THIS JUST IN "creepy ass cracker" not racist!

[iwishiwascool]

Back to topic, had race not been an issue in this case (say it was a white on white crime or black on black crime) I wonder if the outcome would change.

 

Take race, media scrutiny, and publicity out of this and its a self-defense case. I'll concede Zimmerman shouldn't have been playing his best impression of Paul Blart Mall Cop but if Trayvon had simply kept walking and not stopped, approached and then assaulted Zimmerman none of this would've happened. Sad that a kid lost his life, then again he probably shouldn't have assaulted an armed man.

 

If Zimmerman is guilty than its a huge loss to self-defense cases everywhere and any gun owner should be wary of thinking about using his weapon. Should Zimmerman win and be chosen not-guilty I wonder what kind of public outcry will take place, rioting maybe?

 

It's not clear that the approach was made my Martin, it seems likely that Zimmerman was the one who initiated contact. If that is true, does that change your conclusion. If a squatty latino dude cornered you in a dark alley would you "stand your ground" or run and flee?

 

I don't think this is a gun rights or self-defense case in any way. Bottom line, if you go looking for trouble and find it, you simply cannot claim self defense.

[HotCarl]

It's not clear that the approach was made my Martin, it seems likely that Zimmerman was the one who initiated contact. If that is true, does that change your conclusion. If a squatty latino dude cornered you in a dark alley would you "stand your ground" or run and flee?

 

I don't think this is a gun rights or self-defense case in any way. Bottom line, if you go looking for trouble and find it, you simply cannot claim self defense.

 

From the testimony that I've read in addition to the 911 calls that Zimmerman made it sounds like he was pursuing Martin, lost him, then Martin came from the side of a house and approached Zimmerman. Martin was the one who initiated contact, assaulted Zimmerman, was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head into the curb (photos show his injuries were consistent with this statement). It was only when Martin was on top of Zimmerman that Zimmerman pulled and used his weapon on martin, a single shot to the chest.

 

Of course none of this matters, what I think, what you think, we can all argue until the verdict is read but what matters is what the jury hears and what they believe. This is what I think happened but again that's not worth anything.

 

Now if you're asking what I would do in this situation if someone is following me and I have an avenue of escape I'm calling the police and leaving. Instead Martin decides to approach and assault an armed man... which was his mistake.

[SpaceGhost]

I thought this whole case was about a hoodie sweatshirt?

[1fast5gp]

It's not clear that the approach was made my Martin, it seems likely that Zimmerman was the one who initiated contact. If that is true, does that change your conclusion. If a squatty latino dude cornered you in a dark alley would you "stand your ground" or run and flee?

 

I don't think this is a gun rights or self-defense case in any way. Bottom line, if you go looking for trouble and find it, you simply cannot claim self defense.

 

It's more of a stand your ground case. He didn't go looking for trouble, he was trying to keep his neighborhood safe. So what that he didn't listen to the dispatcher, no laws were being broken by following Trevon Martin.

 

I thought this whole case was about a hoodie sweatshirt?

 

And skittles.

[TTQ B4U]

I tend to have a big problem with this case and how the race card has been tossed around.

 

x2 but it's the only card they have. Too bad Aunt Jamima on the stand introduced the description of him as a Creep Ass Cracker" as part of their defense Oops. (forgive me, I'm eating some pancakes). Add in her smirk at :50 and you know she's a fucking liar. Also, someone please tell her how to pronounce "ask" too. Fuck that drives me crazy!!

 

I wanna be an oyster cracker, those things are fucking delicious

 

Had me some Skyline last night. Yum!

 

Back to topic, had race not been an issue in this case (say it was a white on white crime or black on black crime) I wonder if the outcome would change.

 

If it was Latino on Latino or White on White this case wouldn't have made the news in any way. Ratings and drama will forever surround anything involving a black on XX crime. It's the nature of it all. I'm awaiting the day the "victim mentality" finally ends.

 

but if Trayvon had simply kept walking and not stopped, approached and then assaulted Zimmerman none of this would've happened.

could be said both ways....but in the end, Trayvon should have just called the cops and not his friends. that is if he was truly scared or worried about some dude following him. Why didn't he?

 

Should Zimmerman win and be chosen not-guilty I wonder what kind of public outcry will take place, rioting maybe?

the black community will still blame the white community for the actions of a non-white guy. they will likely just blame the white lawyers.....

 

It's not clear that the approach was made my Martin, it seems likely that Zimmerman was the one who initiated contact. If that is true, does that change your conclusion. If a squatty latino dude cornered you in a dark alley would you "stand your ground" or run and flee?

 

I'd flee and call the cops, not call my friends and then get into a fight.

 

I don't think this is a gun rights or self-defense case in any way. Bottom line, if you go looking for trouble and find it, you simply cannot claim self defense.

I don't see where Z was out looking to kill the kid. Nothing wrong with confronting the guy. Might not be the best course for him to have taken but from what we're hearing and reading Trayvon took the aggressive turn that caused Z to defend himself.

 

My guess is there's more to the conversations with his friends via phone that we're not hearing about.

 

From the testimony that I've read in addition to the 911 calls that Zimmerman made it sounds like he was pursuing Martin, lost him, then Martin came from the side of a house and approached Zimmerman. Martin was the one who initiated contact, assaulted Zimmerman, was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head into the curb (photos show his injuries were consistent with this statement). It was only when Martin was on top of Zimmerman that Zimmerman pulled and used his weapon on martin, a single shot to the chest.

 

^^ Agree.

 

Now if you're asking what I would do in this situation if someone is following me and I have an avenue of escape I'm calling the police and leaving. Instead Martin decides to approach and assault

^^ this

[Buck531]

If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Though I have just heard this in passing conversation and have not confirmed it - I was told that there are ~20 reported incidents of Zimmerman tailing black 'suspects'. Supposedly, the Defense tried to prevent the Prosecution from allowing them to testify, but I believe 5 of them are allowed to for whatever reason.

 

Personally, if I was the Defense, I would allow every single one of them to testify and then point out the fact that, of the 21 people he's tailed, only one of them got shot. Why do you supposed that is?

[Putty]

You are totally right, it is just a word with no historical context whatsoever.

 

http://www.psywar.org/psywar/images/race_lynching.jpg

 

Knowing the etymology doesn't make the significance disappear you stupid fuck.

 

.....................

Seeing shit like that angers me. A damn town gathering to hang people. Two people that probably took some food due to starving for tried to escape their "owner". It's truly a shame ANYONE uses that term considering the background behind it.

[LJ]

Though I have just heard this in passing conversation and have not confirmed it - I was told that there are ~20 reported incidents of Zimmerman tailing black 'suspects'. Supposedly, the Defense tried to prevent the Prosecution from allowing them to testify, but I believe 5 of them are allowed to for whatever reason.

 

Personally, if I was the Defense, I would allow every single one of them to testify and then point out the fact that, of the 21 people he's tailed, only one of them got shot. Why do you supposed that is?

 

I posted links in the other thread. I believe in the confirmed stories, all went to the cops before Zimmerman could get them to stop. I think that would help sway the jury towards the prosecution. Althought I still think that Murder 2 is a ridiculous charge and it should be no more than manslaughter.

 

What bothers me is that the guy has played cop for years. He most likely thought he was going after Martin to make some far fetched citizens arrest. Regardless of where the fight started, what we all need to do is take a step back and realize that his vigiliantism ended up with someone dead.

[iwishiwascool]

Right, I'm sure the cops would rush right over there if a black youth called to complain that a "white" dude was following him.

[TTQ B4U]

Right, I'm sure the cops would rush right over there if a black youth called to complain that a "white" dude was following him.

 

I'm sure the prosecution will pull that racism card at some point in the process.

 

Note to all black people.....don't bother calling 911; they don't care.

[iwishiwascool]

I'm sure the prosecution will pull that racism card at some point in the process.

 

Note to all black people.....don't bother calling 911; they don't care.

 

If Martin had been white this trial would not be happening. Zimmerman pulled the "race card" when he decided to be a hero.

[TTQ B4U]

If Martin had been white this trial would not be happening. Zimmerman pulled the "race card" when he decided to be a hero.

 

So you're saying that in reality the trial shouldn't be happening. Me too. Oh, but because the kid was black, it's now a crime.....

 

It's not Zimmerman's fault that the guy who attacked him was black and that the public gravitates to drama when black youth is involved. I'm sorry but following a person, regardless of color and even confronting them isn't a crime. Last I heard Zimmerman shot while he was laying on the ground getting his head slammed into the concrete.

[iwishiwascool]

So you're saying that in reality the trial shouldn't be happening. Me too. Oh, but because the kid was black, it's now a crime.....

 

It's not Zimmerman's fault that the guy who attacked him was black and that the public gravitates to drama when black youth is involved.

 

No it would have been a crime had the kid been white, but Zimmermans bias would not have led him on that chase.

 

Your inability to put yourself in someone else's shoes makes me shocked that you are a strong salesman.

[bicranium]

Back to topic, had race not been an issue in this case (say it was a white on white crime or black on black crime) I wonder if the outcome would change.

 

Now imagine she's white...

 

http://i.imgur.com/MSkVQnt.jpg

[TTQ B4U]

No it would have been a crime had the kid been white, but Zimmermans bias would not have led him on that chase.

 

So white people aren't ever stereotyped or profiled and followed as a suspicious person? Yep, I'm sure Zimmerman is just got Latino on Black race issue...

 

Your inability to put yourself in someone else's shoes makes me shocked that you are a strong salesman.

I put myself in his shoes. If I'm a young kid being tailed by a strange guy, I'm calling the cops or at the very least my dad, not my girlfriend...as I'm runnin away. I'm not going to likely stick around and pick a fight.....but my guess is Trayvon thought he was bad-ass enough to do so and decided to start a confrontation or at the very least tried to bash the guys head in. Yep...that's Zimmerman's fault. Heaven forbid he pull a gun out and shoot a kid on top of him beating his ass. But hey, since the kid got involved in a fight and then got shot, it's automatically the shooters fault.

[LJ]

So white people aren't ever stereotyped or profiled and followed as a suspicious person? Yep, I'm sure Zimmerman is just got Latino on Black race issue...

 

I put myself in his shoes. If I'm a young kid being tailed by a strange guy, I'm calling the cops or at the very least my dad, not my girlfriend...as I'm runnin away. I'm not going to likely stick around and pick a fight.....but my guess is Trayvon thought he was bad-ass enough to do so and decided to start a confrontation or at the very least tried to bash the guys head in. Yep...that's Zimmerman's fault. Heaven forbid he pull a gun out and shoot a kid on top of him beating his ass. But hey, since the kid got involved in a fight and then got shot, it's automatically the shooters fault.

 

The shooter was wrong to get out and go after Martin. He just wanted to get his rocks off playing cop.

[TTQ B4U]

The shooter was wrong to get out and go after Martin. He just wanted to get his rocks off playing cop.

 

So he's guilty of chasing after the kid or is the crime centered around what sparked the shooting? Last I checked if I catch up to someone huffing and ask what their doing around here, I'm not at that point breaking any laws.

[LJ]

So he's guilty of chasing after the kid or is the crime centered around what sparked the shooting? Last I checked if I catch up to someone huffing and ask what their doing around here, I'm not at that point breaking any laws.

 

intimidation, harrasment, all kinds of things it could be. How do we know that Zimmerman didn't try to intimidate Martin by showing him the gun? Or was trying to grab him to make his citizen's arrest? Zimmeran was wrong to begin with. He was wrong to grab the gun and get out of the car.

[TTQ B4U]

intimidation, harrasment, all kinds of things it could be.

 

I'm not seeing charges of intimidation or harassment here.

 

How do we know that Zimmerman didn't try to intimidate Martin by showing him the gun? Or was trying to grab him to make his citizen's arrest?

Until we know that why is it we're acting like that was the case? Prove it and I'll bite.

 

Zimmeran was wrong to begin with. He was wrong to grab the gun and get out of the car.

So Zimmerman was wrong to have a gun on him?

[LJ]

I'm not seeing charges of intimidation or harassment here.

Because the DA wanted to be able to say "we charged him to the full extent of the law".

 

Until we know that why is it we're acting like that was the case? Prove it and I'll bite.

It was a question. You don't know any more than I do. It's very believable, due to Zimmerman's history, to put forward the theory that he attempted to put Martin under citizen's arrest.

 

So Zimmerman was wrong to have a gun on him?

Where did I say that? Did he not grab his gun before he got out of the car to go play cop?

[TTQ B4U]

Because the DA wanted to be able to say "we charged him to the full extent of the law".

 

then why not multiple counts why just one?

 

It was a question. You don't know any more than I do. It's very believable, due to Zimmerman's history, to put forward the theory that he attempted to put Martin under citizen's arrest.

we could put theories together all day long. young black teen with history of weed use, being suspended from school, etc. I prefer to stick to the details we do know.

 

The prosecution wants to cry "racial profiling" and inject some emotion into it all. Defense, especially Zimmerman are wise to not react with emotion. Never a good move for a defendant. The facts are that the neighborhood had been burglarized by hoodie-wearing black males. That's not racial profiling, Zimmerman was just following someone fitting the description he knows about.

 

Where did I say that? Did he not grab his gun before he got out of the car to go play cop?

He likely grabbed his gun before he left his house just as I often do.

[1fast5gp]

intimidation, harrasment, all kinds of things it could be. How do we know that Zimmerman didn't try to intimidate Martin by showing him the gun? Or was trying to grab him to make his citizen's arrest? Zimmeran was wrong to begin with. He was wrong to grab the gun and get out of the car.

 

Seems like you have already made up your mind before you have heard all the evidence. Martin was already a deliquent kid, how do you know he wasn't doing anything to cause suspicion?

[LJ]

then why not multiple counts why just one?

There are quite a few law blog articles on it. It's a PR issue. A stupid one at that. Many think that he should have had 3 counts, harrasing, intimidating, and involuntary manslaughter.

 

we could put theories together all day long. young black teen with history of weed use, etc. I prefer to stick to the details we do know.

Black and smoked weed? He probably should've been locked up years ago!!! The fact that every account says that words were exchanged before the fight leaves it very probable that is what Zimmerman did.

 

He likely grabbed his gun before he left his house just as I often do.

Yeah, and it's uncomfortable driving with your gun pushing into your hip from the seatbelt, so he most likely grabbed it as he was getting out of the car. And his actions leading up to the shooting is the image giving responsible gun owners a bad name.

[LJ]

The prosecution wants to cry "racial profiling" and inject some emotion into it all. Defense, especially Zimmerman are wise to not react with emotion. Never a good move for a defendant. The facts are that the neighborhood had been burglarized by hoodie-wearing black males. That's not racial profiling, Zimmerman was just following someone fitting the description he knows about.

 

 

I'm not following the racial profiling. I am of the opinion that Zimmerman was a wannabe cop and thought it was his job to go after anyone he thought to be suspicious. It was not his job.

 

"But wait, he was the neighborhood watch volunteer" you may cry.

 

Neighborhood watch volunteers are supposed to stay 100% uninvolved and are asked to not carry guns while on watch (some sherrif departments require it)