Chief8one Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Been toying with the idea of picking up a 4 door GTi. Just wondering the pros and cons of the two motors. Reliability? Ease to work on? Common issues? Common issues between the years would be helpful as well. Discuss Thank you in advance p.s. these would all be backed by a manual transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Brian Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Jones can add more, but in a nutshell, 2.0T or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Yup 2.0t or bust. Huge power advantage. K04 1.8 = k03 2.0 w/ flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief8one Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I test drove an automatic version. I liked the car for the most part, but I had the sales guy in the car with me so I couldn't go buck wild with it. It seemed like a tight overall car and seemed to have good power. I didn't notice a lot of lag, but then again it's been a long time since 1.) Driven a car with > 150hp and 2.) a Turbo car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickey4271647545519 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 2.0t does everything better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRTurbo04 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 It seemed like a tight overall car and seemed to have good power. I didn't notice a lot of lag, but then again it's been a long time since 1.) Driven a car with > 150hp and 2.) a Turbo car. dont worry neither of the two will do anything to tickle your pickle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I guess I should probably ask what your goals really are. If you are planning on going balls out race car status, it will be cheaper and easier to go 1.8T. If you want a car that you will throw basic mods on and enjoy, 2.0T all the way. The 2.0T FSI cars have a HPFP follower that needs replaced somewhat regularly (20-25ksh) for most lightly modded cars, but is easy to do. The Auto's really suck the life outta the car. Drive a 2.0T 6MT. If you want to drive a 2.0T w/ Flash & Downpipe let me know.. Mine has coming up on 140K and it's been awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 dont worry neither of the two will do anything to tickle your pickle. Accord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief8one Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I guess I should probably ask what your goals really are. If you are planning on going balls out race car status, it will be cheaper and easier to go 1.8T. If you want a car that you will throw basic mods on and enjoy, 2.0T all the way. The 2.0T FSI cars have a HPFP follower that needs replaced somewhat regularly (20-25ksh) for most lightly modded cars, but is easy to do. The Auto's really suck the life outta the car. Drive a 2.0T 6MT. If you want to drive a 2.0T w/ Flash & Downpipe let me know.. Mine has coming up on 140K and it's been awesome. Thank you for the response Honestly, I'm looking for a car that I car travel with cross country, get decent gas mileage and run some autocross events/track events along the way. Reliability is a must and I don't want anything that will be a PITA along the way. Modifications would be minimal if any. I was originally looking at the mazdaspeed 3/6 STi/EVO, but I'm open to anything with four doors. My job entails going anywhere I want to really, so the vehicle needs to be able to haul at the same time. Thanks again for responses. School me what FSI and HPFP means. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Thank you for the response Honestly, I'm looking for a car that I car travel with cross country, get decent gas mileage and run some autocross events/track events along the way. Reliability is a must and I don't want anything that will be a PITA along the way. Modifications would be minimal if any. I was originally looking at the mazdaspeed 3/6 STi/EVO, but I'm open to anything with four doors. My job entails going anywhere I want to really, so the vehicle needs to be able to haul at the same time. Thanks again for responses. School me what FSI and HPFP means. thanks The 2.0T's are Direct Injection motors. There is a low pressure pump in the fuel tank as usual, but a High Pressure Fuel Pump is driven off the intake cam and supplies the 2000psi+ of fuel pressure to the FSI rail for the injectors. That pump uses what you might call a "flat tappet" design, and is subject to wear. There is a warranty on most fuel pump follower/cam issues till around 110k or so IIRC. Basically the maintenance involves removing the HPFP and replacing the fuel pump follower at regular intervals to prevent cam wear and eventual intake cam replacement. It's not a hard procedure, and isn't much longer than an oil change. Here's a PDF on the procedure which I've been using for years now: http://freepdfhosting.com/8791e81dac.pdf If not taken care of, eventually the fuel pump rod will punch a hole in the follower, then score your cam and eventually break that, which usually causes the cam chain up top to snap and well, ruin everything. Also, FSI/TSI motors are subject to excessive carbon buildup on the back of the intake valves. This tends to affect cars that are driven like a grandma, and short trips. The cars that are driven like a red headed stepchild and for longer periods seem to have less issues in this area. The 1.8T is much simpler in design, and tradition port injected motor. Parts are cheaper ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Wife and I are currently both daily driving 1.8t cars with a combined mileage of nearly 350k miles. Both still get 29-30 mpg on the freeway and I wouldn't hesitate to jump in either and drive anywhere right now That said, based on your goals the 2.0t is better platform for your needs. Follow the advise of jones and stay in front of maintenance and it will run forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 jones i'm trying not to bash here, but do they know why that 2.0t motor eats oil, and why they say 1 qt/1k miles is acceptable??. my 87 turbocoupe didnt go through oil like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleskate Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Going back to your comment, go test drive a Speed3. I can personally attest that on long freeway trips, I have done 38+mpg in my roommate's Speed. Also, it's a bit bigger than a GTI, especially the back seat/trunk, and if you care about performance, it comes with a K04 turbo stock, and will kill GTI's stock for stock all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 The only dimension that is real world bigger on a 3 hatch than GTI is load floor. The radical slope eats up the ability to use that dimension. Also, almost every company I have read about uses the 1qt/1000 miles is acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 The Auto's really suck the life outta the car. Drive a 2.0T 6MT. In the a4, yes. Dsg in the GTI is a great choice, although I found it boring as any auto is. There is a different engine in the GTI starting 2008.5 called a tsi. Its a timing chain has a better flowing head, cheaper to mod, and much less issues than the FSI which is belt. My 09 GTI had 1 issue in 76800 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoolin_s14 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I have a 2.0t a4 with 116k no real problems yet. With an intake, tune, test pipe, downpipe it's a blast with the 6 spd. just buy hpfp cam followers in bulk lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickey4271647545519 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Going back to your comment, go test drive a Speed3. I can personally attest that on long freeway trips, I have done 38+mpg in my roommate's Speed. Also, it's a bit bigger than a GTI, especially the back seat/trunk, and if you care about performance, it comes with a K04 turbo stock, and will kill GTI's stock for stock all day. Speed3 getting 38+? Theyre rated for 25, that's been a big deciding factor in me wanting a 2.0t over a speed3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 jones i'm trying not to bash here, but do they know why that 2.0t motor eats oil, and why they say 1 qt/1k miles is acceptable??. my 87 turbocoupe didnt go through oil like that. The only 2.0T's that eat oil are ones with issues.... Mine is coming up on 140K and doesn't use any between 5K oil changes. And all it does it get driven every day, hard. No bashing, but why do BBF's only last 1 start? :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Speed3 getting 38+? Theyre rated for 25, that's been a big deciding factor in me wanting a 2.0t over a speed3. :lolguy::dumb: The only 2.0T's that eat oil are ones with issues.... Mine is coming up on 140K and doesn't use any between 5K oil changes. And all it does it get driven every day, hard. No bashing, but why do BBF's only last 1 start? :gabe: Didn't burn a drop of oil in my tsi either. DadS FSI doesn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleskate Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Speed3 getting 38+? Theyre rated for 25, that's been a big deciding factor in me wanting a 2.0t over a speed3. What the EPA "suggests", and what I have actually seen and calculated from several tanks of gas over roadtrips differs. Then again, I have also hit 38.8mpg in my old regular Mazda3 and 36+ in a Miata. DI + Turbo + 6 speed = great fuel economy if you stay out of boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 What the EPA "suggests", and what I have actually seen and calculated from several tanks of gas over roadtrips differs. Then again, I have also hit 38.8mpg in my old regular Mazda3 and 36+ in a Miata. DI + Turbo + 6 speed = great fuel economy if you stay out of boost. I See you got an M something? Details? :megusta: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBussman1647545507 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 The 2.0T's are Direct Injection motors. There is a low pressure pump in the fuel tank as usual, but a High Pressure Fuel Pump is driven off the intake cam and supplies the 2000psi+ of fuel pressure to the FSI rail for the injectors. That pump uses what you might call a "flat tappet" design, and is subject to wear. There is a warranty on most fuel pump follower/cam issues till around 110k or so IIRC. Basically the maintenance involves removing the HPFP and replacing the fuel pump follower at regular intervals to prevent cam wear and eventual intake cam replacement. It's not a hard procedure, and isn't much longer than an oil change. Here's a PDF on the procedure which I've been using for years now: http://freepdfhosting.com/8791e81dac.pdf If not taken care of, eventually the fuel pump rod will punch a hole in the follower, then score your cam and eventually break that, which usually causes the cam chain up top to snap and well, ruin everything. Also, FSI/TSI motors are subject to excessive carbon buildup on the back of the intake valves. This tends to affect cars that are driven like a grandma, and short trips. The cars that are driven like a red headed stepchild and for longer periods seem to have less issues in this area. The 1.8T is much simpler in design, and tradition port injected motor. Parts are cheaper ect. this, other than this bit the 2.0t is great. I've done a few cam, hpfp and follower jobs, most people don't know about this issue. Supposedly the replacement camshaft is stronger. when the pump is loud it's good, when it's really loud it's bad, eventually it'll set a code for low fuel pressure. I think all the ones I did were 06/07 maybe the newer ones are better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 this, other than this bit the 2.0t is great. I've done a few cam, hpfp and follower jobs, most people don't know about this issue. Supposedly the replacement camshaft is stronger. when the pump is loud it's good, when it's really loud it's bad, eventually it'll set a code for low fuel pressure. I think all the ones I did were 06/07 maybe the newer ones are better? A or B rev camshaft's doesn't really matter much, once the follower wears down it's screwed. All you have to do is keep the follower in good condition, which on a stock pump'd car is easily 25k-30k intervals which isn't much, and it's a $40 part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 No bashing, but why do BBF's only last 1 start? :gabe: sbf and multiple starts, only a few trips around the block though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Borgen Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I guess I should probably ask what your goals really are. If you are planning on going balls out race car status, it will be cheaper and easier to go 1.8T. If you want a car that you will throw basic mods on and enjoy, 2.0T all the way. The 2.0T FSI cars have a HPFP follower that needs replaced somewhat regularly (20-25ksh) for most lightly modded cars, but is easy to do. The Auto's really suck the life outta the car. Drive a 2.0T 6MT. If you want to drive a 2.0T w/ Flash & Downpipe let me know.. Mine has coming up on 140K and it's been awesome. major +1 there and well summarized, Jones!.....the fuel pump follower is really the only major concern with the motor....It can last up to 40k miles maybe but it's a very easy job...it wears down and the HPFP doesn't function as well..the later TFSI 2.0T is better but really you can't go wrong with any MK5 over the MK4 Some early 1.8Ts have oil sludging problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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