last debate 10/22

[jeffro]

There needs to be a complete cleansing of Washington leaders. Term limits are a start and while we have due process I think a complete public stand up to Washington is needed. Such a decision should't be the decision of those same leaders. This should be a popular vote by the people. Eviction from Washington is needed.

 

:nod:

[CRed05]

I used to be a big fan of the popular vote method...until I realized that majority of people are idiots and have no business choosing our leaders. Electoral college, another great thing set in place by the founders.

[V8 Beast]

I challenge a Romney supporter to give me 3 things Obama has done well.

[SpaceGhost]

I challenge a Romney supporter to give me 3 things Obama has done well.

 

Is there supposed to be a "not" in there?

 

For me, things done well:

OBL = dead

 

Got out of Iraq, and will leave Afghanistan soon

 

Privatize the Space Agency.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Benjamin

[V8 Beast]

Wasnt Iraq Bushes doing?

[TTQ B4U]

Romney's Magic tax plan bothers me because he wants to cut taxes by a huge amount and "Close Loop Holes" He's never really detailed what those loop holes are. But he claims it will work our better.

 

He can't effectively come to the table with the exact details because of the list of say 100 loopholes, it will take his leading the legislation and negotiations on both sides to determine which loopholes and by how much will be cut to match up with the framework. All of which will go through his filter system which includes does it add to the national debt. Does that make sense? I'll be happy to give a concrete example via PM to save Evan some pains of reading.

 

Romney's also very much out of touch with the struggles of the common man. I really don't feel he would make decisions that are in our best intrest.

 

He's not living the same life that's for sure, but we each have our own opinion on whether he's in touch. It's also true that either candidate can't focus solely on the best interest of the little guy. We have $17T in debt that has been allowed to accumulate and has to be paid for. Just the same as your statement, it's not fair to make only those above $250k /yr pay for it either. You're kidding yourself if you think Obama's is going to shield you from paying for any of it or any of what he has coming.

 

Romney's claims about making jobs are a joke as in one breath he says It's not the goverments resposbility to create jobs while next claiming he's going to creat millions of jobs..... Really?

 

You're taking it litterally. He's stating that the plan is to shore up the economy through fiscal responsibility so in turn jobs will be created by the private sector and yes likely to some extent in the public sector. He's not saying that the Fed is gong to "create" jobs. We know that's not what the fed does.

 

Romney's name should be FlapJack because he flips back and forth so much

 

He's a businessman, no business is run strictly on black and white. That just screams for gridlock. His stances when running the state of MA won't all apply to his role as President. I don't manage my sales team and the business I manage the same here as I did in my previous role either. In areas where he has moved more towards the center on issues, that's not a bad thing. Some will say that's shifty others will say he's reasonable and willing to soften up a bit on his stance. It's politics, niether guy can stand firm or shift without being wrong. Lose/lose in the eyes of the masses and spin.

[TTQ B4U]

I challenge a Romney supporter to give me 3 things Obama has done well.

 

• refocused us on OBL and getting him. Done.
  
• concentrated on getting us out of the Middle East.
  
• expressed an interest and intent to reform healthcare. Done. Not a good plan but nonetheless made Healthcare a priority
  

[SpaceGhost]

Wasnt Iraq Bushes doing?

 

Yep but Obama withdrew the forces.

 

BTW I don't support Mitt. I don't think you need to support anyone to point out accomplishments.

[greg1647545532]

Yep but Obama withdrew the forces.

 

It's also worth noting that during the 2008 campaign Obama was in favor of sticking to the timeline that Bush laid out. McCain et al. said that timelines strengthened our enemies; they said that al Queda would just wait for the timeline to finish and then swoop back in. Timelines = bad. McCain's vastly different position, of course, was that we'd stick to the timeline, unless we decided not to.

 

Obama was hammered so hard over this that he ultimately softened his stance by emphasizing that he would listen to the advice of the commanders on the ground. For this, he was labeled a flip-flopper. Politics!

 

Of course, everything turned out better than expected.

 

So yeah, it was Bush's timeline, and Obama executed it.

[greg1647545532]

If we're just throwing out accomplishments, then he also repealed DADT. Once again, everything turned out just fine. Yet another example of how often conservative fearmongering is completely wrong.

[SpaceGhost]

Forgot about DADT. Good call.

[Ramsey]

He did pass the NDAA

[Putty]

I really think the 4 party system is hurting us but i dont know if i have to play the cards that are dealt and help choose what is right for america or make a stand.

 

Fixed

[V8 Beast]

Thanks, Im just tired of hearing about what he hasnt done. I feel better now.

[iwishiwascool]

Don't forget he's

Cut taxes for employees

Cut taxes for small businesses

Supported LGBT rights (If you're into that)

Continued the "war on terror" with drones rather than boots (If you're into that)

Reversed Bush's ridiculous ban on stem cell research

Eliminated pre-existing condition Insurance denials

And he's provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

 

Among some other positive things. I certainly don't agree with everything that has happened over the past four years, but the narriative that some try to report is of a monster they've created in their collective minds.

[iwishiwascool]

 

You're taking it litterally. He's stating that the plan is to shore up the economy through fiscal responsibility so in turn jobs will be created by the private sector and yes likely to some extent in the public sector. He's not saying that the Fed is gong to "create" jobs. We know that's not what the fed does.

 

So does he mean literally when he says Obama believes it's the government's responsibility to create jobs? You can't have it both ways. If so, Obama sure has failed since federal jobs have decreased in the past 4 years.

 

http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/top-10/federal-government-employment.png

 

So much so that economists estimate that the unemployment rate would be 1% lower had it stayed level. The whole notion that the government as an employer is ballooning out of control OMG! is not accurate.

 

Here are total jobs gained vs. lost over the past 8 years. Based on this alone which color would you choose?

 

http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/06/MonthlyJobs.png

 

 

Penny

Penny

[TTQ B4U]

Don't forget he's

Cut taxes for employees

Cut taxes for small businesses

 

So he's cut taxes aka deferred them to borrowing money like never before. Is that kinda like skipping a car payment only to pay that payment plus interest on the back end of your loan :dumb: Hey, I guess the upside is our kids will pay for it along with all the other cuts he gave while borrowing in order to make it happen. No thanks.

 

Instead of bullshitting the public into thinking he's "giving tax breaks" why not be upfront with them and say, we can do that but I'm going to tack the cost of doing so onto the national debt which you will pay for under the next administration.

 

Here are total jobs gained vs. lost over the past 8 years. Based on this alone which color would you choose?

 

http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/06/MonthlyJobs.png

 

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/obamas-inflated-jobs-claim/

 

Cliffs: The total added during his time in office is actually about 325,000 And that’s giving credit for roughly 386,000 jobs that the BLS has announced, on a preliminary basis, that it will be adding to this year’s employment totals next year, as a result of its routine annual “benchmarking” analysis.

 

But in the end, I'm sure all the unemployed workers in America (about the same as when he took office) and all those being added to the gov't assistance programs (+6.4M more in poverty, +46% more on food stamps) will agree with you that he's doing a bang up job

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/obamas-numbers/

Edited October 26, 2012 by TTQ B4U

[iwishiwascool]

So he's cut taxes aka deferred them to borrowing money like never before. Is that kinda like skipping a car payment only to pay that payment plus interest on the back end of your loan :dumb: Hey, I guess the upside is our kids will pay for it along with all the other cuts he gave while borrowing in order to make it happen. No thanks.

 

Instead of bullshitting the public into thinking he's "giving tax breaks" why not be upfront with them and say, we can do that but I'm going to tack the cost of doing so onto the national debt which you will pay for under the next administration.

 

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Dude, that 20% tax break you've been exalting as the next best thing since yourself is literally impossible without http://contributing to the deficit. This is how republicans sell tax cuts: "Oh, the growth will cover the difference!". In his case repealing ALL the tax loopholes we would still need 6% sustained growth to make it deficit neutral. China can't even maintain that manipulating their currency, the government controlling all industry, and with slave labor.

 

At least it's better than Ryans plan which would add even more to the deficit than doing nothing at all for 10 years.

 

I don't know how old you are but doesn't it feel pretty damn similar to the "We'll cut taxes and figure it out later" of the G.W Bush 12 years ago? Tell me more about how Romney is TOTALLY different while he is answering to the same financiers that Bush was.

[TTQ B4U]

Dude, that 20% tax break you've been exalting as the next best thing since yourself is literally impossible without contributing to the deficit. This is how republicans sell tax cuts: "Oh, the growth will cover the difference!". In his case repealing ALL the tax loopholes we would still need 6% sustained growth to make it deficit neutral.

 

Well I guess it boils down to believing Obama or Mitt and we can agree that we'll each go our own way based on our own reasons. Good luck with yours as Obama has sucked balls for the last four years and Mitt, we'll he's proven he can make money and run a capital equity company that restores failing businesses which is essentially what we are as a country and Obama has proven he can spend a lot and rack up debt.

 

At least it's better than Ryans plan which would add even more to the deficit than doing nothing at all for 10 years.

Again, you can believe Obama but if we go on another 4 years with him in the lead, we can regroup in this thread yearly to evaluate his progress. I won't hold my breath.

 

I don't know how old you are but doesn't it feel pretty damn similar to the "We'll cut taxes and figure it out later" of the G.W Bush 12 years ago? Tell me more about how Romney is TOTALLY different while he is answering to the same financiers that Bush was.

I probably have few years on you or am close. In terms of Romeny...he's no Bush. Not going that far off topic to discuss Bush.