Arm Everything!

[V8 Beast]

#1 a 19 year old senior :dumb:

 

#2 are you making the assumption that I think it's a good idea to arm teachers?

 

#3 do you think it's a good idea to arm high school students?

 

1 plenty of kids have late birthdays.. its not uncommon

 

2 The question was asking about ccws in general in school

 

3 The question was asking about ccws in general in school

 

Many people are pro ccw, but have all kinds of restictions with it. Are you pro ccw? If so to what extent with respect to schools?

[BStowers023]

1 plenty of kids have late birthdays.. its not uncommon

 

2 The question was asking about ccws in general in school

 

3 The question was asking about ccws in general in school

 

Many people are pro ccw, but have all kinds of restictions with it. Are you pro ccw? If so to what extent with respect to schools?

 

Armed security.

[V8 Beast]

Im also bringing up a different topic in a way since at 18/19 they cant get a ccw anyway. Old enough to fight for our country but not old enough for ccw.

 

 

I agree 100% with armed security or police officers. I dont want teachers or kids with guns.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Teachers have their hands full. I wouldn't put the responsibility in the hands of an educator to utilize a firearm. Now if a teacher ha the desire to protect themselves and is adequately trained, different scenario. To force that kind of responsibility is like asking a brain surgeon to fix a collapsing bridge. I do commend the NRA's proposal for such security measures. I mean we do have a branch in the government called The Department of Homeland Security last I checked. Instead of foreign terrorism, we should look at our domestic threat to our own people.

[copperhead]

Armed guards, teachers with tasers if they volunteer to get trained on it. I don't see even Miss Feinstein having an issue with that

[Adam]

I don't think armed guards are the answer, honestly they would be just sitting in a school not doing anything forever. I think most people are thinking that the armed guards are going to be ex-whatever service or super trained personnel, but it is going to be some fat mall cop type and I am willing to bet there will be more stories of the security people causing more problems than stopping shootings. Once all of the political and media showboating dies down people will immediately try to cut budgets again and eventually even though someone's kid goes to a school somewhere or someplace on the planet you will wonder why you are paying somebody to do nothing all day long

 

I am not for arming teachers either, maybe an administrator, or if a teacher wants to carry concealed let them do that. I would be willing to bet most teachers are liberal leaning and wouldn't want to carry even if you made them.

 

Taxes will be where the money comes from obviously, I already pay to educate your children!

 

Why can't schools be secured against someone from getting inside anyway? As in how the building is designed or built. Most schools are pretty secure as it is. A little responsibility from the faculty in checking who comes in and making sure all of the entry points are locked doesn't seem that hard. If something happens then everyone has someone to blame, and isn't that what we all really want

[V8 Beast]

Its like car insurance. You dont pay because you know you are going to get in an accident, you do it just in case. I'm ok with an added security guard as insurance. It may look like they are doing nothing but the fact they are there could stop some punk from running into a school and no one would ever know.

 

Metal detectors and teachers watching doors would help stop kids from having guns.. but if a person with bad intent walks in the door with the kids in the morning who is going to stop them?

 

After a few scares in my high school we had an armed police officer. Stopped everything! Even when we had fights seeing the people handcuffed afterwards and taken to the station was enough for everyone to think twice. I guess assault charges over suspensions will do that though.

[wagner]

Armed guards, teachers with tasers if they volunteer to get trained on it. I don't see even Miss Feinstein having an issue with that

 

This won't get her re-elected....

[spectragod]

food for thought regarding 4....

Max Silvestri ‏@maxsilvestri

 

There were two armed guards at Columbine so it's weird the NRA didn't bring those guys up on stage to talk about how well that went.

 

Retweeted by Patton Oswalt

 

Those were police officers, actually school resource officers, and their policy dictated that they were not to confront the assailants until other officers arrived, that policy has since been re-written, as have most with the new active shooter training policy's.

 

Just because someone "tweeted" it, it doesn't make it 100% factual....

[russian rocket]

an idea i came up with at work was, how about hire an armed private security guard. than at the beginning of every school year collect from each parent 10-20 dollars or however much it takes to pay the guard 50-60k a year. im willing to bet that after all the shootings, if the school asks the parents for a couple bucks to pay for a security guard to keep their children safe, most would be all for it.

[SpaceGhost]

There is nothing we can do to prevent a psycho killer from killing people and children in crowded places, they give no fucks about laws and one officer in a school will do nothing. I can see employing all these people to be armed at school and one gets disgruntled about pay eventually and offs a bunch of kids and then kills himself to prove my point which is we can't do anything to stop this. Even if that didn't happen all one would have to do is walk up to the school playground during recess and open fire, they'd never enter the school. Many playgrounds are in the open, my daughter's doesn't even have a fence. What's next maximum security schools? 10 foot concrete walls with razor wire armed guards in towers? Ok so we ban all guns, now they build a homemade bomb, use a knife, or make a chemical weapon out of house hold cleaners. Just take away all freedom. All of this is a knee jerk reaction. It's a tragedy, doesn't happen anywhere near enough to spend billions we don't have to pay people to do nothing 99.9% of the time. As Carlin says the Public sucks.

[RedRocket1647545505]

There is nothing we can do to prevent a psycho killer from killing people and children in crowded places, they give no fucks about laws and one officer in a school will do nothing. I can see employing all these people to be armed at school and one gets disgruntled about pay eventually and offs a bunch of kids and then kills himself to prove my point which is we can't do anything to stop this. Even if that didn't happen all one would have to do is walk up to the school playground during recess and open fire, they'd never enter the school. Many playgrounds are in the open, my daughter's doesn't even have a fence. What's next maximum security schools? 10 foot concrete walls with razor wire armed guards in towers? Ok so we ban all guns, now they build a homemade bomb, use a knife, or make a chemical weapon out of house hold cleaners. Just take away all freedom. All of this is a knee jerk reaction. It's a tragedy, doesn't happen anywhere near enough to spend billions we don't have to pay people to do nothing 99.9% of the time. As Carlin says the Public sucks.

 

I'm more in agreement with this post than anything. However, knowing how dumb the citizens of this country have become, you know the 'do nothing' answer isn't going to fly. People want to feel like they've done something, even if it really will not be effective. Hence, guns are the easy target.

 

I really do hate the majority of the citizens of this country anymore. The country is turning into a shithole of laziness, irresponsibility, and stupidity.

[Furloaf]

Alright I'll give my opinions. I don't think armed guards are feasible from cost or effectiveness standpoints. For cost wise, just 1 per school would be an extra salary (and training, gear) for already cash-strapped schools, and for effectiveness a single guard isn't going to do much; the guard just becomes the first target. If more are added then that many more salaries are added, and to be really effective then the schools need more physical/access security so there are renovation costs as well.

 

From a cost/benefit analysis this would fall apart again. All condolences to every family ever affected by a school shooting, but the fact is that they are very rare occurrences. I read from another article, not sure if the figure is correct but it seems within reason, that there are ~95,000 elementary and secondary schools throughout the country. The number of school shootings per year averages less than 10 (Wikipedia lists 40 in the 1989-2012 period but not sure how inclusive that is). At a conservative rate of 10/year that is 0.0105% - very unlikely, thus the vast majority spent on increased security (for every school as a whole) is to combat an issue that barely even exists. However, the nice thing about our system is that individual communities are mostly responsible for funding their schools. So if a community votes to increase the security of their school, let them go right ahead - I'd rather not have state or federal funds go towards it, however.

 

Now my thoughts on what would be effective prevention: First, repeal the "gun-free zones." They have zero effectiveness at preventing any crime for obvious reasons (if you need to know, those that intend to commit murder aren't going to be stopped by a sign prohibiting guns). The gun-free zones are effective at preventing law-abiding citizens from defending themselves or stopping, or at least slowing down a spree killer. Also, though this doesn't fully apply to a suicidal criminal, but a major deterrent to crime is the possibility of armed resistance - instituting a gun-free zone just increases the lucrativeness to be a target of criminals looking for little resistance. Even a spree killer with suicidal intent will pick a target with lower expected resistance so as they can do more harm before being forced to kill themselves. So back to the point, repeal the gun-free zones for schools and allow teachers, staff to CCW. Those that choose go through the exact same process - all the training and processing. I say not to make it mandatory as CCW would still work at a deterrent even if no teacher at a school chooses to CCW; it is the possibility of armed resistance that works as the deterrent, not the actual arming. However, if an incident does happen a CCW could possibly limit the casualties. Also, it removes the "well, the guard will just be the first one shot" problem. I would still agree that CCW shouldn't be allowed in places that serve alcohol, and government buildings (where assassination/revenge killing of officials is a risk), but where this is a concern the institutions already have armed personnel and physical security.

 

Also, mental healthcare really could use a reform, but also how society treats and perceives those with mental disorders/disabilities. There is still a strong stigma that prevents some of those that need help from seeking it. This issue is beyond the scope of the thread so I won't delve into it.

[BigOxley]

Nut job killed responding firefighters this morning in NY with some sort of long gun.

[V8 Beast]

I dont care if the school is a fort as long as they can get inside and learn. I went to school out at Franklin middle. We got to watch a shootout on the last recess we were allowed to take outside. I wish that school was a fort lol.

 

We are not talking about fool proof plans, thats impossible. What we are talking about is making it safer. If.. because its all what if.. a gaurd is in the school the punk criminal may choose a different target. If the gaurd is the first target it may alert other people fast enough to act and save lives. If a guard is there they could make it 10 killed instead of 30. Just like how we pay for certain insurance... Are the 68 guards that will stop crimes worth paying for 100000 of them to have jobs? I know I pay car insurance every month on a lifeless hunk of metal that I dont even drive. Whats giving $10-$30 a month to the government (if its even that much)to possibly help protect the kids I do love?

[SpaceGhost]

Whats giving $10-$30 a month to the government (if its even that much)to possibly help protect the kids I do love?

 

Because I don't believe it will be used to do that, they will use $2 for it and misappropriate the rest to some fucking firm that scams the government off a contract aimed at protecting the students and 6 senators are secret partners that are made into muli-multi-millionaires. And eventually more kids will be killed anyway.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Benjamin

[V8 Beast]

Because I don't believe it will be used to do that, they will use $2 for it and misappropriate the rest to some fucking firm that scams the government off a contract aimed at protecting the students and 6 senators are secret partners that are made into muli-multi-millionaires. And eventually more kids will be killed anyway.

 

Sad.. but very true. The schools would end up with Paul Blart.

[351mach11647545510]

Correct me if I'm wrong, most of the info I have heard has been second hand. Most schools today are locked door right? I heard that was the case with this school and the guy just shot through the glass and entered. I understand the issue of ending up with Paul blart, but why are outer doors not locked and "bullet proof" with some kind of security guard sitting there monitoring people who come in and out. Verifying people by state issued ID's and then verifying they are an approved party to be there before even allowing that door to be opened. And that's for children's schools. I also don't understand the whole prohibiting CCW carriers to carry on school grounds. Faculty at the very least should have that option through grade schools. College campuses should be like going anywhere else in public with your CCW.

[RedRocket1647545505]

I think they should put a security levy on every school districts ballot. Something separate from the general funding. I bet it would pass in damn near every district.

[2011SVT]

I think they should put a security levy on every school districts ballot. Something separate from the general funding. I bet it would pass in damn near every district.

 

I agree. A new federal program is not the answer as it becomes someone's cash cow 2 seconds after the ink is dry with zero accountability for results.

 

Local control is always better in something like this and gives parents the choice of what kind of programs they want implemented and are willing to pay for. An important part of that is an assessment of risk. I have seen a number of thoughtful arguments raised that events in Connecticut while horrific and sensational are statistically really rare and if we wanted to do more to significantly reduce childhood deaths, we'd look at better ways to child proof our swimming pools.

 

Last point: If you own firearms, please secure them. My grandfather had loaded firearms all over his house and never had either an accident or an assault committed with any of those guns. However, I accept that we live in a different age/time/culture and I am morally responsible for possible misuse of dangerous tools I fail to 'keep out of reach' of the incompetent and/or evil. My security is pretty tight but I am going to tighten it even further.

 

Waiting for those clueless fucks in Washington to do anything meaningful is a fool's errand. Most of the time it's better to pray they just argue themselves into a corner like usual.