Reality Check for CR and myself.

[Orion]

I'm not trolling at all, you made a dumb fucking comment and i called you on it you idiot.

 

And thusly, the thread devolves. Thank you Greg. You truly add so much to the site, and I, and all of us, are appreciative.

[SpaceGhost]

I'm not trolling at all, you made a dumb fucking comment and i called you on it you idiot.

 

That statement meant white males don't talk about racism. How the hell do you read that and take away I want more racism?

 

Signed "The idiot"

[Gergwheel1647545492]

That statement meant white males don't talk about racism. How the hell do you read that and take away I want more racism?

 

Signed "The idiot"

 

I was under the impression based on your comment that white males should not shy away from racism. Meaning that white males should embrace racism. sorry if i misunderstood.

[Miller]

My takeaway is that I'm poor and I need to help influence more racism.

 

I'm so mad right now. I'm buying four black desks on craigslist tonight and I'm going to punch all of them.

[BigOxley]

would anyone on here trade their life for that of someone who is one of those "freeloaders?" A free phone, emergency room healthcare, a free house in the shittiest of neighborhoods, free food at the grocery store in that same neighborhood, public schools that are, in essence, a demilitarized zone.

 

go for it.

[TTQ B4U]

"The most economic unequal place on earth." Then tell me race has nothing to do with it Tim.

 

Great video and interesting. However, a couple notes:

 

The grossly overwieght woman raising 8 kids as a prison gaurd:

 

What role does she and her sister who abandon one of those kids play? Really 7-8 kids? Why? Last I checked having kids was a choice SHE made. Isn't that a situation SHE created? What does race have to do with that?

 

Note Tom Turell. A rich but giving man that seems to live a pretty reasonable and modest lifestyle. A hard working man who has EARNED his money and built a business and genuinely seemed to provide jobs and care for those around him.

 

Note the Mayor. A military guy, a working guy a real man's-man who is responsible. Where are the South-Side men like that? Why is it that WE the rest of society are seen to be responsible for single mom households and dads who abandon them? Time has come for them to be ACCOUNTABLE and for people to STOP MAKING BABIES. DAMN PEOPLE! If you don't have the money to care for yourself, please don't bring a child into the world. It's reckless, sad and in many ways so damn irresponsible. THAT is one of the key reasons so many poor stay poor. kids are expensive to raise.

 

Schools: Does it cost money to study hard and graduate? My son goes to Dublin PUBLIC schools and has skipped the 5th grade and moved right to 6th this year and is in advanced placement classes. How did any amount of money help him do that vs the other kids that perhaps didn't and don't apply themselves like he does? He comes home, does his homework, parents are involved, he reads vs play video games, etc. Smart kid. He's responsible. Would putting this prison guards kids in the private school help them study more? How would that put the "fire in their belly" that they will need to succeed? Would she magically help them with homework? Do those kids parents do that now? I would love to hear more as a follow up story on the south side parents role in raising their own damn kids.

 

She seems like a very real, very nice person. If you have nothing why not move? Nothing in their town is the same as nothing elsewhere but if elsewhere offers you more of an opportunity for a job, then it sounds like a logical move she needs to make happen.

 

Love the story about the restaurant owner, but if her goal is to pay a "living wage" vs minimum wage, she will likely fail. God Bless her for wanting to help but it needs to be with a sound business plan and last I checked, your requirements to support your family are not your bosses responsibilities nor focus. Not unless you work for a not for profit that chooses to put people first.

 

Great job for that young lady Ms Willis that graduated and is onto college. Perhaps that area wouldn't be so depressed if there were more kids like her.

[SpaceGhost]

I was under the impression based on your comment that white males should not shy away from racism. Meaning that white males should embrace racism. sorry if i misunderstood.

 

It's the internet, it happens.

[Brandon]

I don't consider anyone who can afford kids, a brand new STI and every fucking thing Apple has ever made poor, or close to it.

 

hahahaha

[Brandon]

I'm more for cooperate America paying their share not really individuals, CEOs make too much for their share of work, and out sourcing should go away. I recall an Average CEO of a Fortune 500 company makes 356 times what the Average worker makes in the same company, not the janitor, the average paid employee. I don't think the CEO does that much more work.

 

I'm not smart enough to understand everything and many here whether they admit it or not are not either. I just see how fucked it is. I have no answers except maybe start treating EVERYONE like a human being with faults, we all have them.

 

I would argue that many CEO's justify their pay grade by the creation of wealth and market growth they build as leaders... You cant tell me Steve Jobs wasn't worth EVERY penny...as just one example. Or Lucas, or Mullaly, or intels CEO ect. There are out liners to all rules of thumb, think bell curve.

 

However to say "CEOS" don't deserve this and that, I would argue you cant pay the good ones enough.

[RedRocket1647545505]

would anyone on here trade their life for that of someone who is one of those "freeloaders?" A free phone, emergency room healthcare, a free house in the shittiest of neighborhoods, free food at the grocery store in that same neighborhood, public schools that are, in essence, a demilitarized zone.

 

go for it.

 

Not a chance, but then again, I also could not stand sitting around on my ass all day long. I am where I am because I've worked (and still am working) for it. They are where they are because they've collected handouts. You work, you earn. You don't work, you don't earn (unless, of course, you're unable). I think that's pretty simple.

[SpaceGhost]

Tim, why are no scholarships offered to the north school. $2800 a year for a private education is low, St Francis Desales is $8275 if you are Catholic. Columbus Academy was $20,000 for grades 9-12 SY 2011.

[TTQ B4U]

i pay enough in taxes to support at least 10 households in the US for a year. if someone claims they work just as hard as me, then why is it fair i have to pay a disproportionate percentage of my income to support people who are repeatedly rewarded for making horrible decisions in life?

 

^^ THIS

^^ THIS

^^ THIS

^^ THIS

^^ THIS

^^ THIS

 

 

I just checked my direct deposit today and for all the hard work I've put in, I freaking paid out nearly 37% of my gross to bullshit waste of my money taxes and crap that doesn't help me support my family this month. The quarterly bonus I EARNED and worked my ass off for, I got about 50% of it thanks to our Gov't and all that it takes to waste.

 

I'm tired of it and just like this post, it's time the rest of us middle class stop allowing the entitlement programs and lawmakers to tax us to death and take what we earn to give to those that don't. Enough is enough already.

[buelliganx1]

would anyone on here trade their life for that of someone who is one of those "freeloaders?" A free phone, emergency room healthcare, a free house in the shittiest of neighborhoods, free food at the grocery store in that same neighborhood, public schools that are, in essence, a demilitarized zone.

 

go for it.

 

No I wouldnt that why I made the choices that I did in order to best assure that I wouldnt be where they are.

[kshymkiw83]

I would argue that many CEO's justify their pay grade by the creation of wealth and market growth they build as leaders... You cant tell me Steve Jobs wasn't worth EVERY penny...as just one example. Or Lucas, or Mullaly, or intels CEO ect. There are out liners to all rules of thumb, think bell curve.

 

However to say "CEOS" don't deserve this and that, I would argue you cant pay the good ones enough.

 

To be fair - Steve Jobs paid himself only in stock. His Corporate Salary was 0$.

 

This was a tactic made popular by a guy name Lee Iacocca who SAVED Daimler-Chrysler in the 70's and 80's. This is something I personally think all CEO's SHOULD do..... Put your money behind the company you lead. If the company fails - you fail. If the company succeeds - you make Millions or Billions.

[Brandon]

I read that chart to be talking about accumulated wealth not income. The two are very different. I find that chart with the percentages worthless without the second axis showing the amounts. Plus how do you think age would factor in givin the large sample of boomers that have there retirement funds? All I see is some skewed liberal bullshit

 

I was warming my fingers to type a similar message. There is a HUGE divide in wealth and income, they are in fact related yes, but the same not in any manner.

 

The issue here is statisticians can make you see what they want you to see.

 

Yes there is a significant amount of wealth at the "top" however that distribution seems like propaganda. And the sad part is there really is no "non partisan" org's out there that would not screw the data in some favor.

 

I will say though, my wife and I are about to have a child in May, and she would like to stay home with the child. I believe that while "raising your" kid is great and we will, she will need to go back to work as a teacher. The lost income will change our wealth model significantly and not allow us to help our child's life in the long run and help create the stability of retirement and wealth over the long haul. I know many would argue that this time spent working vs being with a child is semi selfish from a monetary perspective however dropping lets say 55k a year out of income (3/4's of a year of work for teachers) over ten years is 550,000 dollars... We could easily just make do and live with out this income, however if we choose to "buckle down" and SAVE, holy shit SAVE this money we could easily in 20 years (after the ten so 30) have say... 750k to 1 million to have in a "kitty" at age 60-65... and no matter who I would argue with, would have raised our child to see success and life properly. Just my opinion I guess...

[TTQ B4U]

Tim, why are no scholarships offered to the north school. $2800 a year for a private education is low, St Francis Desales is $8275 if you are Catholic. Columbus Academy was $20,000 for grades 9-12 SY 2011.

 

Scholarships are typically created based upon criteria, which reflect the values and purposes of the donor or organization. Perhaps their community sees no purpose as they already have what it is they are looking for within their own institution. Love to hear your thoughts on your questions, but I think I know where you're trying to go with it. I'll somewhat put the ball in motion for you to swing at.

 

If the people in the area which the schools serves (clearly not the south side) but rather the north, and they are under full enrollment and graduating 100% already, why would they add more kids to the mix? Personally, I don't see them having a need to offer any.

 

Again, the kids on the south side aren't applying themselves in droves. Those that are graduating and doing well such as the last girl mentioned, congratulations to her. The South side community needs to focus on getting their numbers up to par vs whining about no scholarships being offered by the other school up north. FOCUS on their own damn community. It's what THEY Do for themselves FIRST, NOT what others are or are not doing TO THEM. Like it or not, in this story, there are two DIFFERENT Communities and that's life.

 

Distance and travel times, etc. are how neighborhoods all over area set up. My kids don't go but 2-3 miles if that to go to school. I have zero interest in getting my son a scholarship at some school in Upper Arlington or Bexley, etc. He's doing great right where he is and I don't feel I'm entitled to or that anyone owes me or my son such a scholarship opportunity.

 

I keep going back to this lady in your video who has NEVER had a bank account. Mistake #1 she made her entire life is NOT PAYING HERSELF FIRST. When I was 13 and worked under the table for peanuts, my dad took me to the bank and opened me an account. I LEARNED to pay myself first. When I left for OSU in 1988, I had nearly $20k in that account of MY OWN EARNED money. Discipline. She can afford to put even $5 week aside. $10 if she ate less and lost about 150lbs.

Edited October 31, 2013 by TTQ B4U

[Brandon]

Not a bad thing at all, but it does put you in the same boat as Benjamin, so be careful throwing stones at him for what he believes. :-)

 

 

 

 

I am hoping that more folks respond to my last question, because that is really at the heart of the matter. Sadly, CR's appetite for discussion like this wanes quickly after the rhetoric is all expended. That happened right away in this thread.

 

How are you not and idealist DJ? I mean I know you're a smart guy, but you are idealistic as well.

 

To answer your question...Poverty defined by the world bank here http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTPOVERTY/EXTPA/0,,contentMDK:20202198~menuPK:435055~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:430367,00.html would do some justice for CR members. Studied this in school, I am so smrt...wait...

 

However to look at poverty vs poor in America. There is no way to tax poverty into poor, and or poor in to middle class, ect ect ect... It doesn't work, history does a good job modeling this... However what I dislike or frankly hate is poor "mindsets"... The poor often are the fringe, the fringe of making the next step and more times then not in my idealist mentality they seem to choose not to, by choice and on occasion by restrictions. Typically low trained, low skilled workers, which is a big problem in America are disadvantaged (however the lack of workers willing to get dirty and work in America is a completely different issue, you cant find enough brick layers, framers, carpenters, tile layers ect right now, ALL jobs that pay those "college grad" wages...But you have to want to work for it). The human genome produces both ends of the spectrum so you need work with the spectrum. As wealth and technology and skills trades grow rapidly, and phase out low skilled low trained work this is where you get the dispersion. Fixing the poor is a much better solution in my opinion. Poverty is bad, it exists, and frankly it ALWAYS will... Look at Africa and India as some case studies...How much MONEY is invested for...the results they are getting. I am not saying let poverty be and ignore it, I am saying target the poor, fix them...Then move down the line so they do not become poverty.

[Orion]

How are you not and idealist DJ? I mean I know you're a smart guy, but you are idealistic as well.

 

I don't think I said or even implied that I wasn't one. I am DEFINITELY an idealist, and self aware about it.

 

I actually like what you are saying here, Brandon. You have some good points.

 

I freaking paid out nearly 37% of my gross to bullshit waste of my money taxes and crap that doesn't help me support my family this month.

 

What did the 37% go to? Is that the sum of ALL your taxes paid out? It would be interesting to see what the actual breakdown of one persons taxes went towards. Like, how much was for schools, how much went to emergency services, etc. Is that something that we can find anywhere?

[Jewtoys]

would anyone on here trade their life for that of someone who is one of those "freeloaders?" A free phone, emergency room healthcare, a free house in the shittiest of neighborhoods, free food at the grocery store in that same neighborhood, public schools that are, in essence, a demilitarized zone.

 

go for it.

 

 

 

Nope

 

I also don't want to support a few of them a year either

[TTQ B4U]

Like, how much was for schools, how much went to emergency services, etc. Is that something that we can find anywhere?

 

Don't know, I'm sure there is. I just know that I pay a shit-ton of taxes and know that it's being mis-managed worse every day and I'm tired of working smarter and being taxed more on the money we earn and in turn having more entitlements being created or the existing ones being expanded to soak up more of what my family EARNS.

[TTQ B4U]

keep bitching about poor people getting $1500 in food stamps when conservative rural America receives $20k on average in "welfare" in this area of Louisiana.

 

I don't know enough about Farm Subsidies to have an opinion, but what I do know is those getting such money are running successful businesses and providing for not only their family but many others in the form of jobs and payroll. $20k average isn't bad vs $1,500 subsidies that don't generate work, provide for others and are in many cases supporting families that are riddled with bad decisions and low skills.

 

If it's my money, I know where I'd invest it.....with those that are proving they have the skill and will to make a difference.

[coltboostin]

Speaking of reality checks....

 

How much in taxes do you think are collected from the "middle class" annually?

and How much in taxes do you think are collected from "the wealthy" and corporations annually?

 

30%

 

Maybe 40%, but if you knwo what to do with your money 20-30%

 

Does anyone have stats on this?

 

 

People like to throw the poor under the bus, but they HAVE to be DEALT with. For everyone that shames welfare, Medicare, and other government assistance programs, I have not seen one viable way to fix the problem. There WILL be poor people in any society- and the handling of them is a key question to the health of the society as a whole. When you don’t property maintain the poor is when you turn into a Iraq, a Turkey....ect. I am working with a guy right now who has 540k in w2 income YTD, and has paid some 110k in taxes. He himself admitted to me he thinks he should be taxed more, and after his write-offs will receive a 5 digit tax return.

 

It is what it is. It’s nice if you can motivate people to work, but

 

1) You can’t "teach" motivation

 

2) There are not enough jobs for every employable unworking individual. Full employment is not possible in this country, not even close

 

My question- to those who think the top 10% should not e taxed any more-

 

1)What do you think they really pay now-less write offs, not including fringe benefits, not including money that goes untaxed into offshore account?

2) What do you think is a “fair” tax amount for the top 10%?

[jeffro]

http://www.livememe.com/uy7wtnl.jpg

[buelliganx1]

2) What do you think is a “fair” tax amount for the top 10%?

 

I think what would be "fair" is for everyone to be taxed at the same rate. That would free up income for people to donate to charities if they choose to do so and I believe that people would if they had the ability. This would also enable people to donate to charities that actually help people and not donate to charities that just hand out money to make you feel better. As it stands now really a tax is just a cut of your pay that the government is taking in order to give it to the charities that they choose. Actually here's an idea instead of taxes require that I donate at least say 10% of my earnings to charity, let me choose where my money goes. I'm willing to bet you would see a whole lot more accountability for where the money goes if people had the choice to not give you money if you weren't producing results.

The government has a bad habit of just handing out blank checks and not asking for or expecting an explanation for where that money goes.

I read Lee Iaccoca's biography and when he took over Chrysler either he took a government handout or Chrysler had taken one before he was involved with them but he turned the company around and made a profit. IIRC he personally handed a check to President Reagan paying the government back and he said he had to laugh because the government didnt know what to do with the check. They had never had anyone pay them back before. That is a problem.

[Green Bastard]

I think the government should do what Roosevelt did in the 30's (to pull us out of a depression), anyone who wants to work, give them a job. Even if its the most bullshit job on earth, at least your earning money. For those who don't want to work, well then they don't need government assistance. I know it would be hard to employ that many people but I'm sure something can be found for them to do, like picking up trash on the side of the road or something. Make them do the jobs nobody else wants to do and maybe it will motivate them to find another job where they don't have to depend on the government to pay them. Another plus to this idea would be that everyone (who took the job) would have to pay taxes, because its work, not a handout. So, in my opinion, America needs to quit being so lazy. I understand the purpose of welfare and all (it was to help those in need to get back on their feet, not as a handout for leeches of society), but it has been abused for far too long now.