LJ Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Seems like you have already made up your mind before you have heard all the evidence. Martin was already a deliquent kid, how do you know he wasn't doing anything to cause suspicion? Suspicion has nothing to do with it! It was not Zimmerman's job to play cop and go after him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 There are quite a few law blog articles on it. It's a PR issue. A stupid one at that. Many think that he should have had 3 counts, harrasing, intimidating, and involuntary manslaughter. fact is the prosecution didn't. Black and smoked weed? He probably should've been locked up years ago!!! The fact that every account says that words were exchanged before the fight leaves it very probable that is what Zimmerman did. My point exactly, let's not speculate. No crime in exchanging words. Probability also doesn't equal beyond reasonable doubt. Yeah, and it's uncomfortable driving with your gun pushing into your hip from the seatbelt, so he most likely grabbed it as he was getting out of the car. And his actions leading up to the shooting is the image giving responsible gun owners a bad name.It's still not against the law to carry your gun or arm yourself upon exiting your vehicle. I don't know the area of town he was in, but I've got to go down to Morse/Karl Road area today and you bet I'm not going to be unarmed. Suspicion has nothing to do with it! It was not Zimmerman's job to play cop and go after him! Still not a crime nor murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 It's still not against the law to carry your gun or arm yourself upon exiting your vehicle. I don't know the area of town he was in, but I've got to go down to Morse/Karl Road area today and you bet I'm not going to be unarmed. That's not the point, the point was his intent. I've probably carried more over the years than you, but I don't grab my gun and get out of the car to go confront someone I think may look suspicious, because I don't want to play cop. Still not a crime nor murder. Doesn't mean it wasn't the wrong thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I'm not following the racial profiling. I am of the opinion that Zimmerman was a wannabe cop and thought it was his job to go after anyone he thought to be suspicious. It was not his job. Good because the race card against Zimmerman is bullshit. Now Trayvon, that's a different story as his using of Cracker isn't exactly innocent. "But wait, he was the neighborhood watch volunteer" you may cry. Neighborhood watch volunteers are supposed to stay 100% uninvolved and are asked to not carry guns while on watch (some sherrif departments require it)Zimmerman broke no laws in Florida by doing sobecause he has a concealed-weapons permit. In FL they advise not to carry a gun, but it's not illegal for a Neighborhood Watch person to carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Good because the race card against Zimmerman is bullshit. Now Trayvon, that's a different story as his using of Cracker isn't exactly innocent. Zimmerman broke no laws in Florida by doing sobecause he has a concealed-weapons permit. In FL they advise not to carry a gun, but it's not illegal for a Neighborhood Watch person to carry. Depends on the registration with the sherrif dept. He was not registered with the Sherrif or the national Neighborhood Watch Association, kinda just doing his own thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 That's not the point, the point was his intent. I've probably carried more over the years than you, but I don't grab my gun and get out of the car to go confront someone I think may look suspicious, because I don't want to play cop. Doesn't mean it wasn't the wrong thing to do. Your experience and mine is irrelevant here. Also, the wrong thing to do doesn't equal illegal. He was in full rights to carry his gun / arm himself upon exiting the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Your experience and mine is irrelevant here. Also, the wrong thing to do doesn't equal illegal. He was in full rights to carry his gun / arm himself upon exiting the vehicle. When have I argued that it was? Please, show me. I've never argued that and I have no idea why you keep harping on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Depends on the registration with the sherrif dept. He was not registered with the Sherrif or the national Neighborhood Watch Association, kinda just doing his own thing. Their group wasn't and isn't required to be registered as part of the National Neighborhood Watch Association. He wasn't doing his own thing. The community formed the group, The Sanford Policed provided them the signs and information and the residents chose Zimmerman as the coordinator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 When have I argued that it was? Please, show me. I've never argued that and I have no idea why you keep harping on it. You keep implying that things Zimmerman did were "wrong" and I'm harping on it because unless it's illegal it's pointless. If he did things that some of us consider improper or wrong fine, but that doesn't make him guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 You keep implying that things Zimmerman did were "wrong" and I'm harping on it because unless it's illegal it's pointless. If he did things that some of us consider improper or wrong fine, but that doesn't make him guilty. And I already said he wasn't going to be convicted of Murder 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Their group wasn't and isn't required to be registered as part of the National Neighborhood Watch Association. He wasn't doing his own thing. The community formed the group, The Sanford Policed provided them the signs and information and the residents chose Zimmerman as the coordinator. Umm, he was the self appointed watch leader because no one else showed interest in forming the group, which is why he wanted the informational meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Umm, he was the self appointed watch leader because no one else showed interest in forming the group, which is why he wanted the informational meetings. That's odd because Wendy Dorival the Program Coordinator for the Sanford Police has emails out there showing that the NW at Twin Lakes has 25 residents turn out for the formation meeting where she then shared details on the 5 recent burglaries in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 That's odd because Wendy Dorival the Program Coordinator for the Sanford Police has emails out there showing that the NW at Twin Lakes has 25 residents turn out for the formation meeting where she then shared details on the 5 recent burglaries in the area. I read the emails too. But when you go further back, he brought it up at an HOA meeting, no one wanted to do it, so he created it himself, then started having informational meetings. You gotta go further back than the 1 PDF doc that was FOIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I read the emails too. But when you go further back, he brought it up at an HOA meeting, no one wanted to do it, so he created it himself, then started having informational meetings. You gotta go further back than the 1 PDF doc that was FOIA we're going off track....my point to the intial comment is that he wasn't "doing his own thing" if 25 other attended the meeting. there's no correlation between who took the initiative of setting up the NW program and them "doing their own thing" if others are involved. I didn't initially care that our NW Program was being formed but I do attend the meetings. That doesn't mean the lead person didn't/doesn't have our buy-in. If that were the case here Zimmerman would have been the only member. I give the guy credit as I do the person in our neighborhood who took the initiative to set it up. Neither one is rogue or doing their own thing. They are setting up a Community Involved program that others participated in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 And I already said he wasn't going to be convicted of Murder 2. Correct, you agreed with the lead detective that suggested manslaughter. in which case would lead them to pursue Provocation which would yield to a universal standard to determine whether an ordinary person would have been provoked and, if so, would have done committed those same actions. In our society it's viewed that if someone comes chasing after you, it's acceptable to respond verbally and if the provocation continues to leave the area/walk away. It doesn't appear Trayvon did that. Not when witnesses say he was on top of Zimmerman. If it's proven Zimmerman instead provoked Trayvon, Trayvon then verbally and physically tried to get away and then Zimmerman attacked him, then yes, he's guilty. However, we're not yet seeing facts that support that scenario. IMO Trayvon could have run and easily got away from the situation. It's been stated that Zimmerman was breathing heavy when he asked Trayvon what he was doing there.....and he's obviously not a marathon runner. Trayvon could have outrun/distanced Zimmerman. In the end, unless we see some compelling evidence, I hope that Zimmerman will get off on Self Defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I'll just leave this here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I'll just leave this here. That shit wouldn't have happened if Zimmerman was on the case :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 That shit wouldn't have happened if Zimmerman was on the case :gabe: At least the black one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiacfreak142 Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Suspicion has nothing to do with it! It was not Zimmerman's job to play cop and go after him! So can you tell me then that if you have had several break ins right by your house/family, then all of a sudden this kid matching the description, you wouldn't at least want to confront them and tell them to stay the hell out of your community? As far as I we know, that's pretty close to what zimmerman was doing, and without knowing what kind of area he lives in, we can't judge him for carrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 So can you tell me then that if you have had several break ins right by your house/family, then all of a sudden this kid matching the description, you wouldn't at least want to confront them and tell them to stay the hell out of your community? As far as I we know, that's pretty close to what zimmerman was doing, and without knowing what kind of area he lives in, we can't judge him for carrying. No I would not attempt to confront him. Not my job. My job is to protect me and my family first and foremost. Approaching an unknown person because I think they possibly maybe look like someone who broke into houses recently is too much risk to my safety and my future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 No, its not as bad, but does that make it ok to use in a negative way as it was in this case? I tend to have a big problem with this case and how the race card has been tossed around. No one said it was ok. But if people are giving Paula damn Deen a pass for something she said in 2007, and excusing her previous statements because her father or mother or someone was assaulted by a black man so throwing n*gger this and n*gger that around as being cool, what the fuck dude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Because this is relevant and hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 No one said it was ok. But if people are giving Paula damn Deen a pass for something she said in 2007, and excusing her previous statements because her father or mother or someone was assaulted by a black man so throwing n*gger this and n*gger that around as being cool, what the fuck dude? So Paula Deen and others tossed around a racial slur.....OMG is that the end of the fucking world? LOL at those pulling it so far out of context and making a big deal about it. Who gives a shit. Don't like it then don't buy her shit or support her. I could care less if she wakes up every morning and says it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 At least the black one. 1 out of 3 ain't bad and he was just as guilty of trying to take the bike as the hot chick and the other dude and outside the token black ladies interviewed it didn't appear to be a racially diverse park he was in. :whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 So Paula Deen and others tossed around a racial slur.....OMG is that the end of the fucking world? LOL at those pulling it so far out of context and making a big deal about it. Who gives a shit. Don't like it then don't buy her shit or support her. I could care less if she wakes up every morning and says it. And this statement right here shows that you are an apologist, and anyone speaking with you further is just ramming their head into an exceptionally thick wall. Good day to you, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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