smokinHawk1647545499 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Is that the new spin word for a use/consumption tax to make it sound better, like it's not fucking poor people? Whats fair in taxes is highly based on ones opinion and bias. read up on it, as it doesn't F*ck poor people. Main reason I like it as it does away with taxing corporations, as it is impossible to tax them. Getting rid of corp tax make it more efficient to have a business located in the US, so manufacturing returns to the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 China owns bonds, (pieces of paper) they don't really own anything. They hand us money for these bonds because they are the most stable investment there is. You people need to rethink China owns us or US of China. We default, and don't pay. They own nothing, just like in the stock market, you own apple shares, apple goes under, You lost money, I don't get to go through back stock in a warehouse and start taking computers home. The ramifications are we default and they no longer buy bonds, then we are fucked. SMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 China owns bonds, (pieces of paper) they don't really own anything. They hand us money for these bonds because they are the most stable investment there is. You people need to rethink China owns us or US of China. We default, and don't pay. They own nothing, just like in the stock market, you own apple shares, apple goes under, You lost money, I don't get to go through back stock in a warehouse and start taking computers home. The ramifications are we default and they no longer buy bonds, then we are fucked. SMH Yeah, that's how we hope it would go. Until they show up and say they want the East Coast states, and fuck you and your bonds, we are getting something for our Gazillion dollars we bought in bonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbs3000 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Yeah, that's how we hope it would go. Until they show up and say they want the East Coast states, and fuck you and your bonds, we are getting something for our Gazillion dollars we bought in bonds. So that line of thought is that China will start WWIII and end civilization based investors in China (not the government of China mind you) trying to collect a debt? (yes I'm hopefully assuming you are playing devils advocate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 One word. NAFTA Unions who demand a worker gets paid 20 an hour to screw bolts doesn't help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Not start WWIII. As you said, these are investors. Who better to be positioned to come in when a country is at that point and buy up what the other companies from the US can't afford? So let's say they become the ones to reopen factory's and failed businesses. Where we would have had no job, because they would have gone out of business, now is owned and run by a China buy out group and US people are paid shit. Take a nation in fail and try to bring it back with now money. Our US spending habit is no different than a drug habit. You either make a change and unfuck it, or get worse to the point where you just have to do whatever to get by. Or you die. Is this next year? No. But if we don't get our budget under control, we set ourselves up for corporate take over by failing. And just like we have big companies paying those in office, so will they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbs3000 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Fair enough, but now we are saying that instead of coming here and "claiming what is theirs" they are coming to reinvest. Side note would be that they probably aren't willing to invest if we are at the point of defaulting. Also, if we default the the investors the market goes nuts, tanks, and brings China's with it. Meaning these investors have a lot less funds to play with. Not saying it's not possible, just it becomes a lot less likely. Also, I'm a believer that something like that could work slowly, but not likely because if the US collapses it would not fall into chaos but instead our democracy would transform into a dictatorship and continue to thrive, ie Rome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 No way China shows up anywhere near our border without first using nukes. They would be stupid to do so. Hell if all of us on this website got together to form a militia it would be a pretty good size and very well armed..... I have more firearms than family members. Many here do also.... Training would take place, many members have military training and can easily pass that along. Every country on earth knows going here is not feasible in a ground war. And I thank our founding fathers for that foresight. Hell Japan knew this in the 1940s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 No one will nuke land that they want. It's like using mace on yourself before you rape someone. I will check back on here tonight. What I wanted to do was mention options, possibilities. Not get into probability so much. One way to think through thinks is to discuss all thinkable approaches. Plan the best you can and make the changes needed to keep the bad from happening. As I said I wanted to provoke thought. Nation buy/sell out is a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Gump 9 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 This is why I love CR. Start a thread about US manufacturing job and now we talking about WWIII with China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fast5gp Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 read up on it, as it doesn't F*ck poor people. Main reason I like it as it does away with taxing corporations, as it is impossible to tax them. Getting rid of corp tax make it more efficient to have a business located in the US, so manufacturing returns to the US. if you actually believe that... then.... :dumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 if you actually believe that... then.... :dumb: well how about you educate yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 No one will nuke land that they want. It's like using mace on yourself before you rape someone. Sig worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 No one will nuke land that they want. It's like using mace on yourself before you rape someone. Exactly, that's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 One of the biggest issues facing that problem is that someone in the world will always have a stockpile of unemployed, unskilled population that are willing to work for pennies on the dollar. This is global economics. To me the answer to the question "Can America survive without manufacturing" is Yes. Sure its a part of our economy, but its not the only part. It does however need attention and that will not be in the form of "good factory jobs for blue collar workers" that politicians keep pounding their fists about. It is foolish for American companies to continue paying a worker in the US even minimum wage when in another country they can staff a whole shift for the same price (depending on product being created of course.) Now as our "need" for "cheap products" increases we've done the world some good. When I was a kid things where "made in Japan", then "Taiwan", etc and those places have gotten more wealth and better labor laws as a result. China is the huge holdout here. They suppress their currency and keep labor laws at a minimum, but they have been forced to change over the past decades and now jobs have been moving to Vietnam and more recently South Africa. I'll predict that China will continue to be a very cheap place for labor for many more years, but it won't be the only place. We as Americans need to rethink industry here. We simply can't compete man to man, but maybe we can use our superior education level (meaning most of our people graduate high school and therefore can be trained to do more advanced tasked if sufficiently motivated) to create businesses that create products that cannot as easily be made by the truly uneducated. I'm not sure what we'd make, but its either something like that or we all work service sector or administration for a long time. I do however see things coming full circle some day and the US gaining back some manufacturing, but that time is probably 100yrs off (just a guess.) The rest of the world would have to create labor laws to the point where our lower class could then compete in a global job market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well put Tractor, I guess in the mean time we will continue to get both quality products and absolute junk from China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well put Tractor, I guess in the mean time we will continue to get both quality products and absolute junk from China. Yeah, thats sorta how I see things. Its just world economics, but within our country "politicians" keep us either reaching for the past or fighting each other in the present over trivial "hot issues" instead of thinking clearly and towards the future. I feel we as a planet have reached a pivotal point in our evolution with two main outcomes A) We'll either continue down the path of exploiting our resources and sell the last drop of everything to the highest bidder which will likely end very badly for most of us including possible wars and a return to the stone age except there won't be those resources to reinvent much this time. B) World peace isn't really that far off at this point. Think about it? Everyone's economically joined at the hip so if we can just get past a few more hurdles mostly involving greed we could work together as a planet and start to really explore our solar system and beyond. I'm hoping for B, but somehow I don't think we'll pull it off and if we do it will be more of a combination of A sorta like the bad guy with the plastic hair in 5th Element with a mega corp exploiting on a mega scale gets us out of earth orbit for a bit. If we don't work together soon we'll simply have to many people on Earth and the wars will start over water, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 This is why I love CR. Start a thread about US manufacturing job and now we talking about WWIII with China. http://i.imgur.com/KsIkh.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Apple starting manufacturing in the US. Tim Cook's interview tonight. http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/06/apple-making-macs-in-us/?hpt=hp_t3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paktinat Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 fuck, now I have to buy a mac... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Gen Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 We can continue to allow the low $$ highly repetitive manufacturing go, but we need to maintain heavy / automotive manufacturing in the states. We just need to get our acts together and do it competitively. On the other hand I am seeing a swing in IT in-sourcing or partially pulling part of the work back in the states. Too much overhead / turnover and costs are rising (Primarily in India). Concerns about sensitive data or processes being lost or used is another concern. Should be an interesting next 3 -5 years in this space.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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