. If we can bring the job back to the US that will fix 95% of the problems. If one can sent away the jobs, one can find the way to bring them back (that's what I'm banking on).

 

When I say jobs, I mean private sector jobs not government jobs. Private sector jobs generate tax revenue. Government jobs cost tax dollars and we all know that go.

 

That's a complex problem, far more so than just saying "bring [manufacturing] jobs back". In a global economy, labor costs are a function of profitability. The only way to bring those jobs "back" is to either lower the cost of labor here or increase the cost to business who offshore labor costs. The former is obviously not an option (I'd argue that the Koch Brothers don't think so) and the latter is would be isolationist government oversight and violate every free-trade treaty we have. Prices for the rest of our imported goods would skyrocket.

 

The only real solution is to innovate and create a new economy. Big businesses are lumbering and slow while start-ups, despite a high fail rate, often are the catalysts. So how do we encourage innovation and small businesses? Encourage investment capital to specific types of businesses.

 

I am fine with increasing capital gain taxes on investments made outside of these types of innovators, Obama needs to take a hard look before pulling the trigger on increasing all capital gains.

[smokin5s]

Ron Paul... I will NOT vote for anyone else... he's what America needs, not Obama and surely not Romney!

[TTQ B4U]

No sense in arguing, I stand by my points already mentioned that the downfall we're in is something Obama can't fix and has no track record of knowing how to fix. He's talks a great game though. If we stand by trying to spend our way out of things and have a President that was stupid enough to think stimulus packages to people was the answer, we'll get more of what we have today.

 

Add to that he's the type of President who feels Gov't needs to be more involved and is going to be the saviors of those in need, we're really headed for the poor house.

 

The financial position this country and it's people are in is a fucking train wreck and if anyone thinks Obama and Biden have a clue come close to having a clue how to fix it, please show me what they have done to even make a dent or their past experience doing so on any level. If they knew how they would have done it or showed us clearly that we're on track. $16T and millions out of work doesn't equate to success.

[thorne]

No sense in arguing, I stand by my points already mentioned that the downfall we're in is something Obama can't fix and has no track record of knowing how to fix. He's talks a great game though. If we stand by trying to spend our way out of things and have a President that was stupid enough to think stimulus packages to people was the answer, we'll get more of what we have today.

 

Add to that he's the type of President who feels Gov't needs to be more involved and is going to be the saviors of those in need, we're really headed for the poor house.

 

The financial position this country and it's people are in is a fucking train wreck and if anyone thinks Obama and Biden have a clue come close to having a clue how to fix it, please show me what they have done to even make a dent or their past experience doing so on any level. If they knew how they would have done it or showed us clearly that we're on track. $16T and millions out of work doesn't equate to success.

 

Since the country has never been in a position like this every NO ONE has experience to fix it. it's all Benchracing persay.

 

:lolguy:

[TTQ B4U]

Since the country has never been in a position like this every NO ONE has experience to fix it. it's all Benchracing persay.

 

The irony in this anology would be Mark aka Atomic Fusion is Romney and Dwiggs is Obama. Obama hasn't bailed out a plugged up bath tub let alone a company in distress. No different than Dwiggs hasn't raced his turd down the track.

[thorne]

"Obama's done a ton"?

 

Is the real unemployment rate lower? How about all of your friends that barely eek out a living without relying on a tax break to write off expenses? To quote my man Denzel on this one: "you cant bullshit a bullshitter".

--- My friends? Most of my friends household income is 100K+ Again making assumptions like osu GT?

 

 

Fact is, Affordable Care Act has done nothing except for diverting Medicare funds to an unproven program that informs Americans about options supported by a private-sector healthcare industry. 2,000 Americans dead in Obama's war in Afghanistan. $17 Trillion in debt that my children are inheriting...

---- So you start with healthcare and then move to WAR...What other wars have taken Americans lives in the history of your life? Desert Storm Desert Shield?

 

---- Obamacare has made most preventive treatments FREE to the end user. By doing this in theory the cost of acute illness should drop and the quality of life for everyone goes up.

 

I can cite NPR references to denegrate Obama, but with your "Magic underwear" references aside, I'll take a multi-millionaire that's been far more succesful in business over your drug-addicted, Communist-associating, attention-whore from a broken family as President of the United States of America.

 

----- Drug Addicited?? based on your post I'm questioning your own drug use.

 

 

------ Ummm a Multimillionaire who made lots of his money on the backs of the middle class by outsourcing jobs.. Yup thats what we need.... That'll help America.... Someone who's so far out of touch he thinks people should just borrow money from there parents to start a business GOOD JOB!!!!!

 

 

 

Brian, that's me keeping it civil. PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST!

 

I believe Romney's approval rating when he left office as governor was ~36% Sound like the type of president we need.........

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/12/how-mitt-romney-invested-millions-in-outsourcing/

[thorne]

He did his job plain and simple. His job was to save the companies. His role as president would be completely different and he can do it and has the skills. Obama couldn't put forth a budget let alone balance one and has a piss poor track record of showing us any real success. What he did promise didn't come to fruition either and what did happen is he grew our deficit to what 16-17 Trillion?

 

If you're upset about Roms 14% fed tax rate from investments, I bet you wouldn't be if you too had significant investments making you money. He also did not take all the exemptions that were available to him and donated millions to charity and his religious causes. Look up his salary while Governor and tell me if Obama would take the same in any role.

 

 

I'd agree with the first part but the company was making money before he outsourced it just started making allot more money and mad ehim a ton of money. See the problem here?

 

and his tax rate .... sorry I don't think its fair that I pay 28+% he pays 14%.

[TTQ B4U]

I believe Romney's approval rating when he left office as governor was ~36% Sound like the type of president we need.........

 

Who cares what his approval rating was. That article continues to talk of his work at Bain and outsourcing which is what his job was. He wasn't hired to keep jobs in the country, he was hired to save those companies and turn a profit. He did his job and it's clear and he's clear on what his new job as president would be and clear on the fact that it would be handled differently.

 

He's effective and knows how to run a business and save failing businesses. Does he make a shit ton of money of investments? Yep...kuddos. Does he know how to minimize his taxes according to the law? Yep, again, he's smart, Does he have a track record better than Obama doing what's needed. Yep. Bottom line, he's a successful businessman and yes, that's what this country needs.....given the two choices we have.

[TTQ B4U]

I'd agree with the first part but the company was making money before he outsourced it just started making allot more money and mad ehim a ton of money. See the problem here?

 

Nope.....he did his job which was to be profitable. He also took no guaranteed salary at Bain either so yes, he was paid on profitability. Hmmm...agreeing to be paid only if you deliver results...yeah, I approve of that. His role at the time wasn't to save this country. He did was his job was to do.

 

and his tax rate .... sorry I don't think its fair that I pay 28+% he pays 14%.

He's simply being a smart businessman. His income was derived mostly from capital gains and dividends from his investments that are taxed differently and well below the 35% top tax rate of standard income. If you want the same go let your money work for you and invest millions in the market and use the same tax laws he's using. There's no vudu magic about it. The reason income like that is taxed less is because it's in investments keeping the economy going. The wife and I put every penny of her income made into investments. Makes no sense to pay more tax just to put it in the bank doing nothing when we can pay less and let it work for us. Anyone can do it. Edited October 2, 2012 by TTQ B4U

[thorne]

The irony in this anology would be Mark aka Atomic Fusion is Romney and Dwiggs is Obama. Obama hasn't bailed out a plugged up bath tub let alone a company in distress. No different than Dwiggs hasn't raced his turd down the track.

 

I think your a bit off. BLowing up the Pitcrew to win the race is not how it works. I've never seen mark punch tommy in the face to run .1 faster. That's exactly what Mitt did.........

 

WHOOOWOOO He made a ton of money for people who already had plenty of money while sending the middleclass jobs oversees.......

 

 

Sounds like the type of leader we need

[TTQ B4U]

I've never seen mark punch tommy in the face to run .1 faster. That's exactly what Mitt did.........WHOOOWOOO He made a ton of money for people who already had plenty of money while sending the middleclass jobs oversees.......Sounds like the type of leader we need

 

....still waiting on Obama to come to the table with something of substance such as helping anyone make money....oh wait, does extending them social services count?

[thorne]

Nope.....he did his job which was to be profitable. His role at the time wasn't to save this country. He did was his job was to do.

 

He's simply being a smart businessman. His income was derived mostly from capital gains and dividends from his investments that are taxed differently and well below the 35% top tax rate of standard income. If you want the same go let your money work for you and invest millions in the market and use the same tax laws he's using. There's no vudu magic about it. The reason income like that is taxed less is because it's in investments keeping the economy going. The wife and I put every penny of her income made into investments. Makes no sense to pay more tax just to put it in the bank doing nothing when we can pay less and let it work for us. Anyone can do it.

 

I'm sorry I haven't been in the position to make the millions off other peoples lack of jobs to invest into the market. I've got my 401k and thats it. But I max out my 401k

[thorne]

....still waiting on Obama to come to the table with something of substance such as helping anyone make money.

 

I can't personally attest for obama making me more money BUT he has saved me money on my healthcare.

 

 

Here's some other things he's done I've liked

 

Issued executive order to repeal Bush era restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research

 

Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia

 

 

First president to endorse same-sex marriage equality

 

 

Provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

 

Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse

 

Health Care Reform Bill, preventing insurance companies from denying insurance because of a pre-existing condition

[iwishiwascool]

The irony in this anology would be Mark aka Atomic Fusion is Romney and Dwiggs is Obama. Obama hasn't bailed out a plugged up bath tub let alone a company in distress. No different than Dwiggs hasn't raced his turd down the track.

 

I'd agree if the trajectory weren't heading in a positive direction. It did not happen as fast as anyone would hope and who knows, maybe the old Mitt could have made it happen faster but there is a new reality....

 

He is facing pressures from Norquist and all the Special Interests he is pandering to say things like "We are going to lower taxes 20% across the board"; Followed by: "Don't worry about the math". He has had to cave and reverse course on social issues which I will never agree with. He is the product of the collective know-nothings who are married to ideology rather than realistic solutions. I'd rather have a pragmatist who may work slower but have a better end result than a blowhard puppet whose frenetic energy would quite possibly blow up the gains that have been made.

[TTQ B4U]

I've got my 401k and thats it. But I max out my 401k

 

When you get to a point where you have money outside a 401k you'll see my point.

 

I can't personally attest for obama making me more money BUT he has saved me money on my healthcare.

 

Saving you money on health insurance is a far cry from helping Americans with what they need most, getting a job and making money. Nor is his approach helping our children today. The debt and financial hardships they are facing makes me sad.

 

Here's some other things he's done I've liked

 

 

• Issued executive order to repeal Bush era restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research
  
• Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia
  
• First president to endorse same-sex marriage equality
  
• Provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB
  
• Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse
  
• Health Care Reform Bill, preventing insurance companies from denying insurance because of a pre-existing condition
  

Great accomplishments. Not exactly what I call the priority target for a man in his position to focus on given the situation our country is in. Your mileage may vary.

[10phone2]

....still waiting on Obama to come to the table with something of substance such as helping anyone make money....oh wait, does extending them social services count?

 

Once again spot on. My numbers could be incorrect, but the number of people on government assistance increased by 15 million or so since Obama took office.

[TTQ B4U]

Once again spot on. My numbers could be incorrect, but the number of people on government assistance increased by 15 million or so since Obama took office.

 

Haven't you heard, the trajectory we're heading in is in a positive direction :fuuuu:

[thorne]

When you get to a point where you have money outside a 401k you'll see my point.

 

---Sadly until my wife gets a kidney I don't see it happening as the extra money I keep around I keep liquid to deal with unexpected expenses.

 

 

 

Saving you money on health insurance is a far cry from helping Americans with what they need most, making money.

---- I agree but atleast the quality of life is better

 

Great accomplishments. Not exactly what I call the priority target for a man in his position to focus on given the situation our country is in. Your mileage may vary.

 

Its things i've liked. shrug. I really haven't found 1 redeeming value from Mitt aside from him making me LOL over his choice of Fairy Tales. Magic Underware LOL... Indians are the lost jews... lol ......... Black people are a curse... LOL ...... But hey if your ritous you can become white.

[TTQ B4U]

Its things i've liked. shrug.

 

and I'm not knocking them.....but things you like are one thing, but when facts like this come out again and gain, it's clear the guy in charge is not getting the job done. give people a job, a steady and good income and their quality of life will go up.

 

It's time Obama STFU about what his plans of Hope and Change and Go Forward are going to bring us. Again, a great orator. How about he start presenting some facts about himself and his accomplishments for once and stop talking and start showing. He can't and hasn't for four years.

 

Acording to the Fed. Reserve, total consumer borrowing dipped $3.3 billion in July from June to a seasonally adjusted $2.705 trillion The drop in credit card debt offset a small rise in a measure of auto and student loans.

 

The Fed also said Americans have borrowed much more than previously estimated after it revised consumer borrowing data back to December 2010. June's figure was increased to $2.708 trillion, or $130 billion higher than initially thought. It's also well above pre-recession levels.

 

The job market has weakened substantially from the start of the year, which is keeping downward pressure on spending. In August, employers added just 96,000 jobs, down from 141,000 in July and well below the average 226,000 jobs a month in the January-March quarter.

 

Consumers have been using credit cards much less since the 2008 credit crisis. In July, it was $850.7 billion — or 17% lower. During that same time, student loan debt has increased dramatically. Much of that increase in student loans is a result of high unemployment, which has led many Americans to seek better education and skills in a more competitive labor market.

 

The weak job market is putting more pressure on the Federal Reserve to provide more help to the anemic economy. Fed officials will meet Wednesday and Thursday. Economists expect the central bank to announce another round of bond buying to put downward pressure on long-term interest rates.

 

The economy is growing too slowly to boost business and consumer confidence and spur sustained gains in spending and hiring. Overall economic growth slowed to an annual rate of just 1.7% in the April-June quarter, and analysts don't expect much of a pickup for the rest of the year.

 

Overall, Americans have been steadily paring debt since the financial crisis. Household debt, including mortgages and home equity lines of credit, has declined for 16 straight quarters to $12.9 trillion in March, according to a separate Fed survey on consumer finances. That's down from $13.8 trillion in March 2008.

 

Some of that debt has been removed by defaults, such as foreclosures. But Americans are also repairing their finances by paying down debts.

 

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/146430517/original.jpg

Edited October 2, 2012 by TTQ B4U

[wagner]

Don't worry, Uncle Sugar has everything under control....

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/were-heading-recession-says-sam-145407630.html

 

 

I blame Congress just as much if not more than Obama for what is going on. They are the smart ones that are saying "hey look over here, don't mind what we are doing..."

 

 

Wait till we fall off the fiscal cliff, better have your magic undroos pulled real tight because uncle obama can't save you from that fistfuckfunfest.