TTQ B4U Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Or until China demands their money and/or we just become the North American People's Republic of China.... No, his next step is to just continue to let China and Japan and others buy up all our property and businesses. Typical step in the process of going belly up. Borrow and rack up debt, then sell off your possessions. Why not, all our stuff is made in China, Japan or Korea anyway..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Or until China demands their money and/or we just become the North American People's Republic of China.... Nitpick -- China can't "demand their money." They're not a bookie. The roughly 1 trillion in debt is held in the form of government bonds, which are scheduled to be paid back (with interest) at a certain time (5, 10, 20 years, etc). Only about 1/16th of the national debt is held by China anyway, so if we really wanted to pay off China, we'd just borrow a trillion dollars from somewhere else and pay them off. Worst case is we just print a trillion dollars and suck up the inflation, which would be bad, but not economy-crushing bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwashmycar Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/181992284.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 No, his next step is to just continue to let China and Japan and others buy up all our property and businesses.. Wasn't it just yesterday that you agreed with me that he president doesn't have these sorts of fantastical powers? The president controls who buys private businesses now? Your mastery of hyperbole is truly epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Wasn't it just yesterday that you agreed with me that he president doesn't have these sorts of fantastical powers? The president controls who buys private businesses now? Your mastery of hyperbole is truly epic. Obama's fantastic vision of America has put our companies in a world of hurt and thanks to his leadership and Moving us Forward into more debt, weaker credit and shitty financial situations has pretty much put everything in America on Sale in the eyes of foreign companies. China was on a buying spree and now even Japan is buying up companies. It's time for a leader to come in strengthen our economy and insure our dollar doesn't continue to be so weak. Time for someone to stop spending and borrowing and putting our industries that are left here in a position where they need to sell out. Sprint is likely going to Japan. China Petrochemical Corp, also known as Sinopec, bought up 30% of Devon Energy Corp. of Oklahoma City Dalian Wanda Group bought up AMC Entertainment who is all but broke. I think their flying the Chinese flag over Dublin Theathers. Wanxiang Group Corp. announced plans to provide a $465-million in loans to A123 Systems Inc., based in Waltham, Mass. who is struggling. Why? Because they are leading provider to hybrid cars. Was that part of Obama's Green plan too? China National Offshore Oil Corp., or CNOOC, is looking to buy Nexen Inc., a Canadian oil company with operations in U.S. waters in the Gulf of Mexico Xinjiang Goldwind Science and Technology Co., China's second-largest wind turbine maker has invested more than $200 million in U.S. wind farms in Illinois and Montana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Obama's fantastic vision of America has put our companies in a world of hurt and thanks to his leadership and Moving us Forward into more debt, weaker credit and shitty financial situations has pretty much put everything in America on Sale in the eyes of foreign companies. China was on a buying spree and now even Japan is buying up companies. It's time for a leader to come in strengthen our economy and insure our dollar doesn't continue to be so weak. Time for someone to stop spending and borrowing and putting our industries that are left here in a position where they need to sell out. Well that's not at all what you just said. You said that the president is letting (allowing?) foreigners buy American companies. But this garbage just says some crap about the economy. Are you backtracking? Do you think that if you just spew enough words that nobody will call you on your bullshit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Well that's not at all what you just said. You said that the president is letting (allowing?) foreigners buy American companies. But this garbage just says some crap about the economy. By his poor leadership and lack of real progress for this country he is letting this shit happen. You're right, it speaks directly to the crap economy that he assured us he would fix. It speaks directly to how he's doing. He's put our country at risk and the vultures are swooping in buying up our country's assets with the interest on the money we're borrowing from them. Are you backtracking? Do you think that if you just spew enough words that nobody will call you on your bullshit?Bullshit? Yeah.....our economy under his "plan" of Hope and Change is just thriving. Excuse me while I look for all the successes in that realm he's just so willing to talk about during his campaign. Oh wait, he hasn't....I wonder why? Edited October 25, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 He does have an entire page dedicated to it. It's an obscure link, I'll forgive you for not having found it. (Don't bother dismissing everything he's claiming on that page, I know you're going to do it anyway and it's not going to be very convincing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) (Don't bother dismissing everything he's claiming on that page, I know you're going to do it anyway and it's not going to be very convincing). I don't have to dismiss anything. The reality of the economic numbers today do that for everyone. In the end there are more people out of work today than when he took office. All the stats measured show our economy is sucking ass. Those stats are very convincing to all except the financially stupid. (See post #46 for hot off the press information too) His stats were all fact-checked after the debate and IIRC they noted that there has been a net increase of just 300,000 nonfarm payroll jobs and if you count government jobs, there are actually 400,000 fewer people working today than in January 2009. But hey, that's right up there with him saying he cut $1T from the budget yet turned around and added $4T + dollars. Yep...both are examples of progress under Obama. In the end those that feel he did a great job and has lifted and improved our economy can vote for him. I suppose the official figures that get published every month/quarter are just wrong and Obama and his campaign are the ones who are right. In the end, America got exactly what they deserved for electing him and will do so again if he's re-elected. You know what's really funny is Obama says "he has a plan" to do blah, blah, blah......really? how have those plans worked out during his first term? They haven't. Again, Q3 Earnings reports are in....and they suck, but at least they don't suck as bad as Q2. Edited October 26, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Here's mine. But to be fair I'm smarter than most people here. http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/182315785.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I thought i'd agree with Mitt on something, oh well. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/j2onlineaccts/Misc/Untitled.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Only about 1/16th of the national debt is held by China ONLY 1/16th???? surely no srs? just borrow a trillion dollars from somewhere else and pay them off. Wait.... srsly? we just print a trillion dollars and suck up the inflation, which would be bad, but not economy-crushing bad. Hold on... I think you're srs... :dumb: Its called hyperinflation... Germany did it after WW1 and the post-soviet empire did it, look what history tells when you print a giant amount of money in a time of financial instability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Its called hyperinflation... Germany did it after WW1 and the post-soviet empire did it, look what history tells when you print a giant amount of money in a time of financial instability. I had to look this up, but a hyperinflation period is generally regarded as one in which inflation exceeds 50% per month. Printing a trillion dollars, by my estimate, would cause an instantaneous spike of about 10% inflation. On top of our typical 3-4%, you're looking at 15% tops, and only over a very short period. So no, it wouldn't cause hyperinflation. Would 15% inflation suck? Yeah. Should we print a trillion dollars to pay off China? No. But if you're really that concerned about it, that's all it would take to get China off our backs. We'd take a temporary hit of inflation, everyone would bitch about it, but then you'd sleep better at night knowing that we're not going to become the Peoples Republic of North America or whatever. I'm just trying to help you be less scared, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pomade Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Here's mine. But to be fair I'm smarter than most people here. http://imgs.isidewith.com/results-image/182315785.jpg I think it would be fairly intimdating from a foreign policy perspective to have a librarian as the Commander in Chief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt325/BStowers023/PoliticalPics.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I had to look this up, but a hyperinflation period is generally regarded as one in which inflation exceeds 50% per month. Printing a trillion dollars, by my estimate, would cause an instantaneous spike of about 10% inflation. On top of our typical 3-4%, you're looking at 15% tops, and only over a very short period. So no, it wouldn't cause hyperinflation. Would 15% inflation suck? Yeah. Should we print a trillion dollars to pay off China? No. But if you're really that concerned about it, that's all it would take to get China off our backs. We'd take a temporary hit of inflation, everyone would bitch about it, but then you'd sleep better at night knowing that we're not going to become the Peoples Republic of North America or whatever. I'm just trying to help you be less scared, man. Yup, it's just that simple. I'm totally voting for you if you run for treasurer. BTW nice way to settle on the 1960s definition, instead of the multi-input they use today. Furthermore, the immediate printing of money isn't just the hyperinflation, it's what triggers it. The upset of supply and demand becomes the issue. The dollar becomes worthless. You make the same wage but it now costs $20 for a loaf of bread. (Exaggeration to make a point) BTW, how in the eff did you get 10%? Do you know what the current rate of printing new money is? Edited October 25, 2012 by JuicedH22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think it would be fairly intimdating from a foreign policy perspective to have a librarian as the Commander in Chief. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Holy shit..... CR has a lot of "unknown" Gary Johnson love! I had Gary Johnson @ 78%. And yes, this would be a VERY interesting way to vote... :thumbup: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think it would be fairly intimdating from a foreign policy perspective to have a librarian as the Commander in Chief. I completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 BTW nice way to settle on the 1960s definition, instead of the multi-input they use today. Furthermore, the immediate printing of money isn't just the hyperinflation, it's what triggers it. The upset of supply and demand becomes the issue. The dollar becomes worthless. You make the same wage but it now costs $20 for a loaf of bread. (Exaggeration to make a point) Well, if you have another definition, I'd love to hear it. I'd also love to hear you make a case for why creating a trillion dollars would cause hyperinflation. I've been wrong before; maybe you'll convince me! But you need to bring something to the table other than a basic definition of inflation and an admittedly exaggerated example. I'd like it if our elected officials could give us straight answers about our problems. I don't want them to exaggerate them for political gain, or whitewash over them in order to make it seem like everything's OK. I'd prefer if all Americans did the same. I'm sure you feel the same way, right? BTW, how in the eff did you get 10%? Do you know what the current rate of printing new money is? I don't claim to be an economist, but I know that the Federal Reserve is tasked with managing the money supply. In order to manage it, they have to track it, and the value they're currently tracking for the amount of US currency in existence (the M2 value explained at this link) is in the ballpark of 10 trillion dollars. Creating a trillion dollars would decrease the amount of all existing currency by about 10%. That's how I came up with that number. I'm assuming you know that when we talk about "printing" money to pay off China, we're not actually talking about the Bureau of Engraving. Instead, the Federal Reserve actually creates money, basically out of thin air, and loans it out to banks. In the last 4 years, the Fed has created about 2 trillion dollars in this manner. This is how they control the rate of inflation, which is one of the primary jobs of any central bank. If they suddenly created a trillion, it would spike inflation, but there's also nothing that says they'd have to do it all at once. If they did it over the next 5 years we'd barely notice. Please also note that I'm not suggesting this as a fiscally sound course of action. In fact it's completely moronic, because China owning some of our debt is no big deal. Also, it would thrash our credit rating further than it's already been thrashed. But it's incorrect to think that China can crash our economy by calling in the debt, and hopefully I've adequately explained why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Obama Leadership Moving us Forward alright...... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-24/firings-reach-highest-since-2010-as-ford-to-dow-face-sales-slump.html Cliffs: Obama certainly isn't improving things on the job front nor moving us forward Companies announcing massive cuts in labor: Ford Dow Chemical Colgate-Palmolive Co. DuPont Co. Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (AMD) Hewlett-Packard Co. Cummins Inc. Kimberly-Clark Corp. Whirlpool Corp. 235 S&P 500 companies that have released third-quarter earnings, 137 have reported sales that trailed analysts’ estimates. U.S., companies are hesitant to expandInaction on the Pending fiscal cliff, probably would cause a recession in the first half of 2013The world’s largest economy probably grew at a 1.8 percent annual rate in the third quarter after expanding at a 1.3 percent pace in the previous three months but hey.....he has a plan..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Greg, since you asked for it, when I get off my phone and on a pc, I will gladly school you. [insert "challenge accepted" image here] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Greg, since you asked for it, when I get off my phone and on a pc, I will gladly school you. [insert "challenge accepted" image here] PS, I am we'll aware they are not actually printing dollars... Careful trying to insult someone who may be more intelligent than you... But then again that could just be my right leaning ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Looking forward to it. You could also just admit that I'm right . I wouldn't hold it against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Obama Leadership Moving us Forward alright...... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-24/firings-reach-highest-since-2010-as-ford-to-dow-face-sales-slump.html Cliffs: Obama certainly isn't improving things on the job front nor moving us forward Companies announcing massive cuts in labor: Ford Dow Chemical Colgate-Palmolive Co. DuPont Co. Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (AMD) Hewlett-Packard Co. Cummins Inc. Kimberly-Clark Corp. Whirlpool Corp. 235 S&P 500 companies that have released third-quarter earnings, 137 have reported sales that trailed analysts’ estimates. U.S., companies are hesitant to expandInaction on the Pending fiscal cliff, probably would cause a recession in the first half of 2013The world’s largest economy probably grew at a 1.8 percent annual rate in the third quarter after expanding at a 1.3 percent pace in the previous three months but hey.....he has a plan..... And what is Romneys plan? "Im gunto make 12 million new jobs herp derp but im not going to say how im going to do it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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